3.5 swap questions - Page 2

**Mike Diaz** · 11-09-06, 12:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whats77inaname

1) Is the car starving for fuel at any point?
2) How steep is the drop off after 5200rpms?
3) SAFC coming?

In comparing your numbers and Christian's numbers, it tells me what I needed to verify: with an RL motor, and a few mods, it is possible to have a mid 14 sec. Legend, which is my goal.

Mike, I know you don't have headers. Do you have an exhaust? Any other mods besides the air intake?

My car is more or less dumping fuel. My goal, through tuning, will be to have my air fuel ratio between 13:1 and 14:1 through the entire powerband. The drop off after 5200 isn't dramatic at all, just a slow decline, I'll post the scans tomorrow.
SAFC is installed, but I really didn't want to do any tuning until headers, y pipe, chip, and cams, and adjustable fuel pressure regulator are installed. I didn't want to waste either of our times by sitting there and messing with the AFC when this is the last time I plan on driving it until the rest of the engine mods are done.

I don't have any doubt I'm in 14's, but I can't verify this until I get on the track.

My mods:
2003 3.5L RL Block
2001 3.5L RL Heads (ported and gasket matched)
2001 3.5L RL Intake Manifold (gutted, ported, polished and gasket matched)
2001 3.5L RL Exhaust Manifolds (ported and polished, and gasket matched)
Hayame Exhaust, custom 2.5" from the Y pipe back to the muffler
Apex'i S-AFC II
Throttle Body Coolant Bypass
EGR Valve Block
RangerJoe CAI with K&N Filter
Walbro 255 Fuel pump

Kenso · 11-09-06, 01:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike Diaz

Ken, can you look up to see why the 02-04 RL engines had more horsepower and torque than the 96-01 engines? I'm wondering if they did anything to the heads or cams to get that extra push.

All the differences are external changes-ecu programming, better flowing intake tubing, better flowing muffler-according to Acura. Supposedly the ecu uses a more aggressive ignition timing map, I would guess that's where a lot of the gains came from.

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrkeith

Ken--have you swapped yet?
k.

Nope, I just haven't had any time for the coupe lately, it just sits in my shop 99% of the time. I have everything planned out as far as how I would go about it, maybe I'll work on it next spring since I don't have to daily drive the car now. We need to do yours, an auto 3.5 coupe would be nice.

whats77inaname · 11-09-06, 02:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike Diaz

My car is more or less dumping fuel. My goal, through tuning, will be to have my air fuel ratio between 13:1 and 14:1 through the entire powerband. The drop off after 5200 isn't dramatic at all, just a slow decline, I'll post the scans tomorrow.
SAFC is installed, but I really didn't want to do any tuning until headers, y pipe, chip, and cams, and adjustable fuel pressure regulator are installed. I didn't want to waste either of our times by sitting there and messing with the AFC when this is the last time I plan on driving it until the rest of the engine mods are done.

I don't have any doubt I'm in 14's, but I can't verify this until I get on the track.

My mods:
2003 3.5L RL Block
2001 3.5L RL Heads (ported and gasket matched)
2001 3.5L RL Intake Manifold (gutted, ported, polished and gasket matched)
2001 3.5L RL Exhaust Manifolds (ported and polished, and gasket matched)
Hayame Exhaust, custom 2.5" from the Y pipe back to the muffler
Apex'i S-AFC II
Throttle Body Coolant Bypass
EGR Valve Block
RangerJoe CAI with K&N Filter
Walbro 255 Fuel pump

Thanks for the information, Mike. I appreciate it.

*Dv8* · 11-09-06, 03:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dv8

am i allowed to make a guess?

185WHP
210LBFT

~Dv8

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike Diaz

From my PM to Christian:

max power = 187.64
max torque = 218.37

You got to give it to me, do i know Legends or what?

Mike's here was my first 3.5 dyno, without headers or cams

This is one i just had printed to show the comparrison of the before(with headers) and after web cams regrind:

My Cam regrinds are a goldmine. They completley changed the characteristics of the enignes power and powerband. You think you like the Tq you feel now?? wait until you try and drag race, it sucks. Better yet wait until you swap some TQ for HP with cams, you will be wishing you did it yesterday. Peak gain of 26WHP!

Diaz,
Stock Y pipe?

If your not going the route of TYPE II parts in the RL heads, then i suggest the RL cams be reground the best possible. You can point webcams in the direction of the TYPE II regrind as a model but you would be getting into uncharted water since no ones done a regrind on those, nor does anyone know what the RL valvetrain can rev to. I rev my Type 2 to about 6900 everytime i floor it which is always, and so far its cool. I hear of others passing 7k. Dont know if the RL can do the same.

Great job at getting this dyno done, its awesome to have a baseline and numbers for everyone to compare too.

As of today, I officially crown the 3.5 Block swap the best Legend modification, hands down.

~Dv8

whats77inaname · 11-09-06, 08:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dv8

You got to give it to me, do i know Legends or what?

My Cam regrinds are a goldmine. They completley changed the characteristics of the enignes power and powerband. You think you like the Tq you feel now?? wait until you try and drag race, it sucks. Better yet wait until you swap some TQ for HP with cams, you will be wishing you did it yesterday. Peak gain of 26WHP!

Diaz,
Stock Y pipe?

If your not going the route of TYPE II parts in the RL heads, then i suggest the RL cams be reground the best possible. You can point webcams in the direction of the TYPE II regrind as a model but you would be getting into uncharted water since no ones done a regrind on those, nor does anyone know what the RL valvetrain can rev to. I rev my Type 2 to about 6900 everytime i floor it which is always, and so far its cool. I hear of others passing 7k. Dont know if the RL can do the same.

Great job at getting this dyno done, its awesome to have a baseline and numbers for everyone to compare too.

As of today, I officially crown the 3.5 Block swap the best Legend modification, hands down.

~Dv8

There are a lot of mitigating circumstances that come into play:
1) I've been watching the webcam regrind thread by Buzzard, and from what I understand, your cams are an anomaly. Until they can start getting consistent regrinds, I'll have to debate sending my cams to them for grinding purposes.
2) I'm also watching out to identify the point at which point this car becomes a money pit. I have $3200 in for the purchase price, $1200 for a long block, about another $1800 for rims and tires, w/body work and a paint job. That's not counting the close to $2000 I have in parts sitting in the garage. Then there's the stereo equipment, and the leather that will have to be replaced, and the sweat equity. So, I'd say that I have close to $10k in this car when it is all said and done. At some point, I'm going to draw the line, b/c the car's not appreciating in value.
3) Does the RL use premium only, too?

*Dv8* · 11-09-06, 11:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whats77inaname

There are a lot of mitigating circumstances that come into play:
1) I've been watching the webcam regrind thread by Buzzard, and from what I understand, your cams are an anomaly. Until they can start getting consistent regrinds, I'll have to debate sending my cams to them for grinding purposes.
2) I'm also watching out to identify the point at which point this car becomes a money pit. I have $3200 in for the purchase price, $1200 for a long block, about another $1800 for rims and tires, w/a body work and a paint job. That's not counting the close to $2000 I have in parts and stereo equipment. Then there's the stereo equipment, and the leather that will have to be replaced, and the sweat equity. So, I'd say that I have close to $10k in this car when it is all said and done. At some point, I'm going to draw the line, b/c the car's not appreciating in value.
3) Does the RL use premium only, too?

If you building a engine like this, it only takes premium.

Kenso has Webcams,forevalegend has them a well. The only person ive heard of having problems is Chris. Are you going to really give me the satisfaction of calling mine an anomaly?

~Dv8

**Mike Diaz** · 11-09-06, 07:13 PM

oh, and yes, stock, sucky, small, crappy y-pipe

whats77inaname · 11-09-06, 08:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dv8

If you building a engine like this, it only takes premium.

Kenso has Webcams,forevalegend has them a well. The only person ive heard of having problems is Chris. Are you going to really give me the satisfaction of calling mine an anomaly?

~Dv8

*lol* You're the only one that has a before and after dyno of your cams, so until I see what the other 2 say, it's really a hard call to make.

**Mike Diaz** · 11-09-06, 08:39 PM

I'll have the cams after christmas, but my dyno won't be totally acurate since I'll have the headers and chip installed too.

*Dv8* · 11-09-06, 08:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whats77inaname

*lol* You're the only one that has a before and after dyno of your cams, so until I see what the other 2 say, it's really a hard call to make.

Not true, Kenso did it too.

Before Cams:
New dyno results-216.7 hp

After Cams:
Web cams installed/dynoed 224.6whp

We cant stop talking about how its changed our freeway driving habits

~Dv8

whats77inaname · 11-09-06, 08:56 PM

Ah, THANK YOU. I had forgotten about that thread

I think I even commented on it at the time. Lessee, I have a set of Type II heads in the garage, a 3.5 RL long block that I'll be picking up in the next week or so. Guess this means I'll have to sell my pulleys

I'm going to have to reread your thread on how you hacked up your intake manifold so I can determine which route to take:

1) Complete RL swap
-or-
2) a DV8'ed build w/a twist or 2

Kenso · 11-09-06, 11:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike Diaz

oh, and yes, stock, sucky, small, crappy y-pipe

Getting rid of that will help a lot, even the stock RL y-pipe is a good deal bigger than the Type 1 y-pipe.

**Mike Diaz** · 11-09-06, 11:48 PM

I'm trying to hold out for the Stromung Y pipe and headers. If they don't produce by new year's, I'm going with the OBX. My air flow is terrible on the exhaust side. It has so much power down low, and feels like it's struggling over 5000 RPM.

*Dv8* · 11-10-06, 02:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike Diaz

I'm trying to hold out for the Stromung Y pipe and headers. If they don't produce by new year's, I'm going with the OBX. My air flow is terrible on the exhaust side. It has so much power down low, and feels like it's struggling over 5000 RPM.

While this is true about the whole exhaust its the nature of the stock cams that dont produce enough lift and duration of the exahsut valves to let out spent gasses. You can quote me on that.

With headers, Y pipe, chip, and cams you will have a whole new beast and never look back, especially after 4000RPM.

Not sure what Telions take on this is but id consider sending off my bayou stage 2 5spd chip to him so he could copy it for you and himself. If you two would split the cost of priority mail, insured to and from. I woulndt mind a copy for the trouble either. Of corse theres the whole DOA thing, but im sure we'd all be very careful as its my current driving chip.

Im sure it would help out telions cause too.

Let me know.

~Dv8

**Mike Diaz** · 11-10-06, 09:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dv8

While this is true about the whole exhaust its the nature of the stock cams that dont produce enough lift and duration of the exahsut valves to let out spent gasses. You can quote me on that.

With headers, Y pipe, chip, and cams you will have a whole new beast and never look back, especially after 4000RPM.

Not sure what Telions take on this is but id consider sending off my bayou stage 2 5spd chip to him so he could copy it for you and himself. If you two would split the cost of priority mail, insured to and from. I woulndt mind a copy for the trouble either. Of corse theres the whole DOA thing, but im sure we'd all be very careful as its my current driving chip.

Im sure it would help out telions cause too.

Let me know.

~Dv8

I PM'd him about this. I'd be willing to pay the shipping cost and pay him for the work to get a copy of your chip.

11-09-06, 07:13 PM	#22 (permalink)
Mike Diaz WHAAAAAH! Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: N Canton, Ohio Posts: 10,987 Car 1: 3.5L 1991 LS Coupe 5 Spd Blk/Blk Car 2: 1994 Civic EG Hatch Car 3: 03 Honda TRX400EX iTrader: (2)	oh, and yes, stock, sucky, small, crappy y-pipe __________________ 2nd Gen FAQ \| Newbie FAQ \| Bleeding Coolant DIY \| Manual Trans Flush DIY 3.5L DIY \| Crank-No Start Diagnosis \| How I built My Legend

11-09-06, 08:39 PM	#24 (permalink)
Mike Diaz WHAAAAAH! Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: N Canton, Ohio Posts: 10,987 Car 1: 3.5L 1991 LS Coupe 5 Spd Blk/Blk Car 2: 1994 Civic EG Hatch Car 3: 03 Honda TRX400EX iTrader: (2)	I'll have the cams after christmas, but my dyno won't be totally acurate since I'll have the headers and chip installed too. __________________ 2nd Gen FAQ \| Newbie FAQ \| Bleeding Coolant DIY \| Manual Trans Flush DIY 3.5L DIY \| Crank-No Start Diagnosis \| How I built My Legend

11-09-06, 11:48 PM	#28 (permalink)
Mike Diaz WHAAAAAH! Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: N Canton, Ohio Posts: 10,987 Car 1: 3.5L 1991 LS Coupe 5 Spd Blk/Blk Car 2: 1994 Civic EG Hatch Car 3: 03 Honda TRX400EX iTrader: (2)	I'm trying to hold out for the Stromung Y pipe and headers. If they don't produce by new year's, I'm going with the OBX. My air flow is terrible on the exhaust side. It has so much power down low, and feels like it's struggling over 5000 RPM. __________________ 2nd Gen FAQ \| Newbie FAQ \| Bleeding Coolant DIY \| Manual Trans Flush DIY 3.5L DIY \| Crank-No Start Diagnosis \| How I built My Legend

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11-09-06, 08:56 PM	#26 (permalink)
whats77inaname Renaissance. Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Tx Posts: 3,633 Car 1: 91 5MT LS, 300k Car 2: 91 5MT LS, 183k Car 3: 03 G35 sdn (wife's) iTrader: (22)	Ah, THANK YOU. I had forgotten about that thread I think I even commented on it at the time. Lessee, I have a set of Type II heads in the garage, a 3.5 RL long block that I'll be picking up in the next week or so. Guess this means I'll have to sell my pulleys I'm going to have to reread your thread on how you hacked up your intake manifold so I can determine which route to take: 1) Complete RL swap -or- 2) a DV8'ed build w/a twist or 2