Dv8's Legend (Chronicles and Articles) - Page 55

Mikey851 · 05-11-06, 09:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kotetu

If you factor in 17-20% drivetrain loss, that's between 275 and 285 HP at the crank.

Torque would be around 270-280 as well. Nice NSX killer you got there!

Actually Kotetu, you may be right. At this point DV8 can probably run a very close quarter mile against an NSX while spraying. Only reason it would be close is the difference in weight.

DV8, do you ever plan on going further into the weight reduction side of things?

Kenso · 05-11-06, 11:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mikey851

Actually Kotetu, you may be right. At this point DV8 can probably run a very close quarter mile against an NSX while spraying. Only reason it would be close is the difference in weight.

I would think he could beat a stock 270 hp (3.0L) NSX in the 1/4 pretty easily with nitrous now. He should be in the low, low 14's N/A, ought to break into the 12's on nitrous if he can get traction, etc.

Congrats on the numbers Christian. Looks like the cams worked great for you, I bet the headers are really coming into play now. Can't wait to see the dyno chart, I want to see what the high rpm curve looks like!

*Dv8* · 05-12-06, 01:39 AM

OK. let me get to the details now.

Let me preface by telling everyone that we, including myself dont know shit about this engine, even if some of us know more than others.

At first(when i first did the 3.5) i thought I would have more HP than TQ, because i was using the TYPE II heads, wrong. Cant blame myself for thinking that way, its only natural to think HP over TQ.

No mods I have done since would increase HP over TQ. Mod after mod after mod. Dyno after dyno, more TQ than HP. Cool and all but in a FWD setup it kind of sucks. Just as i'm getting used to the whole reversal of power. These Web Camshafts change everything!
Now im making more HP than TQ and in some cases equal power. MY TQ and HP wasnt seperated by a few ponies we're talking 12-15 difference. Well guess what folks? I dynoed 212WHP in Jan 06' now i peaked out at 228, hows that for a gain?

Kenso, looks as though these cams were indeed the ticket for the 3.5. I actually lost TQ lower but gain it in HP just like i wanted. Crazy to think that the 3.2 reacts so differently to the same mods.

Alright, on to nitrous. It was a go big or go home senario for me. I havent shot Nitrous since July of 04' and that was the last time on the dyno. I havent shot Nitrous since 03' on the track. Since everything was working good, i had the AFC and Wideband set to monitor what went on. I threw in a 55 jet. Yea thats huge! I really dont know what #shot that is but its big. It didnt even reach 3500RPM and it maxed out the injectors and a CEL came on. No worries the car was fine we got off before the A/F wnt to lean. That run was already making 312LBFT at 2800RPM. Of course the HP didnt paint because that comes around 5k.

Moving to a .49 jet gave us the 300WHP and 309LBFT all the way through the RPMS. Great numbers but really not usable because, as i stated before in countless other threads, the ECU was fighting us. It couldnt figure out what to do in the low RPMs with the timing under the Nitrous load. After it figured it out thats where it skyrockets. In the real world the peaks and valleys accociated with the timing advancing and retarding on the dyno graph wouldnt translate well on the strip. You can see peaks and valleys +/- 50WTQ & similar WHP!

We decided to scale it down some more. I tried 47, 45 and 42 jets. Offering the safest A/F and didnt max out the injectors was the #42 jet. the power wasnt to shabby either 280WHP and 280WTQ. The peaks and valleys were decent and deffenitly street useable.

Dynos:

N/A and Good Nitrous shot#42 jet

Bigger nitrous shot #49 jet

Ask away....

~Dv8

Mikey851 · 05-12-06, 02:24 AM

On the #42 jet it looks to be pretty smooth; almost an ideal powercurve for drag strip use.

You're definately right, management is your next needed mod.

*Dv8* · 05-12-06, 02:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mikey851

On the #42 jet it looks to be pretty smooth; almost an ideal powercurve for drag strip use.

You're definately right, management is your next needed mod.

Told you so

tnelson · 05-12-06, 02:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mikey851

On the #42 jet it looks to be pretty smooth; almost an ideal powercurve for drag strip use.

You're definately right, management is your next needed mod.

I think we all know that........I think he could tune it out to the full 310 at least all the time.

Cole Austin · 05-12-06, 05:26 AM

wow that’s insane the different displacements showed different results with the cams. I remember you always had more tq than hp and you always said that you just had to deal with it haha I'm glad to see you can now manage that. You are the most individual researcher of these
engines I have ever seen, great job man you set level for everybody else to compete against.

haha I'm a little drunk by the way

Mikey851 · 05-12-06, 12:11 PM

Cole, I'm willing to bet it's not the different displacement that produces these different numbers, it's where that displacement comes from. I'm sure you know that the C35 has a greater stroke than the C32 by 5 mm. This greater stroke provides increased rod angularity, and it is always bound to create more torque. Another byproduct of this added stroke is the effect on a cylinders ability to pump air into the cylinder. It gives it the ability to suck air into the cylinder with extreme efficiency at low rpm but at high rpm it hinders this ability. Therefore, DV8's cam increased lift and duration, which made up for this difference in the C32 and C35 which in essence allowed it to "breathe" better at or around the powerband, consequently shifted the torque curve to match. That led to a more equal production of power. It's hard to explain like this but you've seen it now first hand, so it sort of explained itself.

kotetu · 05-12-06, 01:33 PM

DV8, do you have the specs of the cams that were made for you, or if we want them made do we just say "I want the DV8 spec cams for G2 Legends."?

*Dv8* · 05-12-06, 01:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kotetu

DV8, do you have the specs of the cams that were made for you, or if we want them made do we just say "I want the DV8 spec cams for G2 Legends."?

Grind number is 543 for the intake and 410 for the exhaust if anyone is interested in having a set of their own. You will have to send your stock in. These numbers are off stock TYPE II cams and modified TYPE II cams. So RL and TYPE I need not apply.

Stock:

Intake cam lift:249
Duration @50 212

Exhaust cam lift:233
duration @50 209

Web Cam Regrind:

Intake cam lift:252
Duration @50 218

Exhaust cam lift:242
duration @50 216

*Dv8* · 05-12-06, 01:47 PM

Here is the break down from Jan 06' dyno vs. May 06' dyno

RPM
Old dyno-new dyno= results

N/A WHP

3k
109-100= -9
3.5k
134-125= -9
4k
162-154= -8
4.5k
189-186= -3
5k
204-208= +4
5.5k
212-223= +11
6k
200-224= +24
6.5k
192-218 = +26

Ave. loss = -7.25
Ave. gain = +16.25

N/A WTQ

3k
193-176= -17
3.5k
200-186= -16
4k
214-202= -12
4.5
221-220= -1
5k
215-218= +3
5.5k
204-211= +7
6k
175-198= +23
6.5
154-176= +22

Ave. loss= -11.5
Ave. gain= +13.75

~Dv8

RangerJoe · 05-12-06, 03:40 PM

Do you think they can make these cams out of type 1 cams?

I seem to have a set just chillin.

nice numbers by the way.

LS92Sedan · 05-12-06, 04:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RangerJoe

Do you think they can make these cams out of type 1 cams?

I seem to have a set just chillin.

nice numbers by the way.

Im interested in checking out the same thing, I have a ton of spare Type I stuff among them is another spare motor, and I have the lash adjuster etc to send as well, DV8 said they didnt charge him for the add weld on his but we'd have to pay extra for the add weld. I wanted to see if they could add weld them to the specs DV8 posted but Im unsure of the differences in the base circles of both cams, but Id be interested to see what can be done with the Type I cams as well, Id be willing to send mine in, if I dont use mine since I have the Type II now I could always just sell em to a forum member lookin for Type I cams.

DSL · 05-12-06, 05:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dv8

Here is the break down from Jan 06' dyno vs. May 06' dyno

RPM
Old dyno-new dyno= results

N/A WHP

3k
109-100= -9
3.5k
134-125= -9
4k
162-154= -8
4.5k
189-186= -3
5k
204-208= +4
5.5k
212-223= +11
6k
200-224= +24
6.5k
192-218 = +26

Ave. loss = -7.25
Ave. gain = +16.25

N/A WTQ

3k
193-176= -17
3.5k
200-186= -16
4k
214-202= -12
4.5
221-220= -1
5k
215-218= +3
5.5k
204-211= +7
6k
175-198= +23
6.5
154-176= +22

Ave. loss= -11.5
Ave. gain= +13.75

~Dv8

so... if you were selling these cams and were making an ad for them.. i guess you can say that the cams add 26hp and 23tq....

LS92Sedan · 05-12-06, 05:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DSL

so... if you were selling these cams and were making an ad for them.. i guess you can say that the cams add 26hp and 23tq....

on his hybrid 3.5, our 3.2's gain a lil less.

05-12-06, 01:39 AM	#813 (permalink)
Dv8 Banned Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: CA Posts: 4,886 Car 1: 91' 3.5lt Extreme DV8ED Hybrid 6spd Car 2: 03' G35c Blk on Blk Car 3: 92'Yukon/06'Trailer iTrader: (11)	OK. let me get to the details now. Let me preface by telling everyone that we, including myself dont know shit about this engine, even if some of us know more than others. At first(when i first did the 3.5) i thought I would have more HP than TQ, because i was using the TYPE II heads, wrong. Cant blame myself for thinking that way, its only natural to think HP over TQ. No mods I have done since would increase HP over TQ. Mod after mod after mod. Dyno after dyno, more TQ than HP. Cool and all but in a FWD setup it kind of sucks. Just as i'm getting used to the whole reversal of power. These Web Camshafts change everything! Now im making more HP than TQ and in some cases equal power. MY TQ and HP wasnt seperated by a few ponies we're talking 12-15 difference. Well guess what folks? I dynoed 212WHP in Jan 06' now i peaked out at 228, hows that for a gain? Kenso, looks as though these cams were indeed the ticket for the 3.5. I actually lost TQ lower but gain it in HP just like i wanted. Crazy to think that the 3.2 reacts so differently to the same mods. Alright, on to nitrous. It was a go big or go home senario for me. I havent shot Nitrous since July of 04' and that was the last time on the dyno. I havent shot Nitrous since 03' on the track. Since everything was working good, i had the AFC and Wideband set to monitor what went on. I threw in a 55 jet. Yea thats huge! I really dont know what #shot that is but its big. It didnt even reach 3500RPM and it maxed out the injectors and a CEL came on. No worries the car was fine we got off before the A/F wnt to lean. That run was already making 312LBFT at 2800RPM. Of course the HP didnt paint because that comes around 5k. Moving to a .49 jet gave us the 300WHP and 309LBFT all the way through the RPMS. Great numbers but really not usable because, as i stated before in countless other threads, the ECU was fighting us. It couldnt figure out what to do in the low RPMs with the timing under the Nitrous load. After it figured it out thats where it skyrockets. In the real world the peaks and valleys accociated with the timing advancing and retarding on the dyno graph wouldnt translate well on the strip. You can see peaks and valleys +/- 50WTQ & similar WHP! We decided to scale it down some more. I tried 47, 45 and 42 jets. Offering the safest A/F and didnt max out the injectors was the #42 jet. the power wasnt to shabby either 280WHP and 280WTQ. The peaks and valleys were decent and deffenitly street useable. Dynos: N/A and Good Nitrous shot#42 jet Bigger nitrous shot #49 jet Ask away.... ~Dv8 __________________ AEM EMS Powered. 9 yrs and counting. Results, Where are yours? 12.953@107.865MPH 95 deg. Jun. 07' 3.5 6spd-#55 jet Nitrous 316WHP@5500RPM 345Lb-ft@4100RPM NOS 06-07'N/A 234WHP@5700RPM 229lb-ft@4600RPM 06-07' 13.782@99.135MPH N/A 95 deg. Jun 07' 03' G35c Auto Vortech Supercharged pshhhh 311WHP 274WTQ13.1@102MPH-on the brakes(108MPH) Hand fabbed Go-Kart 18whp 24wtq 8 page spread Honda Tuning 09-06' issue PM or Email only. Respect that! My Legends Website www.2slik4u.com

05-12-06, 02:24 AM	#814 (permalink)
Mikey851 Registered User Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Houston, Tx Posts: 2,715 Car 1: 1992 Acura Legend LS Coupe iTrader: (0)	On the #42 jet it looks to be pretty smooth; almost an ideal powercurve for drag strip use. You're definately right, management is your next needed mod. __________________ http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c1...Picture076.jpg

05-12-06, 05:26 AM	#817 (permalink)
Cole Austin VIP alllll the way Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Roanoke, Virginia. Attend School @ VCU in Richmond Posts: 4,587 Car 1: 92 L Rosewood Brown Sedan iTrader: (0)	wow that’s insane the different displacements showed different results with the cams. I remember you always had more tq than hp and you always said that you just had to deal with it haha I'm glad to see you can now manage that. You are the most individual researcher of these engines I have ever seen, great job man you set level for everybody else to compete against. haha I'm a little drunk by the way __________________ http://www.directimagehost.com/is.ph...ial-mod-si.jpg Throttle Body Coolant Bypass General F.A.Q. 2nd Generation F.A.Q. People I trust to buy items from: bboarder711 \| legendarysleeper \| Chauffeur First \| SmartJay28

05-12-06, 12:11 PM	#818 (permalink)
Mikey851 Registered User Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Houston, Tx Posts: 2,715 Car 1: 1992 Acura Legend LS Coupe iTrader: (0)	Cole, I'm willing to bet it's not the different displacement that produces these different numbers, it's where that displacement comes from. I'm sure you know that the C35 has a greater stroke than the C32 by 5 mm. This greater stroke provides increased rod angularity, and it is always bound to create more torque. Another byproduct of this added stroke is the effect on a cylinders ability to pump air into the cylinder. It gives it the ability to suck air into the cylinder with extreme efficiency at low rpm but at high rpm it hinders this ability. Therefore, DV8's cam increased lift and duration, which made up for this difference in the C32 and C35 which in essence allowed it to "breathe" better at or around the powerband, consequently shifted the torque curve to match. That led to a more equal production of power. It's hard to explain like this but you've seen it now first hand, so it sort of explained itself. __________________ http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c1...Picture076.jpg Last edited by Mikey851 : 05-12-06 at 01:51 PM.

05-12-06, 01:47 PM	#821 (permalink)
Dv8 Banned Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: CA Posts: 4,886 Car 1: 91' 3.5lt Extreme DV8ED Hybrid 6spd Car 2: 03' G35c Blk on Blk Car 3: 92'Yukon/06'Trailer iTrader: (11)	Here is the break down from Jan 06' dyno vs. May 06' dyno RPM Old dyno-new dyno= results N/A WHP 3k 109-100= -9 3.5k 134-125= -9 4k 162-154= -8 4.5k 189-186= -3 5k 204-208= +4 5.5k 212-223= +11 6k 200-224= +24 6.5k 192-218 = +26 Ave. loss = -7.25 Ave. gain = +16.25 N/A WTQ 3k 193-176= -17 3.5k 200-186= -16 4k 214-202= -12 4.5 221-220= -1 5k 215-218= +3 5.5k 204-211= +7 6k 175-198= +23 6.5 154-176= +22 Ave. loss= -11.5 Ave. gain= +13.75 ~Dv8 __________________ AEM EMS Powered. 9 yrs and counting. Results, Where are yours? 12.953@107.865MPH 95 deg. Jun. 07' 3.5 6spd-#55 jet Nitrous 316WHP@5500RPM 345Lb-ft@4100RPM NOS 06-07'N/A 234WHP@5700RPM 229lb-ft@4600RPM 06-07' 13.782@99.135MPH N/A 95 deg. Jun 07' 03' G35c Auto Vortech Supercharged pshhhh 311WHP 274WTQ13.1@102MPH-on the brakes(108MPH) Hand fabbed Go-Kart 18whp 24wtq 8 page spread Honda Tuning 09-06' issue PM or Email only. Respect that! My Legends Website www.2slik4u.com Last edited by Dv8 : 05-12-06 at 02:16 PM.

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05-12-06, 03:40 PM	#822 (permalink)
RangerJoe werd..... Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Stillwater, Oklahoma Posts: 6,220 Car 1: 92 LS coupe 5spd iTrader: (4)	Do you think they can make these cams out of type 1 cams? I seem to have a set just chillin. nice numbers by the way.