engine management question

Den-man · 03-14-04, 05:00 AM

I'm trying to decide which way to go with engine mangement. I know aem makes a universal ems that costs about 2k- it's windows compatible and supposedly user friendly. I read something on the forum where someone mentioned that there is no base map for the legend, and there is a possibility of engine damage during tuning. I'm guessing the damage would be from running too lean, but does anyone know if there's been any actual experimentation with this aem ems, or is it just heresay. Does anyone think it's worth it, especially if there are plans for high horsepower gains in the future? any thoughts would be appreciated. thanks

Den-man · 03-15-04, 08:29 AM

nobody has any experience with the aem ems?

hotlavaflow · 03-15-04, 08:32 AM

Not as far as I know but what high horsepower gains are we talking about?

Den-man · 03-15-04, 08:52 AM

i'm hoping to get a hold of some aftermarket internals and rebuild the engine from the bottom up. There's somebody working on a set right now, and i'm hoping by next year to get my hands on them. Also all the bolt ons, direct port nos, etc-- but anyway, the only reason i was thinking about doing this is because when i get my type II engine, it's not going to have an ecu with it. I figured i'd just spend some extra cash and be able to program everything myself.

LeoLegendATL · 03-15-04, 03:42 PM

Legend6sp should know, I m sure he'll pop up on this thread sooner or later.

95Legend6Spd · 03-15-04, 11:14 PM

HEY! Well, here's the story:

I had the AEM EMS, but on my Supra - I would not recommend it, and as of right now AEM does not have any plans to offer an AEM EMS with an open terminal (wiring harness input option) to run on a universal application (they're too busy making them for the 5.0 Mustang... what a joke!)

Now, with that said, and you not using the AEM system, you should have some more options. I used to recommend the Greddy E-Manage, until I got more in-depth with mine. It seems that I cannot find the correct jumper settings for a V6 3.2L... It is not a universal application like the Apex'i S-AFC is, so you have to set the jumpers on the internal motherboard in order to activate it to work with certain cars/engines - B18, SR20DET, VG30DETT, VQ35, 3SGTE, 2JZGTE, etc... so that's out...

There is also the PowerHouse Racing MAP ECU - this is what I currently run... it's great, it's simple, and it's efficient. It does not, however, control ignition, only fuel and eliminating your Mass Air/Karmen Vortex meter... this can be great, but Hondas are already MAP-based. This system would be well-suited to the Legend I believe, besides the E-Manage, which doens't work as I mentioned above.

The last option - MoTeC M48 for total engine control... simply badass, fully standalone, and $$ - if you want it all, this is the tool to get (to tune, manage, and grow with your vehicle...)

There is also the S-AFC, but this isn't the end-all-be-all of fuel management, and pails in comparison to the MAP ECU, E-Manage, AEM, and of course the MoTeC...

If you're serious - MAP ECU or M48... with a GOOD WIDEBAND O2 SENSOR AND DATALOGGING CAPABILITY... note the caps.

legend4life · 03-16-04, 04:55 AM

Chris,
Why don't you recommend the AEM EMS?

Den-man,
I did some research for you. I found one of the popular AEM EMS certified/factory trained tuners off the Supra forums, and have been talking to him through e-mail about engine management for a custom Legend turbo setup.

Here is an e-mail reply he sent me:

"
Imran-

The AEM is not only an option for you, it’s arguably the best option. Yes, you’ll have to do a custom wiring install, but you’ll have to do this with any engine management solution for your car. We do custom AEM installations and tuning every week and would be happy to do this for you. Where are you located?

Sean McElderry

TorqueFreaks Inc.

http://www.torquefreaks.com (Service)

http://www.horsepowerfreaks.com (Parts)

Testimonials: http://www.torquefreaks.com/testimonials.html"

I know they also fly out to locations every so often when several people want to get tuned, and they meet up and get them all done together at a dyno.

Hope it helps,
Imran

Den-man · 03-16-04, 07:23 AM

thanks fellas, i really appreciate it- check this link out-- http://www.modacar.com/products/Acura/Legend/MODAECT/

this site says they have one with a universal wiring harness for any efi car, i dunno.

95legend6sp, is there any reason in particular why you don't recommend the aem unit? I'm definitely going to look into the motec one, because like i said, i'm probably going to get a type II engine without the ecu, and i know they're not that easy to come by-- so i may as well get one that i can manage with my laptop- that's the good thing about the aem is that it's meant to be used with windows.

legend4life · 03-16-04, 07:52 AM

Most people say the AEM EMS is one the best options for engine management, it's possible Chris was not recommending it because of the wiring harness issue? I know he knows his stuff though.

Den-man,
If you look at the site you linked, they say the universal wiring harness is available from AEM, not them. Going on what Chris said, and what the AEM tuner told me, it doesn't look like AEM offers that universal wiring harness any longer. He also stated, with ANY engine management system for our cars, we would need a custom wiring harness.

I don't beleive this is something you could properly and safely tune yourself though at least initially, seeing as how there are no base-maps etc available and you would have to start from scratch, I would recommend getting it tuned by a trained AEM tuner. Send an e-mail to Sean at, sean@torquefreaks.com .

I do have a Type II ECU I could hook you up with in the meantime though, shoot me an e-mail at desijigga786@yahoo.com

-Imran

Den-man · 03-16-04, 11:00 AM

I love forums

95Legend6Spd · 03-16-04, 11:53 AM

Guys-

The AEM EMS is a great tool, and my experience with it is extensive, but at the time when I had mine, there was too much going on (talk wise) and not enough backing up (parts/knowledge wise)... AEM left out SEVERAL VERY IMPORTANT variables, and did not tell us Supra owners until it was too late (like me, with a blown tranny...) Now, with the new software, the AEM EMS (v. 1.03) is great, and Sean from HPFREAKS/TQFREAKS is a great guy (I would let him tune my car anyday of the week... he's one of the ONLY people I'd let touch my car...)

If you purchased an AEM EMS, I'd recommend getting several new things to go with it, two being:

GM Map sensor
Wideband O2 sensor

The AEM is excellent for building a working engine map for most vehicles, and the Legend would definitely benefit from it, but just be SURE that you are paying someone extremely COMPETANT to install/tune it... and be sure that it's done with a WIDEBAND... no messing around in the street and "I'll let out when I hear knock..."

If you want some really great help, I'm pretty good at building basemaps for vehicles... I've done several so far; I'll try to get one built for you when you have this thing done... keep me up to date...

Den-man · 03-17-04, 11:29 AM

sounds good, i'll let you guys know what I decide to do (whenever that happens) I gotta get a hold of sean at torquefreaks and get a tuning estimate. I'm going to be at an automotive school in the fall, so free dyno access!!!

legend4life · 03-18-04, 07:53 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Den-man
sounds good, i'll let you guys know what I decide to do (whenever that happens) I gotta get a hold of sean at torquefreaks and get a tuning estimate. I'm going to be at an automotive school in the fall, so free dyno access!!!

Here you go bud:

"Imran-

I charge $750/day plus travel expenses for on site tuning. In your case, since this is a custom wiring job, you should consider shipping your car out to our shop. We have an account with a shipping company that we use for many of our remote customers. The cost to ship your car in a fully enclosed trailer is approximately $1000. We’d complete the work for a price that we agree upon, charge you only $850 for the complete tune with dyno charts, and then you could pick your car up or we can ship it back. If this sounds appealing, let me know and we can set it up. Take care!

Sean McElderry
TorqueFreaks Inc.
http://www.torquefreaks.com (Service)
http://www.horsepowerfreaks.com (Parts)
Testimonials: http://www.torquefreaks.com/testimonials.html"

And I sent you an e-mail back.

-Imran

Den-man · 03-18-04, 08:31 AM

wow, kinda steep, travel expenses and all. Probably worth it though, as long as he gets it right the first time

I definitely wouldnt ship the car off, I'd want to be there the whole time, no question about it. Is he hinting that he wouldnt be able to do the wiring job and tuning in one day? That would be understandable, but it would also make a pretty big difference in my decision. Thanks again for the research Imran.

03-14-04, 05:00 AM	#1 (permalink)
Den-man Registered User Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: philly Posts: 25 Car 1: 1992 silver coupe iTrader: (0)	engine management question I'm trying to decide which way to go with engine mangement. I know aem makes a universal ems that costs about 2k- it's windows compatible and supposedly user friendly. I read something on the forum where someone mentioned that there is no base map for the legend, and there is a possibility of engine damage during tuning. I'm guessing the damage would be from running too lean, but does anyone know if there's been any actual experimentation with this aem ems, or is it just heresay. Does anyone think it's worth it, especially if there are plans for high horsepower gains in the future? any thoughts would be appreciated. thanks

03-15-04, 08:32 AM	#3 (permalink)
hotlavaflow 'hood Garage Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: cough up a lung, where I'm from, Bklyn son Posts: 3,257 Car 1: '91 Twin Turbo 5/6 spd Panda/Type C Car 2: KA24DE-T S13 iTrader: (3)	Not as far as I know but what high horsepower gains are we talking about? __________________ AEM powered Twin Turbo KA7 since Feb'07

03-15-04, 03:42 PM	#5 (permalink)
LeoLegendATL S K / L L Z Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Marietta, GA Posts: 1,153 Car 1: 91 LS coupe (boost coming soon! (or not)) iTrader: (0)	Legend6sp should know, I m sure he'll pop up on this thread sooner or later. __________________ Peace, Legendary Legendz CC LegendaryLegendz.com http://images.snapfish.com/342%3A%3B...449%3A53ot1lsi INSPIRATION

03-15-04, 11:14 PM	#6 (permalink)
95Legend6Spd Pain Machine Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Nashville, TN Posts: 1,817 Car 1: Godzilla: Car 2: Tokyo Car 3: Attack! iTrader: (0)	HEY! Well, here's the story: I had the AEM EMS, but on my Supra - I would not recommend it, and as of right now AEM does not have any plans to offer an AEM EMS with an open terminal (wiring harness input option) to run on a universal application (they're too busy making them for the 5.0 Mustang... what a joke!) Now, with that said, and you not using the AEM system, you should have some more options. I used to recommend the Greddy E-Manage, until I got more in-depth with mine. It seems that I cannot find the correct jumper settings for a V6 3.2L... It is not a universal application like the Apex'i S-AFC is, so you have to set the jumpers on the internal motherboard in order to activate it to work with certain cars/engines - B18, SR20DET, VG30DETT, VQ35, 3SGTE, 2JZGTE, etc... so that's out... There is also the PowerHouse Racing MAP ECU - this is what I currently run... it's great, it's simple, and it's efficient. It does not, however, control ignition, only fuel and eliminating your Mass Air/Karmen Vortex meter... this can be great, but Hondas are already MAP-based. This system would be well-suited to the Legend I believe, besides the E-Manage, which doens't work as I mentioned above. The last option - MoTeC M48 for total engine control... simply badass, fully standalone, and $$ - if you want it all, this is the tool to get (to tune, manage, and grow with your vehicle...) There is also the S-AFC, but this isn't the end-all-be-all of fuel management, and pails in comparison to the MAP ECU, E-Manage, AEM, and of course the MoTeC... If you're serious - MAP ECU or M48... with a GOOD WIDEBAND O2 SENSOR AND DATALOGGING CAPABILITY... note the caps. __________________ *\| Chris M \| 1997 Toyota Supra 6-Speed \| 78GTS* \| 17X10s NT-01s All 4 Corners \| \| Old: 1994 "BoostLogic Catalog" TH400/Single 71GTQ \| Advan \| TRUST \| HKS \| RPS \| \|Previous: 1995 Legend Coupe, 6-Speed 1998-2002\|**

03-16-04, 04:55 AM	#7 (permalink)
legend4life Blk/BlkGS6 Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Buffalo, NY Posts: 1,779 Car 1: '94 Black/Black Legend GS Sedan 6 Speed Car 2: '92 Silver LS Coupe Car 3: '94 Cashmere L Sedan iTrader: (1)	Chris, Why don't you recommend the AEM EMS? Den-man, I did some research for you. I found one of the popular AEM EMS certified/factory trained tuners off the Supra forums, and have been talking to him through e-mail about engine management for a custom Legend turbo setup. Here is an e-mail reply he sent me: " Imran- The AEM is not only an option for you, it’s arguably the best option. Yes, you’ll have to do a custom wiring install, but you’ll have to do this with any engine management solution for your car. We do custom AEM installations and tuning every week and would be happy to do this for you. Where are you located? Sean McElderry TorqueFreaks Inc. http://www.torquefreaks.com (Service) http://www.horsepowerfreaks.com (Parts) Testimonials: http://www.torquefreaks.com/testimonials.html" I know they also fly out to locations every so often when several people want to get tuned, and they meet up and get them all done together at a dyno. Hope it helps, Imran __________________ Black/Black GS 6 speed FS $3800 OBO Lots of mods/parts FS To contact me, e-mail desijigga786@gmail.com

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03-15-04, 08:29 AM	#2 (permalink)
Den-man Registered User Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: philly Posts: 25 Car 1: 1992 silver coupe iTrader: (0)	nobody has any experience with the aem ems?

03-15-04, 08:52 AM	#4 (permalink)
Den-man Registered User Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: philly Posts: 25 Car 1: 1992 silver coupe iTrader: (0)	i'm hoping to get a hold of some aftermarket internals and rebuild the engine from the bottom up. There's somebody working on a set right now, and i'm hoping by next year to get my hands on them. Also all the bolt ons, direct port nos, etc-- but anyway, the only reason i was thinking about doing this is because when i get my type II engine, it's not going to have an ecu with it. I figured i'd just spend some extra cash and be able to program everything myself.

03-16-04, 07:23 AM	#8 (permalink)
Den-man Registered User Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: philly Posts: 25 Car 1: 1992 silver coupe iTrader: (0)	thanks fellas, i really appreciate it- check this link out-- http://www.modacar.com/products/Acura/Legend/MODAECT/ this site says they have one with a universal wiring harness for any efi car, i dunno. 95legend6sp, is there any reason in particular why you don't recommend the aem unit? I'm definitely going to look into the motec one, because like i said, i'm probably going to get a type II engine without the ecu, and i know they're not that easy to come by-- so i may as well get one that i can manage with my laptop- that's the good thing about the aem is that it's meant to be used with windows.

03-16-04, 07:52 AM	#9 (permalink)
legend4life Blk/BlkGS6 Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Buffalo, NY Posts: 1,779 Car 1: '94 Black/Black Legend GS Sedan 6 Speed Car 2: '92 Silver LS Coupe Car 3: '94 Cashmere L Sedan iTrader: (1)	Most people say the AEM EMS is one the best options for engine management, it's possible Chris was not recommending it because of the wiring harness issue? I know he knows his stuff though. Den-man, If you look at the site you linked, they say the universal wiring harness is available from AEM, not them. Going on what Chris said, and what the AEM tuner told me, it doesn't look like AEM offers that universal wiring harness any longer. He also stated, with ANY engine management system for our cars, we would need a custom wiring harness. I don't beleive this is something you could properly and safely tune yourself though at least initially, seeing as how there are no base-maps etc available and you would have to start from scratch, I would recommend getting it tuned by a trained AEM tuner. Send an e-mail to Sean at, sean@torquefreaks.com . I do have a Type II ECU I could hook you up with in the meantime though, shoot me an e-mail at desijigga786@yahoo.com -Imran __________________ Black/Black GS 6 speed FS $3800 OBO Lots of mods/parts FS To contact me, e-mail desijigga786@gmail.com

03-16-04, 11:00 AM	#10 (permalink)
Den-man Registered User Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: philly Posts: 25 Car 1: 1992 silver coupe iTrader: (0)	I love forums

03-16-04, 11:53 AM	#11 (permalink)
95Legend6Spd Pain Machine Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Nashville, TN Posts: 1,817 Car 1: Godzilla: Car 2: Tokyo Car 3: Attack! iTrader: (0)	Guys- The AEM EMS is a great tool, and my experience with it is extensive, but at the time when I had mine, there was too much going on (talk wise) and not enough backing up (parts/knowledge wise)... AEM left out SEVERAL VERY IMPORTANT variables, and did not tell us Supra owners until it was too late (like me, with a blown tranny...) Now, with the new software, the AEM EMS (v. 1.03) is great, and Sean from HPFREAKS/TQFREAKS is a great guy (I would let him tune my car anyday of the week... he's one of the ONLY people I'd let touch my car...) If you purchased an AEM EMS, I'd recommend getting several new things to go with it, two being: GM Map sensor Wideband O2 sensor The AEM is excellent for building a working engine map for most vehicles, and the Legend would definitely benefit from it, but just be SURE that you are paying someone extremely COMPETANT to install/tune it... and be sure that it's done with a WIDEBAND... no messing around in the street and "I'll let out when I hear knock..." If you want some really great help, I'm pretty good at building basemaps for vehicles... I've done several so far; I'll try to get one built for you when you have this thing done... keep me up to date... __________________ *\| Chris M \| 1997 Toyota Supra 6-Speed \| 78GTS* \| 17X10s NT-01s All 4 Corners \| \| Old: 1994 "BoostLogic Catalog" TH400/Single 71GTQ \| Advan \| TRUST \| HKS \| RPS \| \|Previous: 1995 Legend Coupe, 6-Speed 1998-2002\|**

03-17-04, 11:29 AM	#12 (permalink)
Den-man Registered User Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: philly Posts: 25 Car 1: 1992 silver coupe iTrader: (0)	sounds good, i'll let you guys know what I decide to do (whenever that happens) I gotta get a hold of sean at torquefreaks and get a tuning estimate. I'm going to be at an automotive school in the fall, so free dyno access!!!

03-18-04, 08:31 AM	#14 (permalink)
Den-man Registered User Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: philly Posts: 25 Car 1: 1992 silver coupe iTrader: (0)	wow, kinda steep, travel expenses and all. Probably worth it though, as long as he gets it right the first time I definitely wouldnt ship the car off, I'd want to be there the whole time, no question about it. Is he hinting that he wouldnt be able to do the wiring job and tuning in one day? That would be understandable, but it would also make a pretty big difference in my decision. Thanks again for the research Imran.

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