GrumpySteelMan

I figure AC current would actually slow the decomposition of the electrodes at the same voltage (compared to 110vdc). Instead of pulling each component of the electrolyte and the electrode one direction the whole time, it would possibly reduce the reactions. Consider a rechargeable battery. You recharge the battery by reversing the current and using the electricity to push the chemicals inside the battery back to its initial charged state.

I tried the inverter and it worked like a champ, interesting possibilities.

I think he's suggesting using SS 'hurricane' bolts to hold a SS spring in the chamber. I think a washer and nut inside the lid to hold the spring in place would be ideal with the bolt head on the top, threads through into the inside.

Did I figure that right?

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samblaze

Thanks for the clarification. I'm going to pick up a rebuilt alternator for this project ($80 on eBay for the Saab) given that the voltage regulator on my original 22 year old alternator probably has worn brushes! Or would you recommend a standalone inverter instead?

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86 Saab 900S Coupe 5MT
94 Acura Legend GS 6MT
04 Subaru Forester XS A/T

GrumpySteelMan

A SAAB OWNER! I've got a freaking fleet of Volvos, many dead. How do those strange Swedes steal our hearts so?

I won't suggest the inverter just yet, as I have just played with it a little, but I would hop down to the local auto parts store and get your charging system load tested. It's free and they'll be able to say whether your alternator (or battery for that matter) are in spec while still on the car.

Around here we say, "Don't fix what ain't broke." Of course some of us knew our sisters too well, I hear.

People seem to be having fair enough success at 12 volts. If you get your 12v system up and running and then want to try an inverter (assuming I don't have any disasters for tests in the meantime) I'll give/send you one of mine I have laying around...it got replaced with a pair of much larger units. I would explain, but then the truth about what a nerd I am would be out.

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samblaze

At the sisters comment. My Saab, till date, remains my favorite in term of handling. She really does move like she's on rails, and multi-stage dampening in 1986?! She won't win any design contests, has an embarrassing double digit 0-60 time and looks downright ugly next to the Legend but you're right about how she steals my heart every time I drive her! Plus it keeps the dog off the leather in the Legend/Forester and at 30mpg my money in my pocket!

I'm fairly sure the battery (2nd one in 22 years according to service records) and alternator will need upgrading for this project as my voltage is not up to par under heavy load (if the defroster, lights and stereo are on and I use a turn signal voltage drops for a second). I haven't fixed it yet as it runs fine, but for an electrical/charging system based project I would put some TLC into the 12v system.

I might just take you up on the inverter offer at some point down the road, thank you for the generosity! FWIW, in the information age, I believe the time of the nerds has finally come .

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86 Saab 900S Coupe 5MT
94 Acura Legend GS 6MT
04 Subaru Forester XS A/T

manxdr21

Yeah, something like that. I was thinking of using schedule 40 pvc (the higher the schd the thicker the wall and greater psi ratings) either 3"(about 260 psi waterpressure) or 4" (about 220 psi waterpressure). I was thinking of using a glue on cap for the botttom(perminent), but not sure if I would use the same for the top or put on a threaded cap or plug. The SS bolts, I would put the large head on the inside of the cap to hold the springs to the cap and then just use a nut and washer on the outside of the cap to keep it thight and in place, then you could put a wing nut to hold thw wiring down(also available in SS for other type hurricane shutters). The SS plate I was thinking of putting it through the inside of the springs, not sure if I would weld them on there or epoxy, maybe if it's cut just right the the tension of the springs could keep it in place, just figured it would be good to add a bit more surface area and might also help bounce the molecules around jic some get trapped in the middle of the springs. Also I would place a divider between the two poles. I would also use cpvc cement, eventhough it will be used on ordinary pvc. Cpvc cement is a bit more expensive than reg pvc cement, but it's drying time is quicker and it can handle more heat and pressure. Another good idea would be to use that aluminum insulation tape that Mr. Moore used.

MarcD

I have not looked into all this too much, but a guy at work showed me that video last week from FOX news.
I believe the story was more about breaking the molecules of water H20 to it's essential elements and making HHO
This is different from H20 Water injection which been around a long time. The water vapor increases the density of the air/fuel mixture by cooling it and can provide more of a "boost" in power.
Read here:
Water injection (engines - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia)
I think some of the points within this were mentioned above, but in a nutshell, it sounds like an intercooler provides the same results. Plus, i believe you need a carb or throttle body injection to get this to work

GrumpySteelMan

This is what we're talking about. The principle of electrolysis to make hydrogen gas and oxygen.

This is almost totally correct. Water injection gives a boost in power with very high compression, very advanced ignition timing, and boosted cars only. It really only offers clean combustion chambers to stock cars, and offers nothing in regards to fuel economy as far as my understanding reaches.

Totally different principles at work here. You have to heat the air by compressing it to make an intercooler do any good. Otherwise you're taking ambient air and attempting to exchange heat with...more ambient air. Longer piping runs means less Volumetric Efficiency. In short, adding an intercooler to a non-boosted car OR badly incorporating an intercooler into a boosted car COSTS POWER AND FUEL ECONOMY.

The HHO principle should work with any car. Carb, Multipoint EFI, or TBI. I think the major difference is that driving habits and state of tune in the carb'd cars will have a much larger impact on returned fuel economy since there aren't electronics at work behind the scenes maximizing economy through an 02 sensor and closed loop fuel management.

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manxdr21

Went to my local lowes and they did not have SS springs. Gotta ask my aunt if she can get them or my grand father. First I'll try the closest marine shop, then another place that's like 30miles away that is said to have almost anything you want that is SS and at pretty good prices.

whats77inaname

Hmmmmmmmmmmmm.....I was doing some research and came across this.

Hopefully we'll see it on TV in the not too distant future.

GrumpySteelMan

Hardware stores tend to have assortments to springs, etc.

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sr5guy

Just wanted to clarify that its not the water that gives the power, it is the cooling effect that the water has on the intake charge, allowing you to run that advanced timing and high boost without detonation.

-Matt

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The dude with a chip on his shoulder.

Stop asking me to compare my chip with Telion's damnit. Mines better.

samblaze

Hmm, good info. It definitely stretches my grasp of chemistry to its limits. I need to run this by someone with more expertise. Some of his energy bond reformation calculi seem a little off to me. Although he's right about the basic principle of requiring a certain amount of energy to produce energy through electrolysis. Two things I have to consider:

1. The system I am experimenting with would use electrical energy from an extra battery, in turn being charged by a larger alternator, which is drawing its energy from (the now much more efficient) combustion process. The 576kJ output (from plain H20) that he speaks of is about right. But the input energy of 2765 kJ I have to do more research to verify.

2. No mention of electrolysing a catalytic fluid, as opposed to just plain H20. Wouldn't there be a significantly higher yield of monoatomic hydrogen compared to just water? Again this would need to be verified. But the 'blow torch' video would lead me to believe so.

I aways did hate chemistry in school (Physics was my thing)!

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86 Saab 900S Coupe 5MT
94 Acura Legend GS 6MT
04 Subaru Forester XS A/T

manxdr21

I already stated that my grandfather ownes a hardware store and so does my aunt. My other aunt works in a hardware store as well. All have springs but non have SS springs, that's why I stated that I will see if they can be ordered or get them at the marine shop.

BTW no attitude intended, just the facts.

manxdr21

I'm def. mo chemistry major either but what is this:
Quote from the link:
99% of the gasoline does undergo combustion. A 300% gain in efficiency would imply that we are now getting 399% of the theoretically-retrievable energy that the gasoline contains (well, actually more than 399% because we also need to cover the losses from the electrolysis). This is just asinine and Carnot says otherwise. Energy can not be created from nothing -- the gasoline can NOT give more than 100% of what it has.

If i'm not mistaken he's wrong we don't use 99% of our gasoline more like 33%. Also he is not taking into consideration that all cars do not get the best amount of oxygen for combustion due to the fact that our air is only about 1/3 oxygen and with this process you won't only be "injecting" hydrogen, you will also be "injecting" oxygen, making it more efficiant. Can you prob. say over thinking, KISS(keep it simple stupid). The problem is that most people draw up a conclusion before undergoing tests and having any concrete evidence.

GrumpySteelMan