HHO Kit: Brown's Gas (from water) for fuel combustion efficiency. Any good?

samblaze · 03-18-08, 10:43 AM

I just heard about these HHO kits the other day. The technology is based on water fuel cells. A buddy of mine installed on on his RX-8 and said his mileage went from ~250 miles per tank to ~325 (and has stayed there for 2 months). I'm a skeptic by nature so I need more feedback. Because he also switched to 93 and drives more conservatively with the kit on.

Convert Your Car to Run on Water - CarWaterFuel.com

The site seems to be legitimate, but you never know on the Internet. There were also e-zine article about this technology and apparently Fox news did a report on it as well?

The creator claims that his developed invention converts water into a gas called HHO (2 Hydrogen + 1 Oxygen). Also called Brown's gas or Hydroxy burns better than regular gas at our fuel pumps and provides more energy. This gas is extracted from water and is actually introduced into the air induction system and is not a replacement for gasoline, but rather like air on steroids which greatly increases the efficiency of the combustion process thereby burning the fuel from the injectors at much higher efficiency rate.

That site claims that fuel efficiency increases are reported to be between 15%-40% and some rare cases even report 100% gains. Power apparently is also increased 15%-20%. These figures, IF accurate, are pretty impressive.

So has anyone else had any experience with HHO (Brown's Gas) kits or the technology itself? Apparently some welders swear by it. All opinions and more information is welcome (especially technical know-how from the gurus), no flaming please. With the price of fuel well on the way to $4 per gallon this summer and given the notorious gas mileage of our Legends, I wonder if this technology could be used to make the Legend it the magic 30mpg (highway) mark? Or is it just another "Tornado Vortex Fuel Saver" style scam? Discuss.

samblaze · 03-18-08, 01:08 PM

Found some more interesting information on the net:

60 mpg?!?!

Another website: Channel: byte312 on LiveVideo.com

manxdr21 · 03-18-08, 01:13 PM

Looked at the link and saw the diff hho clips, very interesting. Gonna look up more on this also.

brynosaur · 03-18-08, 01:33 PM

wonder if it adds hp ?

samblaze · 03-18-08, 01:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brynosaur

wonder if it adds hp ?

I thought about that too. The first link I posted does claim a significant increase in power, but I'm not sure if that is due to an HP gain or a torque gain (more efficient transfer of power due to better combustion)? Also it would seem to me you can calibrate this system towards greater efficiency (less power) or vice versa.This guy Craig Moore in Michigan seems to be one of the pioneers in the field (that's his Dad's Escort wagon doing 60mpg) and he is byte312 on the last video site link I posted. He has a ton of videos explaining the building and installation of the technology. I sent him message asking if he would be willing t advise and guide me through my own build. Let's see if he responds.

I'm seriously thinking about doing an experimental build of an HHO setup and seeing if the technology works. Obviously, my precious GS is NOT going to be the guinea pig!!! Instead my trusty 86 Saab 900 (with it's easier to work on 16V 2.0L I4 pretty much bullet-proof motor) will undergo the surgery to see if tis technology actually works. If I do go ahead with the build, I'll post a build/progress thread in the non Legend/RL Automotive Discussion forum. The Saab gets a steady 30mpg combined and I'm wondering if I can get it up to 60mpg using this technology.

manxdr21 · 03-18-08, 03:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by samblaze

I thought about that too. The first link I posted does claim a significant increase in power, but I'm not sure if that is due to an HP gain or a torque gain (more efficient transfer of power due to better combustion)? Also it would seem to me you can calibrate this system towards greater efficiency (less power) or vice versa.This guy Craig Moore in Michigan seems to be one of the pioneers in the field (that's his Dad's Escort wagon doing 60mpg) and he is byte312 on the last video site link I posted. He has a ton of videos explaining the building and installation of the technology. I sent him message asking if he would be willing t advise and guide me through my own build. Let's see if he responds.

I'm seriously thinking about doing an experimental build of an HHO setup and seeing if the technology works. Obviously, my precious GS is NOT going to be the guinea pig!!! Instead my trusty 86 Saab 900 (with it's easier to work on 16V 2.0L I4 pretty much bullet-proof motor) will undergo the surgery to see if tis technology actually works. If I do go ahead with the build, I'll post a build/progress thread in the non Legend/RL Automotive Discussion forum. The Saab gets a steady 30mpg combined and I'm wondering if I can get it up to 60mpg using this technology.

Let us now how it turned out. I spent the last two hours searching and watching video clips. The one Craig Moore is doing seems legit. The other ones on the web(the ones you pay $50 for info) not too sure about those. Well just checked again and the picture with the bottle(jar), I see electric leads. Seems like the same principle, just Craig Moore seemed to use what looks like PVC pipe instead of the jar(prob could hold more pressure anyways).
Read a testimonial that didn't sit right with me, a guy in Florida states that his friend had passed emmissions testing after placing a unit in, however, Florida has not had emissions testing since 2000.

samblaze · 03-18-08, 04:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by manxdr21

Let us now how it turned out. I spent the last two hours searching and watching video clips. The one Craig Moore is doing seems legit. The other ones on the web(the ones you pay $50 for info) not too sure about those. Well just checked again and the picture with the bottle(jar), I see electric leads. Seems like the same principle, just Craig Moore seemed to use what looks like PVC pipe instead of the jar(prob could hold more pressure anyways).
Read a testimonial that didn't sit right with me, a guy in Florida states that his friend had passed emmissions testing after placing a unit in, however, Florida has not had emissions testing since 2000.

Yea I agree with the PVC method as opposed to the jar. I'm also apprehensive about implementing this on the C32A motor, because it raises combustion temp. Which I'm not sure would affect operating temp, but it might, and we all know how sensitive our all aluminum motors are to higher operating temps!! But if I can make a 60mpg daily driver for $500 (in parts) then I'm going to go for it!

TeamLR · 03-19-08, 11:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by samblaze

Yea I agree with the PVC method as opposed to the jar. I'm also apprehensive about implementing this on the C32A motor, because it raises combustion temp. Which I'm not sure would affect operating temp, but it might, and we all know how sensitive our all aluminum motors are to higher operating temps!! But if I can make a 60mpg daily driver for $500 (in parts) then I'm going to go for it!

i dnt think well get 60mpg mayb 45-50 since we have a v6 but hey any improvement will be great

samblaze · 03-19-08, 11:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TeamLR

i dnt think well get 60mpg mayb 45-50 since we have a v6 but hey any improvement will be great

Yea I don't think we'll get 60mpg either...I was actually thinking of 60mpg out of my Saab's 2.0L 4banger, which would be the car I would do such an experimental setup on first.

Dave C ver2.0 · 03-19-08, 06:39 PM

You have to be very carefull with dihydrogen oxide. This substance can be deadly in many circumstances.

Hint: Try Snopes.

samblaze · 03-19-08, 07:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave C ver2.0

You have to be very carefull with dihydrogen oxide. This substance can be deadly in many circumstances.

Hint: Try Snopes.

yea....if you can't swim!

manxdr21 · 03-22-08, 06:27 PM

I've been doing more searching and reading on the web about this. Still no total proof yet, but those trying to discredit it also don't back up there oppinions. All the "none believers"(for lack of a better word) just always spout out, it goes against thermaldynamics and physics, but nothing concrete to disprove how this works. The only reason that I'm gonna keep researching this and attempt it is because I did find many other normal looking Americans doing there attempts with this and many have seen some success. I don't think that many Americans are out trying to get others, mind you I'm not talking about corporations now, that's diff.

Well here's another guy I found that actually made a makeshift torch of sorts:

First Test Of A 31 Cell Series Electrolyzer For Making HHO Hydro Video - Metacafe

samblaze · 03-24-08, 12:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by manxdr21

I've been doing more searching and reading on the web about this. Still no total proof yet, but those trying to discredit it also don't back up there oppinions. All the "none believers"(for lack of a better word) just always spout out, it goes against thermaldynamics and physics, but nothing concrete to disprove how this works. The only reason that I'm gonna keep researching this and attempt it is because I did find many other normal looking Americans doing there attempts with this and many have seen some success. I don't think that many Americans are out trying to get others, mind you I'm not talking about corporations now, that's diff.

Well here's another guy I found that actually made a makeshift torch of sorts:

First Test Of A 31 Cell Series Electrolyzer For Making HHO Hydro Video - Metacafe

That is exactly what convinced me to give it a shot also, that many regular folks out there were attempting the technology and not tying to sell/market anything out of it but just sharing their info/experiences. Also a lot of the discrediting websites/posts are saying it can't power a car as a substitute for gasoline. But I'm leaning towards using it to enhance gasoline combustion rather than replace it. Keep us updated with your research man and I'll try to do the same. Also I would like other with some tech know-how to weigh in on the issue of raising operating temp in an IC motor. I'm NOT referring to aluminum motors like our Legends have but standard cast block motors running at slightly higher tan normal oeprating temps. What coling system solutions could be implemented to keep operations within normal temp ranges?

brynosaur · 03-24-08, 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by samblaze

That is exactly what convinced me to give it a shot also, that many regular folks out there were attempting the technology and not tying to sell/market anything out of it but just sharing their info/experiences. Also a lot of the discrediting websites/posts are saying it can't power a car as a substitute for gasoline. But I'm leaning towards using it to enhance gasoline combustion rather than replace it. Keep us updated with your research man and I'll try to do the same. Also I would like other with some tech know-how to weigh in on the issue of raising operating temp in an IC motor. I'm NOT referring to aluminum motors like our Legends have but standard cast block motors running at slightly higher tan normal oeprating temps. What coling system solutions could be implemented to keep operations within normal temp ranges?

oil intercooler ?

Quote:

Originally Posted by TeamLR

i dnt think well get 60mpg mayb 45-50 since we have a v6 but hey any improvement will be great

i woudnt complain a bit if i had a 40mpg c32 =)

manxdr21 · 03-24-08, 01:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brynosaur

oil intercooler ?

I know samblaze was not refering to our C32, so this is off his topic.
All coupes(TypeI and TypeII) have the oil cooler in our cars, so that could be helpful when it comes to the rise in combustion temp. Plus my coupe has the cooler that runs through the diff, which could help displace more heat. I don't have the TB bypass done and atleast 90% of my hoses are 1.5yr or newer so I think with theses conditions I should be ok. I wonder of the comb temp could be lowered by not heating up the hho gas as some have shown, and if so would that hurt the mpg gains a bit. Maybe there's a balance that can be found between temp and effeciency. I've also just started experimenting with the fuel and acetone/octane booster mix, gonna see if it's worth it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by brynosaur

i woudnt complain a bit if i had a 40mpg c32 =)

Neither would I my friend.
I am stiil into my engine work now(hopefully done in 2wks or so) and I was planing on doing some electronic upgrades, but since samblaze brought this up I've decided to devote my time and $ first on this HHO project. My grand father owns a small hardware store ,and so does my aunt, so I can get many of the supplies from their stores(with a discount, not five finger though). Gotta do more hmeowork though.

03-18-08, 10:43 AM	#1 (permalink)
samblaze Sherwood GS Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Lakewood, OH Posts: 2,079 iTrader: (10)	HHO Kit: Brown's Gas (from water) for fuel combustion efficiency. Any good? I just heard about these HHO kits the other day. The technology is based on water fuel cells. A buddy of mine installed on on his RX-8 and said his mileage went from ~250 miles per tank to ~325 (and has stayed there for 2 months). I'm a skeptic by nature so I need more feedback. Because he also switched to 93 and drives more conservatively with the kit on. Convert Your Car to Run on Water - CarWaterFuel.com The site seems to be legitimate, but you never know on the Internet. There were also e-zine article about this technology and apparently Fox news did a report on it as well? The creator claims that his developed invention converts water into a gas called HHO (2 Hydrogen + 1 Oxygen). Also called Brown's gas or Hydroxy burns better than regular gas at our fuel pumps and provides more energy. This gas is extracted from water and is actually introduced into the air induction system and is not a replacement for gasoline, but rather like air on steroids which greatly increases the efficiency of the combustion process thereby burning the fuel from the injectors at much higher efficiency rate. That site claims that fuel efficiency increases are reported to be between 15%-40% and some rare cases even report 100% gains. Power apparently is also increased 15%-20%. These figures, IF accurate, are pretty impressive. So has anyone else had any experience with HHO (Brown's Gas) kits or the technology itself? Apparently some welders swear by it. All opinions and more information is welcome (especially technical know-how from the gurus), no flaming please. With the price of fuel well on the way to $4 per gallon this summer and given the notorious gas mileage of our Legends, I wonder if this technology could be used to make the Legend it the magic 30mpg (highway) mark? Or is it just another "Tornado Vortex Fuel Saver" style scam? Discuss. __________________ 86 Saab 900S Coupe 5MT 94 Acura Legend GS 6MT 04 Subaru Forester XS A/T Last edited by samblaze : 03-18-08 at 01:35 PM.

03-18-08, 01:08 PM	#2 (permalink)
samblaze Sherwood GS Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Lakewood, OH Posts: 2,079 iTrader: (10)	Found some more interesting information on the net: 60 mpg?!?! Another website: Channel: byte312 on LiveVideo.com __________________ 86 Saab 900S Coupe 5MT 94 Acura Legend GS 6MT 04 Subaru Forester XS A/T

03-18-08, 01:33 PM	#4 (permalink)
brynosaur difficult to kill Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: sacto Posts: 710 Car 1: 1995 L coupe iTrader: (1)	wonder if it adds hp ? __________________ www.myspace.com/thebestbryan BHG free since 2003 95 L coupe 4AT in cashmere silver 60a urethane mounts FL tie bars (newly installed) sr5guy stage III ecu GB Xdrilled/slotted front n rear rebuilt top end (~20k on it so far) weapon r + cold air extension 5wire 4awg ground kit

03-19-08, 06:39 PM	#10 (permalink)
Dave C ver2.0 rh eller Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Rockville Md Posts: 1,945 Car 1: 92 L sedan and 88 LS sedan (wifes) iTrader: (1)	You have to be very carefull with dihydrogen oxide. This substance can be deadly in many circumstances. Hint: Try Snopes. __________________ Started rebuilding IC engines in 1968 at the US Merchant Marine Academy. Don't think you know more than me about auto/IC/control systems unless you can document your education.

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03-18-08, 01:13 PM	#3 (permalink)
manxdr21 Registered User Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Florida Posts: 733 Car 1: 91 LS Coupe Car 2: 95 LS Coupe n/run Car 3: Previous 89' L Coupe iTrader: (1)	Looked at the link and saw the diff hho clips, very interesting. Gonna look up more on this also.

03-22-08, 06:27 PM	#12 (permalink)
manxdr21 Registered User Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Florida Posts: 733 Car 1: 91 LS Coupe Car 2: 95 LS Coupe n/run Car 3: Previous 89' L Coupe iTrader: (1)	I've been doing more searching and reading on the web about this. Still no total proof yet, but those trying to discredit it also don't back up there oppinions. All the "none believers"(for lack of a better word) just always spout out, it goes against thermaldynamics and physics, but nothing concrete to disprove how this works. The only reason that I'm gonna keep researching this and attempt it is because I did find many other normal looking Americans doing there attempts with this and many have seen some success. I don't think that many Americans are out trying to get others, mind you I'm not talking about corporations now, that's diff. Well here's another guy I found that actually made a makeshift torch of sorts: First Test Of A 31 Cell Series Electrolyzer For Making HHO Hydro Video - Metacafe