HHO Kit: Brown's Gas (from water) for fuel combustion efficiency. Any good? - Page 2

**B+O** · 03-24-08, 03:52 PM

I just saw a video and there's no way i'm calling BS on this.

It's functional and I think i'm going to build on soon

samblaze · 03-24-08, 07:16 PM

Noice!!! This i was hoping for, more people willing to experiment for themselves with the technology and provide independent feedback!!

**B+O** · 03-25-08, 11:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave C ver2.0

You people can't be serious. Don't they teach chemistry in school anymore?

So there is no need for anybody to experiment. You can buy a complete bolt on kit. Enjoy your "free" fuel. Water Car Run on WATER+Fuel. Hydrogen Save Gas=FREE ENERGY!

A fool and his money are soon parted.

I knew you'd say something like this

It's more complicated than just boiling some water and tossing it in the engine. Hydrogen in itself is combustible when mixed with oxygen (a la Hindenburg). Also, the reason why you are to not supposed to smoke over a charging battery. It's water with electrolytes in it.

I refuse to throw away a grand. or even 200 or even 100, hell if i can get the stuff i need for under 20 bucks (got most of the stuff chillin in the attic) and it doesn't work, boohoo, i'm out 20 beans. If it does work, i'll have saved some money.

EDIT:

I don't buy the whole "burns better than gas" stuff, but it is a combustible mixture. The problem with this is the added oxygen added to the mix. Hence the need to tap into the O2 sensor feed and modify it. Problem is most O2s are narrowband (0-1v) reading so you have a smaller area to deal with it. Makes it more difficult to modify when you need to stay within the .80-ish and .60-ish area for it to be more or less reading lean or rich.

Dave C ver2.0 · 03-25-08, 11:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by B+O

I knew you'd say something like this

It's more complicated than just boiling some water and tossing it in the engine. Hydrogen in itself is combustible when mixed with oxygen (a la Hindenburg). Also, the reason why you are to not supposed to smoke over a charging battery. It's water with electrolytes in it.

I refuse to throw away a grand. or even 200 or even 100, hell if i can get the stuff i need for under 20 bucks (got most of the stuff chillin in the attic) and it doesn't work, boohoo, i'm out 20 beans. If it does work, i'll have saved some money.

You really are a

But why

Here's the link again for all you young scientists eager to learn: Water Car Run on WATER+Fuel. Hydrogen Save Gas=FREE ENERGY!

**B+O** · 03-25-08, 11:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave C ver2.0

You really are a

But why

Here's the link again for all you young scientists eager to learn: Water Car Run on WATER+Fuel. Hydrogen Save Gas=FREE ENERGY!

yea yea I know. Scientifically, it's not making much sense to me, but screw it. I drive 140miles a day (sometimes 200) and having to burn premium is hitting me pretty hard. I drive with fuel saving in mind but it's still hurting...

I'll give it a try. The worst thing that can happen is i kill an O2 sensor, replace it and remove the system.

samblaze · 03-25-08, 11:50 AM

^^ I can write off all my expenses related to this for my 08 taxes?!?!^^ Time to call the accountant, and get cracking on this project. If I can write it off then even if it doesn't work I can recoup some costs.

**B+O** · 03-25-08, 11:52 AM

Also

the system is more along the lines of this...

Quote:

Fuel economy can be improved with water injection, although the effect on most engines with no other modification, like leaning out the mixture, appears to be rather limited or even negligible in some cases.

Some degree of control over the water injection is important. It needs to be injected only when the engine is heavily loaded and the throttle is wide open. Otherwise injecting water may simply drown the engine and cause it to quit.

I'm more inclined to look at it like this, versus pure Hydro because a single hydrogen atom is pretty volatile. It'll combine with just about anything it can find.

Also Dave...

I'm almost positive nobody here is trying to inject the mixture as a complete replacement for gas

I don't see how that'd work. this more for "enhancement" of mixture

samblaze · 03-25-08, 11:56 AM

Did you guys check out the other videos byte312 (Craig Moore) has on livevideo.com? He explains a little more of the science behind it as well as some options of routing the released gas through your MAF/MAP. I'm still skeptical about the science (not the combustion of hydrogen per se, but the effect of this 66/33 gaseous mixture on gasoline combustion). But I'm willing to give it a shot anyway. If nothing else it gets me tinkering in my garage rather than staring at my monitor!

manxdr21 · 03-25-08, 01:02 PM

Is it possible to have the mixture leaned out using a Sr5guy or Telion chip? This could be easier and safer than splicing into the 02 sensor, altough probably more expensive.
I was thinking of using stainless steel springs as an anode and cathode. Prob use the stainless bolts used for the hurricane shutters to hold them in, the ones with the large and flat phillips head. Also maybe insert a stainless plate in each spring(prob from like a spatula). I would put a small divider so the current doesn't flow too direct, as Mr. Moore did, just seems to make sense.

Sorry, this is gonna be a bit off topic, but it's still energy/$ related and just wanted to share.
Well I tried posting the link but it's through yahoo and it's a pita. Well the link was to show you guys that if you open a 6v(square battery) you will find 32AA batteries. So if you buy enegizer 6v at like $6 you'll get way more than just 4AA for like $5.

edit: Googled it and some are saying that it depends on the brand(energizer doesn't use AA), not all of them use AA. Some use C or D type cells others use just one cell. I guess if you find the right one than it's worth it.

GrumpySteelMan · 03-25-08, 01:30 PM

Disjointed thoughts of an insomniac:

Calling this a poor mans fuel cell isn't even close to accurate, since you have to add a significant amount of electricity. Fuel Cells use Hydrogen and Oxygen to MAKE electricity. Still for those of you that want to learn more of the science look up 'electrolysis' and 'electrolytic process.' I think using the alternator in the car to free the H+ in the water is an excellent move.

I was making 'rocket fuel' with this process, when I was in my early teens, you know mail order plans. Simple hydrogen can be made violently with aluminum foil and sodium hydroxide. This (HHO) is a much safer and cheaper option.

You can increase the output of the systems by:
Increasing the Voltage
Increasing the Surface Area of the Electrodes
Increasing (to a point) the added Electrolyte

You want to use the most inert electrodes possible. Stainless is a good choice. I think the scientific kits use platinum, but that's a little out there for us thinking about being cheapskates.

Non-iodized salt and distilled white vinegar make great electrolytes.

This guy has a great design for electrodes YouTube - HHO Lots and Lots of HHO

I have a proposal that I'm going to put to work shortly. Since the point of using DC current it to pull hydrogen to the cathode and oxygen to the anode why not use an inverter to get 110VAC and cut down on the need for tons of electrode? Of course the higher the voltage the more the electrode will decompose. Still perhaps the fact that the added electricity is alternating, perhaps it wouldn't decompose as fast.

I would caution against using glass if you're wiring your system straight to the battery. If the jar breaks and your electrode shorts to the body you could have a fire or explode the battery under the hood. Either way you should place a fuse within 18" of the battery.

manxdr21 · 03-25-08, 02:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GrumpySteelMan

Disjointed thoughts of an insomniac:

Calling this a poor mans fuel cell isn't even close to accurate, since you have to add a significant amount of electricity. Fuel Cells use Hydrogen and Oxygen to MAKE electricity. Still for those of you that want to learn more of the science look up 'electrolysis' and 'electrolytic process.' I think using the alternator in the car to free the H+ in the water is an excellent move.

I was making 'rocket fuel' with this process, when I was in my early teens, you know mail order plans. Simple hydrogen can be made violently with aluminum foil and sodium hydroxide. This (HHO) is a much safer and cheaper option.

You can increase the output of the systems by:
Increasing the Voltage
Increasing the Surface Area of the Electrodes
Increasing (to a point) the added Electrolyte

You want to use the most inert electrodes possible. Stainless is a good choice. I think the scientific kits use platinum, but that's a little out there for us thinking about being cheapskates.

Non-iodized salt and distilled white vinegar make great electrolytes.

This guy has a great design for electrodes YouTube - HHO Lots and Lots of HHO

I have a proposal that I'm going to put to work shortly. Since the point of using DC current it to pull hydrogen to the cathode and oxygen to the anode why not use an inverter to get 110VAC and cut down on the need for tons of electrode? Of course the higher the voltage the more the electrode will decompose. Still perhaps the fact that the added electricity is alternating, perhaps it wouldn't decompose as fast.

I would caution against using glass if you're wiring your system straight to the battery. If the jar breaks and your electrode shorts to the body you could have a fire or explode the battery under the hood. Either way you should place a fuse within 18" of the battery.

Thanks good info.
Don't really want to speak for sam, but I think we are both mostly on the same page when it comes to what type of housing for the generator we will be using. PVC baby, it is stronger than the glass, more durable, and easily found.

GrumpySteelMan · 03-25-08, 02:18 PM

PVC is a good choice, especially since it won't react with anything in the chamber.

The only downside is monitoring water level. Of course it is simple to take two fittings and a length of clear tube to make a level indicator.

manxdr21 · 03-25-08, 02:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GrumpySteelMan

PVC is a good choice, especially since it won't react with anything in the chamber.

The only downside is monitoring water level. Of course it is simple to take two fittings and a length of clear tube to make a level indicator.

Or make a "sight glass' of sorts on it. Could make a dip stick out of something that resembles a drinking straw. Could also put in a float and have it notifiy you electronically.

samblaze · 03-25-08, 04:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by manxdr21

Thanks good info.
Don't really want to speak for sam, but I think we are both mostly on the same page when it comes to what type of housing for the generator we will be using. PVC baby, it is stronger than the glass, more durable, and easily found.

I was going to stop by the hardware store this weekend to check out pvc options (diameter, thickness etc)! Grumpsteelman your idea for DC instead of alternating is interesting, but as you mentioned electrode wear might be an issue. However, since I am not planning on using platinum, if I can make a simple enough design to replace electrodes in the cell then stainless is fairly affordable (in small quantities) and that would ensure clean electrodes all the time.

manxdr please elaborate on the spring/hurricane bolt w/plates electrode design (if you don't mind sharing) as that sound like a god way to maximize surface area to me.

brynosaur · 03-25-08, 10:14 PM

ive had a junk civic in my garage for a long time now, that im thinking would be a good candidate for this project (needs a distributor first things first though)

03-24-08, 07:16 PM	#17 (permalink)
samblaze Sherwood on Type F Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Lakewood, OH Posts: 2,829 iTrader: (10)	Noice!!! This i was hoping for, more people willing to experiment for themselves with the technology and provide independent feedback!! __________________ 86 Saab 900S Coupe 5MT 94 Acura Legend GS 6MT 04 Subaru Forester XS 4EAT Sig by Double Glow

03-25-08, 11:50 AM	#21 (permalink)
samblaze Sherwood on Type F Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Lakewood, OH Posts: 2,829 iTrader: (10)	^^ I can write off all my expenses related to this for my 08 taxes?!?!^^ Time to call the accountant, and get cracking on this project. If I can write it off then even if it doesn't work I can recoup some costs. __________________ 86 Saab 900S Coupe 5MT 94 Acura Legend GS 6MT 04 Subaru Forester XS 4EAT Sig by Double Glow

03-25-08, 11:56 AM	#23 (permalink)
samblaze Sherwood on Type F Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Lakewood, OH Posts: 2,829 iTrader: (10)	Did you guys check out the other videos byte312 (Craig Moore) has on livevideo.com? He explains a little more of the science behind it as well as some options of routing the released gas through your MAF/MAP. I'm still skeptical about the science (not the combustion of hydrogen per se, but the effect of this 66/33 gaseous mixture on gasoline combustion). But I'm willing to give it a shot anyway. If nothing else it gets me tinkering in my garage rather than staring at my monitor! __________________ 86 Saab 900S Coupe 5MT 94 Acura Legend GS 6MT 04 Subaru Forester XS 4EAT Sig by Double Glow

03-25-08, 01:02 PM	#24 (permalink)
manxdr21 Registered User Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Florida Posts: 734 Car 1: 91 LS Coupe Car 2: 95 LS Coupe n/run Car 3: Previous 89' L Coupe iTrader: (1)	Is it possible to have the mixture leaned out using a Sr5guy or Telion chip? This could be easier and safer than splicing into the 02 sensor, altough probably more expensive. I was thinking of using stainless steel springs as an anode and cathode. Prob use the stainless bolts used for the hurricane shutters to hold them in, the ones with the large and flat phillips head. Also maybe insert a stainless plate in each spring(prob from like a spatula). I would put a small divider so the current doesn't flow too direct, as Mr. Moore did, just seems to make sense. Sorry, this is gonna be a bit off topic, but it's still energy/$ related and just wanted to share. Well I tried posting the link but it's through yahoo and it's a pita. Well the link was to show you guys that if you open a 6v(square battery) you will find 32AA batteries. So if you buy enegizer 6v at like $6 you'll get way more than just 4AA for like $5. edit: Googled it and some are saying that it depends on the brand(energizer doesn't use AA), not all of them use AA. Some use C or D type cells others use just one cell. I guess if you find the right one than it's worth it. Last edited by manxdr21 : 03-25-08 at 01:26 PM.

03-25-08, 01:30 PM	#25 (permalink)
GrumpySteelMan Find Em Fuck Em Forget Em Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Greensboro, NC Posts: 983 Car 1: 2004 Nighthawk RL Car 2: 2005 Nighthawk TL Car 3: 2002 525i Sport Wag iTrader: (0)	Disjointed thoughts of an insomniac: Calling this a poor mans fuel cell isn't even close to accurate, since you have to add a significant amount of electricity. Fuel Cells use Hydrogen and Oxygen to MAKE electricity. Still for those of you that want to learn more of the science look up 'electrolysis' and 'electrolytic process.' I think using the alternator in the car to free the H+ in the water is an excellent move. I was making 'rocket fuel' with this process, when I was in my early teens, you know mail order plans. Simple hydrogen can be made violently with aluminum foil and sodium hydroxide. This (HHO) is a much safer and cheaper option. You can increase the output of the systems by: Increasing the Voltage Increasing the Surface Area of the Electrodes Increasing (to a point) the added Electrolyte You want to use the most inert electrodes possible. Stainless is a good choice. I think the scientific kits use platinum, but that's a little out there for us thinking about being cheapskates. Non-iodized salt and distilled white vinegar make great electrolytes. This guy has a great design for electrodes YouTube - HHO Lots and Lots of HHO I have a proposal that I'm going to put to work shortly. Since the point of using DC current it to pull hydrogen to the cathode and oxygen to the anode why not use an inverter to get 110VAC and cut down on the need for tons of electrode? Of course the higher the voltage the more the electrode will decompose. Still perhaps the fact that the added electricity is alternating, perhaps it wouldn't decompose as fast. I would caution against using glass if you're wiring your system straight to the battery. If the jar breaks and your electrode shorts to the body you could have a fire or explode the battery under the hood. Either way you should place a fuse within 18" of the battery. __________________ "A gentleman is one who never hurts anyone's feelings unintentionally." -Oscar Wilde 3.5RL With/Without Nitrous Comparo Video

03-24-08, 03:52 PM	#16 (permalink)
B+O The Mac vs. The Mack Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: VSC Moderator Posts: 12,421 Car 1: why? iTrader: (1)	I just saw a video and there's no way i'm calling BS on this. It's functional and I think i'm going to build on soon

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03-25-08, 02:18 PM	#27 (permalink)
GrumpySteelMan Find Em Fuck Em Forget Em Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Greensboro, NC Posts: 983 Car 1: 2004 Nighthawk RL Car 2: 2005 Nighthawk TL Car 3: 2002 525i Sport Wag iTrader: (0)	PVC is a good choice, especially since it won't react with anything in the chamber. The only downside is monitoring water level. Of course it is simple to take two fittings and a length of clear tube to make a level indicator. __________________ "A gentleman is one who never hurts anyone's feelings unintentionally." -Oscar Wilde 3.5RL With/Without Nitrous Comparo Video

03-25-08, 10:14 PM	#30 (permalink)
brynosaur difficult to kill Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: sacto Posts: 751 Car 1: 1995 L coupe iTrader: (1)	ive had a junk civic in my garage for a long time now, that im thinking would be a good candidate for this project (needs a distributor first things first though) __________________ www.myspace.com/thebestbryan BHG free since 2003 95 L coupe 4AT in cashmere silver 60a urethane mounts FL tie bars (newly installed) sr5guy stage III ecu GB Xdrilled/slotted front n rear rebuilt top end (~20k on it so far) weapon r + cold air extension 5wire 4awg ground kit