HHO Kit: Brown's Gas (from water) for fuel combustion efficiency. Any good? - Page 4

GrumpySteelMan · 03-29-08, 08:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sr5guy

Just wanted to clarify that its not the water that gives the power, it is the cooling effect that the water has on the intake charge, allowing you to run that advanced timing and high boost without detonation.

-Matt

+1

The response was meant to indicate that water injection has no place in a fuel economy thread. I got off track and didn't tie it up properly. Thanks.

samblaze · 03-29-08, 08:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by manxdr21

I'm def. mo chemistry major either but what is this:
Quote from the link:
99% of the gasoline does undergo combustion. A 300% gain in efficiency would imply that we are now getting 399% of the theoretically-retrievable energy that the gasoline contains (well, actually more than 399% because we also need to cover the losses from the electrolysis). This is just asinine and Carnot says otherwise. Energy can not be created from nothing -- the gasoline can NOT give more than 100% of what it has.

If i'm not mistaken he's wrong we don't use 99% of our gasoline more like 33%. Also he is not taking into consideration that all cars do not get the best amount of oxygen for combustion due to the fact that our air is only about 1/3 oxygen and with this process you won't only be "injecting" hydrogen, you will also be "injecting" oxygen, making it more efficiant. Can you prob. say over thinking, KISS(keep it simple stupid). The problem is that most people draw up a conclusion before undergoing tests and having any concrete evidence.

Also he's stating a 300% gain in efficiency?! I'm looking to make a 30 mpg 2.0L I4 into 45-50 mpg so that would be a 50% - 60% efficiency gain at best. I do agree with people passing judgment too quickly before trying to verify first.

GrumpySteelMan · 03-29-08, 10:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by manxdr21

If i'm not mistaken he's wrong we don't use 99% of our gasoline more like 33%. Also he is not taking into consideration that all cars do not get the best amount of oxygen for combustion due to the fact that our air is only about 1/3 oxygen and with this process you won't only be "injecting" hydrogen, you will also be "injecting" oxygen, making it more efficiant. Can you prob. say over thinking, KISS(keep it simple stupid). The problem is that most people draw up a conclusion before undergoing tests and having any concrete evidence.

The combustion efficiency is only about 33% for making power. 33% goes out the exhaust pipe as waste heat and 33% goes into the cooling system. As a general rule there is as close to zero unburned fuel in the exhaust as makes any difference.

Adding hydrogen and increasing the oxygen content in the air is going to make things more efficient, to what degree? Certainly not 300%. I am all but positive that you couldn't generate enough HHO to make that kind of improvement. Even if you could, the size and power requirements of such a unit would be prohibitively large.

samblaze · 03-31-08, 02:48 AM

BTW, I found SS springs at my local Ingersoll hardware store....

manxdr21 · 03-31-08, 12:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by samblaze

BTW, I found SS springs at my local Ingersoll hardware store....

I haven't really tried looking for them (except when I happened to stop by Lowes). Still messing with the engine, heads are about done and next is the exhaust manilfolds. Got some parts coming in tomorrow, so hopefully I'll be done by this weekend(depends on the weather). Let us know how it keeps coming along.

WareWolf · 04-16-08, 09:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by samblaze

2. No mention of electrolysing a catalytic fluid, as opposed to just plain H20. Wouldn't there be a significantly higher yield of monoatomic hydrogen compared to just water? Again this would need to be verified. But the 'blow torch' video would lead me to believe so.

I aways did hate chemistry in school (Physics was my thing)!

I think if you 'buy their kit/info/dog&pony-sho' they tell you to use distilled water.. Other bits I picked up on: put a tube in thru the water, with holes in the sides, to better difuse the air as its released in the fluid chamber. As such, wouldn't some stainless tubing give enough surface area to act as a good conductor, and rls the gas too - just a thought? Why make, add, figure out plates, instead use the whole thing as a conductor..?

Found your messages while looking about for some info on HHO. Recently I bought a 1990 BMW 325i w/inline 6, it has loads of pwr & is a real cruiser, but it drinkz gas.. If hho can improve my fuel economy, I'd try it. More hp, or better pickup = less time on the throttle = fuel saved. We drive alot. Anyways, this sounds like it might be worth a shot, even if initially on a small scale, it wouldn't need to be a big CRAZEE lookin mason jar dealie.. to do the same chemical job..couldn't a film canister provide the same effect? I wonder if a old junk yard fluid reservoir might work for this?? I wonder if you used exhaust gas in addition, if it would warm it and make it run better all the time? Like an auto-choke..? What if you put in 2 supplies of this same effect to a motor, is there a measurable improvement still? In fact, if you triple charge it, would it do 3x the work? 8)

Anyways, if I ran a mason jar in my engine compartment I'd get thrown in the klink in this redneck town, for runnin moooooonshine or something. "that boy has the power of satan in his car, he do!"

Talk amongst yerselves..discuss..

samblaze · 04-16-08, 10:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WareWolf

I think if you 'buy their kit/info/dog&pony-sho' they tell you to use distilled water.. Other bits I picked up on: put a tube in thru the water, with holes in the sides, to better difuse the air as its released in the fluid chamber. As such, wouldn't some stainless tubing give enough surface area to act as a good conductor, and rls the gas too - just a thought? Why make, add, figure out plates, instead use the whole thing as a conductor..?

Found your messages while looking about for some info on HHO. Recently I bought a 1990 BMW 325i w/inline 6, it has loads of pwr & is a real cruiser, but it drinkz gas.. If hho can improve my fuel economy, I'd try it. More hp, or better pickup = less time on the throttle = fuel saved. We drive alot. Anyways, this sounds like it might be worth a shot, even if initially on a small scale, it wouldn't need to be a big CRAZEE lookin mason jar dealie.. to do the same chemical job..couldn't a film canister provide the same effect? I wonder if a old junk yard fluid reservoir might work for this?? I wonder if you used exhaust gas in addition, if it would warm it and make it run better all the time? Like an auto-choke..? What if you put in 2 supplies of this same effect to a motor, is there a measurable improvement still? In fact, if you triple charge it, would it do 3x the work? 8)

Anyways, if I ran a mason jar in my engine compartment I'd get thrown in the klink in this redneck town, for runnin moooooonshine or something. "that boy has the power of satan in his car, he do!"

Talk amongst yerselves..discuss..

Welcome to the forum! You make a good point about buying the off the shelf kit, in fact that's one of the main reasons I'm going at it from scratch. The idea of stainless tubes as both electrodes and air induction systems is intriguing. I'm going to have to do some more research into that. My only reservation would be that in order to provide enough surface area for electrolysis the tubes would have to be pretty big, which in turn would require a bigger electrolysis chamber. The SS springs provide a lot of surface area in a compact design as they are convoluted. My goal is to size the entire combustion chamber around the size of a football or slightly smaller. I'd rather do frequent fluid top up than have a huge contraption producing flammable hydrogen in my engine bay.

Both manxdr and I are considering PVC for the chamber, mason jars are useless for any pressurized environment! Not to mention glass is not sturdiest material in a fender bender! So PVC pipe (still researching width, diameter, grade etc) appears to be the best choice (non reactive, holds pressure and withstands heat). Junkyard reservoir might work if you figure out some way to seal it really well as those lids are usually vented to release too much pressure from the cooling system.

Good luck with your HHO experiment and keep us updated with your "power of satan" project!

Adding exponential electrolysis chambers would put a HUGE draw on the cars electrical system and you would require serious upgrades to your wiring, alternator and multiple batteries. Also a lot of the power produced would be fed back into those systems so it may not necessarily make it more efficient. You have to experiment with your own cars combustion cycle to figure whether you want more than one chamber.

filmshoot · 05-06-08, 06:59 AM

We are a long way from what Stanley Meyer was doing..... but if you don't know about his work check it out.

stanley mayer - Google Search

there are some great videos about him on youtube and a cool one on merlib

RIP Stan

JTJohnny102 · 05-06-08, 10:53 AM

why not make a flux capacitor and use trash to power your car. Increase in hp with HHO kit....please....with a flux capacitor you'll be able to time travel. I would do it on my legend, but I don't have time with work and classes.

Sgt Pyroman · 05-07-08, 10:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by filmshoot

We are a long way from what Stanley Meyer was doing..... but if you don't know about his work check it out.

stanley mayer - Google Search

there are some great videos about him on youtube and a cool one on merlib

RIP Stan

+1

Anyone reading this thread should definitely check out Stanley Meyer's research. This guy has not had nearly enough publicity.

Stan Meyer's Dune Buggy

samblaze · 05-08-08, 04:58 PM

^^ Good to learn the history behind it! My HHO project is now on hold until I finish fixing the Legend's SHG

, but I'm determined to finish it this summer.

EDIT: And he's from OH!!

Now I'm not completely convinced on his plans/prototype yet (as in running an engine on nothing but water that still needs more scientific evidence imho) but I am willing to experiment with HHO as a supplement to an IC engine and not for hp gains, but purely for mpg gains. If anything hp would stay the same or even go down a little bit because of much higher combustion temperatures involved...

captnnero · 05-10-08, 12:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JTJohnny102

why not make a flux capacitor and use trash to power your car. Increase in hp with HHO kit....please....with a flux capacitor you'll be able to time travel. I would do it on my legend, but I don't have time with work and classes.

Don't forget: to run the flux capacitor directly on trash you need a Mr. Fusion. Otherwise you're stuck with plutonium.

kotetu · 05-13-08, 03:06 AM

might I suggest starting small?

black-n-blue · 05-13-08, 04:17 AM

I got an 'A' in Chemistry but this stuff is still confusing.

Two schools. Some guys are installing 'bubblers' in their cars and I'm thinking that is just an interruption of the fuel line, bubbling the fuel before it goes to intake. My understanding is that a 'bubble' takes longer to burn than straight liquid fuel, thereby prolonging the time it takes to burn your tank and enhancing mpg.

Please disregard if this makes no sense whatsoever.

The other guys are actually trying to mimic the Stan Meyer protege. I think it is cracking Water to produce Hydrogen. If you do it properly, I have heard of 20 - 30% mileage improvement. If you do it REALLY properly, you may not have to visit a gas pump again.

Can you imagine the implications?

I cannot.

Every time I contemplate another free avenue from free energy, another one opens up. It literally blows the mind.

Do you know the Stan Meyer story? A blessed Ohioan who had the dunebuggy as you know. He presented his idea to the top brass at the Pentagon and after the meeting, went out to dinner.

It would be his last.

He stumbled into the parking lot and collapsed.

Autopsy. Food poisoning.

But his spirit lives on.

This is real and there are threads on the internet right now that are getting closer to realizing this dream, in the name of Stan Meyer. And the Pogue carbureator, to name another. There are many others.

You watch.

As fuel continues to climb in price, this idea will come to fruition. Human intuition will overcome the yoke of OPEC and a tech that is past tense.

Minute by minute, we get closer.

That's why I'm not buying a hybrid.

I know the vehicle I wanna roll down the road in.

It's a Legend.

And one day I'm gonna be doing it for free.

We all are.

GrumpySteelMan · 05-13-08, 04:22 AM

"Make Turbos not Hybrids"

03-31-08, 02:48 AM	#49 (permalink)
samblaze Sherwood on Type F Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Lakewood, OH Posts: 2,829 iTrader: (10)	BTW, I found SS springs at my local Ingersoll hardware store.... __________________ 86 Saab 900S Coupe 5MT 94 Acura Legend GS 6MT 04 Subaru Forester XS 4EAT Sig by Double Glow

05-06-08, 10:53 AM	#54 (permalink)
JTJohnny102 Registered User Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Nebraska Posts: 3,641 Car 1: 93 Black L Coupe Car 2: 91 Red LS Coupe(RIP) iTrader: (1)	why not make a flux capacitor and use trash to power your car. Increase in hp with HHO kit....please....with a flux capacitor you'll be able to time travel. I would do it on my legend, but I don't have time with work and classes. __________________ http://www.cardomain.com/ride/773155

05-08-08, 04:58 PM	#56 (permalink)
samblaze Sherwood on Type F Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Lakewood, OH Posts: 2,829 iTrader: (10)	^^ Good to learn the history behind it! My HHO project is now on hold until I finish fixing the Legend's SHG , but I'm determined to finish it this summer. EDIT: And he's from OH!! Now I'm not completely convinced on his plans/prototype yet (as in running an engine on nothing but water that still needs more scientific evidence imho) but I am willing to experiment with HHO as a supplement to an IC engine and not for hp gains, but purely for mpg gains. If anything hp would stay the same or even go down a little bit because of much higher combustion temperatures involved... __________________ 86 Saab 900S Coupe 5MT 94 Acura Legend GS 6MT 04 Subaru Forester XS 4EAT Sig by Double Glow Last edited by samblaze : 05-08-08 at 05:10 PM.

05-13-08, 04:22 AM	#60 (permalink)
GrumpySteelMan Find Em Fuck Em Forget Em Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Greensboro, NC Posts: 983 Car 1: 2004 Nighthawk RL Car 2: 2005 Nighthawk TL Car 3: 2002 525i Sport Wag iTrader: (0)	"Make Turbos not Hybrids" __________________ "A gentleman is one who never hurts anyone's feelings unintentionally." -Oscar Wilde 3.5RL With/Without Nitrous Comparo Video

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05-06-08, 06:59 AM	#53 (permalink)
filmshoot Registered User Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Bay Area, NORCAL Posts: 217 Car 1: 1993 Acura Legend Coupe Type II 6sp Car 2: 87 Prelude 2.0si 5sp iTrader: (3)	We are a long way from what Stanley Meyer was doing..... but if you don't know about his work check it out. stanley mayer - Google Search there are some great videos about him on youtube and a cool one on merlib RIP Stan

05-13-08, 04:17 AM	#59 (permalink)
black-n-blue Registered User Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Madison WI Posts: 118 Car 1: 92 cobalt blue L sedan Car 2: 94 blk/blk L coupe iTrader: (0)	I got an 'A' in Chemistry but this stuff is still confusing. Two schools. Some guys are installing 'bubblers' in their cars and I'm thinking that is just an interruption of the fuel line, bubbling the fuel before it goes to intake. My understanding is that a 'bubble' takes longer to burn than straight liquid fuel, thereby prolonging the time it takes to burn your tank and enhancing mpg. Please disregard if this makes no sense whatsoever. The other guys are actually trying to mimic the Stan Meyer protege. I think it is cracking Water to produce Hydrogen. If you do it properly, I have heard of 20 - 30% mileage improvement. If you do it REALLY properly, you may not have to visit a gas pump again. Can you imagine the implications? I cannot. Every time I contemplate another free avenue from free energy, another one opens up. It literally blows the mind. Do you know the Stan Meyer story? A blessed Ohioan who had the dunebuggy as you know. He presented his idea to the top brass at the Pentagon and after the meeting, went out to dinner. It would be his last. He stumbled into the parking lot and collapsed. Autopsy. Food poisoning. But his spirit lives on. This is real and there are threads on the internet right now that are getting closer to realizing this dream, in the name of Stan Meyer. And the Pogue carbureator, to name another. There are many others. You watch. As fuel continues to climb in price, this idea will come to fruition. Human intuition will overcome the yoke of OPEC and a tech that is past tense. Minute by minute, we get closer. That's why I'm not buying a hybrid. I know the vehicle I wanna roll down the road in. It's a Legend. And one day I'm gonna be doing it for free. We all are.