My 3.5 Semi-Hybrid Swap... Progress and Information NO 56K - Page 5

*Dv8* · 02-27-07, 01:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sr5guy

Which one would you have chosen???

The one on the left.

~Dv8

sr5guy · 02-27-07, 01:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dv8

Drill and swap TPS sensors.

I was thinking of doing that. Have any idea what the air boost valve does, though? The 3.5 doesn't have one.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dv8

I'm using the 3.2s cam covers.

~Dv8

I'm going to use the 3.5's for now then switch over to the 3.2 covers after I get them painted up. It looks like I'm going to be tearing down the top end again before the end of the year

*Dv8* · 02-27-07, 01:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sr5guy

I was thinking of doing that. Have any idea what the air boost valve does, though? The 3.5 doesn't have one.

3.2?
I'd only be guessing, I havent studied the 3.5's air system. Ask Kenny boy.
update: I remember now. im using a TYPE II TB from KMS connecting to the RL manifold neck. They replaced the TPS sensor with screws , but my tps is still pointing downward.

Coming along great. How soon before we start seeing it at its true potential?

~Dv8

sr5guy · 02-27-07, 01:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dv8

The one on the left.

~Dv8

Damn I should have used it - new performance mod, Light Weight Cam Sensor.

-Matt

*Dv8* · 02-27-07, 01:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sr5guy

Damn I should have used it - new performance mod, Light Weight Cam Sensor.

-Matt

The less black stuff the better duh....................

~Dv8

sr5guy · 02-27-07, 02:18 AM

Oh forgot to mention some other things...

The 3.5 Injectors measure 11ohms.
The 3.2 Injectors measure 2ohms.

I think the 3.5 Injectors are self-terminating. Do they have an external resistor box or not? That should answer that question.

The Type II manifold has a shorter recess for the fuel injectors. When I used the sealing o-rings and spacers from the type I, they were too tall. I have to shave them down a bit tommorow.

The Type II has the same fuel injectors as the Type I, but the fuel pressure regulator is different. I wonder if the Type II uses a higher pressure, as that would explain why the ECU fuel maps are significantly leaner for the type II.

I layed the intake manifold gasket on the manifold and there is about 2mm of port gasket matching to be had. The heads have about 1mm.

-Matt

sr5guy · 02-27-07, 02:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dv8

3.2?
I'd only be guessing, I havent studied the 3.5's air system. Ask Kenny boy.
update: I remember now. im using a TYPE II TB from KMS connecting to the RL manifold neck. They replaced the TPS sensor with screws , but my tps is still pointing downward.

Coming along great. How soon before we start seeing it at its true potential?

~Dv8

I will shoot him a PM. The TPS sensor still points down? Hmm, I bet the elbow behind the throttle body is different. I will have to compare them tommorow. It probably places the throttle body in a different position.

This should be running tommorow if everything goes well. I broke two injectors, they fell out of the manifold and the nozzles split. I have to see if I can change the plastic nozzle, if not I have to locate another set.

I still have to locate a set of type II cams and valve springs and gather all of the stuff to do a nice P&P gasket match, etc on the manifold. Might as well do the headers and everything else at the same time, so it will be a little while - I'm tired of looking at this motor anyway

-Matt

mweber88 · 02-27-07, 06:30 AM

Matt--

I'm betting that they went with high-impedence injectors and eliminated the resistor pack for the 3.5, but I don't have concrete evidence. The flow rates should be the same provided the 3.5 is still sequentially fired like the 3.2, so using the 3.2 injectors would be your best bet.

Keep in mind, too, that you'll be playing with fuel maps a bit with this thing! You'll probably have to richen up the WOT portion of the map due to your manifold change. I tell ya, that manifold design just looks awesome compared to the Type I or 3.5.

Keep up the good work!

Mike

whats77inaname · 02-27-07, 08:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sr5guy

The Type II manifold has a shorter recess for the fuel injectors. When I used the sealing o-rings and spacers from the type I, they were too tall. I have to shave them down a bit tommorow.

-Matt

http://acura-legend.com/vbulletin/sh...ad.php?t=87643

sr5guy · 02-27-07, 10:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whats77inaname

http://acura-legend.com/vbulletin/sh...ad.php?t=87643

I saw your post a few months ago regarding the issue. I was under the impression that there was a difference with the fuel rails - but they are identical, in part numbers also.

-Matt

sr5guy · 02-27-07, 11:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mweber88

Matt--

I'm betting that they went with high-impedence injectors and eliminated the resistor pack for the 3.5, but I don't have concrete evidence. The flow rates should be the same provided the 3.5 is still sequentially fired like the 3.2, so using the 3.2 injectors would be your best bet.

Keep in mind, too, that you'll be playing with fuel maps a bit with this thing! You'll probably have to richen up the WOT portion of the map due to your manifold change. I tell ya, that manifold design just looks awesome compared to the Type I or 3.5.

Keep up the good work!

Mike

Yes, they went to high impedience injectors on the 3.5RL. Check out the wiring diagrams - the Legend's ground in an injector resistor. The 3.5's ground in a junction box (right to ground).
ECU Wiring Diagrams for Legend, 3.2TL and 3.5RL - NO 56K - *BIG* PICS

This is definetly going to be a tuning testbed :-P. I still have quite a bit of work to do and stuff to buy before I tune it.

By the way, did you check out the 3.5RL ECU? A member snapped some pictures for me. The 3.5ECU has the auto trans board integrated into the main board. It also uses the next generation of hitachi MCU's (H8/539) that have flash programmability (no ROM chip). If we could figure out the protocol they use, that would be an instant shortcut to datalogging and cheap realtime programmability. The only problems I see would be the usage of the RL's coil packs - the extra prong (RL's have 3, legend's have 2) is for misfire detection with a special ignition module. Also the high impediance injectors would have to be installed. And, I think you would have to install a post-cat oxygen sensor to keep it happy unless we could figure out how to disable it (flash from european car

?)
RL ECU Chipping Project
^the pics are on page 2

-Matt

*Dv8* · 02-27-07, 01:28 PM

There are a few different TPS sensors out there. I recently replaced mine and this one points up. The other pointed down. Drill the rivets, replaced with screws and connect the tps before screwing it in place if pointing down.

I have the RL injectors, they dont fit the Legend harness, that was an indication at the time they probably wouldnt work with additional crap.

All this rexcent demand for TYPE II parts got me thinking about the T2 engine rotting away in the yard, before it gets real bad im going to get the topend hot tanked and store them away. I might need them someday.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sr5guy

I will shoot him a PM. The TPS sensor still points down? Hmm, I bet the elbow behind the throttle body is different. I will have to compare them tommorow. It probably places the throttle body in a different position.

This should be running tommorow if everything goes well. I broke two injectors, they fell out of the manifold and the nozzles split. I have to see if I can change the plastic nozzle, if not I have to locate another set.

I still have to locate a set of type II cams and valve springs and gather all of the stuff to do a nice P&P gasket match, etc on the manifold. Might as well do the headers and everything else at the same time, so it will be a little while - I'm tired of looking at this motor anyway

-Matt

sr5guy · 02-27-07, 10:01 PM

Finally got the motor in today. I haven't had a whole day to work on it since last week. Its annoying only being able to work on it 2-3 hours a day.

So.... after I got everything installed i realized that i forgot to install the differential to block bolt and shim. I left it out because I lost the shim. I had to remove the steering rack to get at it

. Kids, dont forget the shim, you will cause damage to the differential input and transmission output shafts.

The y-pipe bolted to the catalytic converter with absolutely no issues.

I got lucky AGAIN today!!! The fuel injector spacers that I needed for the type II manifold were the same as the ones used on the 3.5. I didn't even think of using them until the last minute. FYI: 1990-1993 Honda Accords use the same spacers as the Type II.

Type II/3.5 on left, Type I on right

-Matt

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02-27-07, 06:30 AM	#68 (permalink)
mweber88 Registered User Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Columbus, OH Posts: 405 Car 1: 1994 Acura Legend GS Black/Black 6-speed Car 2: 1997 Honda Prelude iTrader: (3)	Matt-- I'm betting that they went with high-impedence injectors and eliminated the resistor pack for the 3.5, but I don't have concrete evidence. The flow rates should be the same provided the 3.5 is still sequentially fired like the 3.2, so using the 3.2 injectors would be your best bet. Keep in mind, too, that you'll be playing with fuel maps a bit with this thing! You'll probably have to richen up the WOT portion of the map due to your manifold change. I tell ya, that manifold design just looks awesome compared to the Type I or 3.5. Keep up the good work! Mike