Nitrous Wet/Dry?

95LegendGS · 03-27-08, 11:42 AM

I have two choices here I can get both kits for pretty cheap. First is the dry kit which is a ZEX Nitrous kit #82011. Then the wet kit 10lb bottle, 75 shot jet unknown brand/kit number.(will find out soon). So my question is which should I buy/which is better? How hard is it to install? I'd like some tips before I buy them so I know what I'm getting into. FYI I will be on standalone when spraying so you don't have to tell me to get a chip.

GrumpySteelMan · 03-27-08, 12:20 PM

Zex kit is easiest to install.

The wet system is generally much safer IMO. The 'tune' with the fuel jets is easy to manage (straightforward calculations) while a dry system is pretty hit and miss (since you are bypassing nitrous pressure to the vac line on your fpr).

You'll need to set up a WOT activation switch in order to use the wet kit, this is the only plus side the zex dry kit has, you just wire the tps to it and you're done.

I have a really trick little nitrous controller, made by Dynotune nitrous Link, it's $130 and has support for TPS learning, dual stage control, and window (RPM on/off) functions. You should creep over their site, they've got some really cool stuff...like an A/F gauge that will cut off your nitrous if you start to run lean.

95LegendGS · 03-27-08, 10:22 PM

Thanks anyone else with input on which I should buy? I found out the wet kit is a NOS brand. I prefer NOS over zex

Forevralegend · 03-28-08, 12:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 95LegendGS

Thanks anyone else with input on which I should buy? I found out the wet kit is a NOS brand. I prefer NOS over zex

get a dry kit, as long as your not doing a huge shot, your computer will be able to put the right amount of fuel with the nitrous. Both kits are dangerous if used incorrectly. For example if you do too big of a shot using a dry kit, your car wont have the capabilities to apply the right amount of fuel with the stock components. For a wet kit, you are spraying fuel and nitrous into your manifold which could be dangerous as well since it could cause backfires. So both are dangerous in their own ways. I went with a dry kit because its more of a simple set up, im not gonna run huge shots maybe 60-70 shots, and i have a afc to fine tune it on a dyno.

95LegendGS · 03-28-08, 12:36 AM

what does dv8 run? Reason I ask is I'm copying his engine so might as well follow his footsteps

Forevralegend · 03-28-08, 12:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 95LegendGS

what does dv8 run? Reason I ask is I'm copying his engine so might as well follow his footsteps

hes tried everything from direct port to wet and then he settled with dry.. So if your following him, go with a dry set up, maybe he'll chime in with some reasons of why he settled down with a dry set up.

uPnoRthACme · 03-28-08, 12:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 95LegendGS

what does dv8 run? Reason I ask is I'm copying his engine so might as well follow his footsteps

Copy cat.

95LegendGS · 03-28-08, 12:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by uPnoRthACme

Copy cat.

Only thing I'm copying is a RL block with Type 2 top end. Rest is different. Waits for dv8 to chime in.

GrumpySteelMan · 03-28-08, 02:15 PM

You're going to think I'm busting your balls...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Forevralegend

get a dry kit, as long as your not doing a huge shot, your computer will be able to put the right amount of fuel with the nitrous.

This is a common misconception.

The computer doesn't know the difference between nitrous and air. The IAT sensor might see the colder air temperature. However a MAP sensor won't see any difference in manifold pressure. The MAF/AMM, if you shot the nitrous pre-sensor, it would count for 'air' and not nitrous. The meter would measure it as more air, atmospheric oxygen is 23% by weight. Nitrous is 36% oxygen by weight. This would be an obvious mismatch.

I wouldn't inject nitrous pre-MAF/AMM personally, the supercooled nitrous might damage the sensitive parts.

Using the oxygen sensor to trim the fuel when injecting nitrous wouldn't be effective because optimal nitrous A/F ratio is much lower than NA (usually about 13.5) and equal or lower than turbo/supercharged (12.0-13.0). You wouldn't want the ECU correcting the A/F ratio while on nitrous. This isn't an issue because most ECUs go 'open-loop' and virtually ignore the 02 sensor at WOT.

The purpose of the 02 sensor is to trim the fuel injection for economy and emissions purposes, not as a fuel enrichment device.

The additional fuel is added in a dry system by venting nitrous over to the vacuum diaphragm of the fuel pressure regulator, effectively raising fuel rail pressure to compensate for the extra combustion potential of the Nitrous.

The engines 'computer' is your enemy, if anything, in a dry nitrous system.

Quote:

Both kits are dangerous if used incorrectly. For example if you do too big of a shot using a dry kit, your car wont have the capabilities to apply the right amount of fuel with the stock components.

This is 100% accurate. In fact I would NEVER run a shot of over 100hp nitrous dry. My feelings here are that if you're adding that much nitrous it would be best to mix your additional fuel with the nitrous, so you don't risk overly lean cylinders.

Quote:

For a wet kit, you are spraying fuel and nitrous into your manifold which could be dangerous as well since it could cause backfires. So both are dangerous in their own ways.

Backfiring through the intake is usually a problem with vehicles running high overlap cams and large amounts of nitrous.

YouTube - Nitrous Explosion on Dyno

Although if a fuel solenoid fails and puddles fuel in the intake that's a good way to break stuff quick-like.

YouTube - 14.6 2.2L Chevy Cobalt + Nitrous EXPLOSION!

And just for fun here's some proof you can nitrous anything.

YouTube - Mower Vs Nitrous

Quote:

I went with a dry kit because its more of a simple set up, im not gonna run huge shots maybe 60-70 shots, and i have a afc to fine tune it on a dyno.

I'm also running dry on my RL...just because I have a drivetrain warranty so I wanted to be able to pull it out quick-like.

brynosaur · 03-28-08, 02:30 PM

dude that cobalt video is hilarious. loved the shot of the plates at the end.

Forevralegend · 03-28-08, 11:49 PM

So are you saying that the stock computer wont be able to adjust the fuel to compensate for a small nitrous shot? I know that the computer doesn't realize nitrous is being injected but it does notice the temperature change and adds more fuel. I do agree with you on the rest of the stuff though, good info.

GrumpySteelMan · 03-29-08, 12:18 AM

IAT sensors only have the ability to trim fuel by a few percent. Still the colder. denser 'air' reading doesn't account for the higher oxygen content present in the nitrous.

Even if the ECU reacted to the nitrous as you propose, you still wouldn't be at optimal or safe A/F ratio...as the ECU would not be aiming for a calculated or measured sub 13:1 A/F.

Forevralegend · 03-29-08, 12:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GrumpySteelMan

IAT sensors only have the ability to trim fuel by a few percent. Still the colder. denser 'air' reading doesn't account for the higher oxygen content present in the nitrous.

Even if the ECU reacted to the nitrous as you propose, you still wouldn't be at optimal or safe A/F ratio...as the ECU would not be aiming for a calculated or measured sub 13:1 A/F.

hmm what im doing is using an afc to tune the airfuel based on the nitrous shot and using a moates 2timer to change my maps at the time of nitrous injection, retarding the maps by 2 degrees. Once i figure out how much fuel needs to be added i can get a custom chip made with those adjustments, am i going about this the wrong way?

GrumpySteelMan · 03-29-08, 07:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Forevralegend

hmm what im doing is using an afc to tune the airfuel based on the nitrous shot and using a moates 2timer to change my maps at the time of nitrous injection, retarding the maps by 2 degrees. Once i figure out how much fuel needs to be added i can get a custom chip made with those adjustments, am i going about this the wrong way?

I don't think the AFC has any place here. If you're using it to tune the nitrous shot, how are you only using it when the nitrous is activated? Wouldn't you be running nitrous corrected fueling at all times that way? If I misunderstand your setup please clarify.

You certainly need to pull some timing, I usually start with 2 degrees retard and try up to 4. Nitrous in most cases makes more power with a little less timing regardless of the knock threshold. Either way 2 is a good place to be if you don't have more options and time to test.

As far as figuring and getting the custom chip made... Is there any reliable way to translate afc correction factors over to the chip burner? Ideally one would have the chip burned after test runs (with a romulator) on the dyno, but I know this might not be possible. So is the fueling going to be a flip chip also (I don't even know if this is possible for you guys yet)? Otherwise you're no closer to getting it right that route.

As I said, if I missed something, please clarify.

Forevralegend · 03-29-08, 09:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GrumpySteelMan

I don't think the AFC has any place here. If you're using it to tune the nitrous shot, how are you only using it when the nitrous is activated? Wouldn't you be running nitrous corrected fueling at all times that way? If I misunderstand your setup please clarify.

You certainly need to pull some timing, I usually start with 2 degrees retard and try up to 4. Nitrous in most cases makes more power with a little less timing regardless of the knock threshold. Either way 2 is a good place to be if you don't have more options and time to test.

As far as figuring and getting the custom chip made... Is there any reliable way to translate afc correction factors over to the chip burner? Ideally one would have the chip burned after test runs (with a romulator) on the dyno, but I know this might not be possible. So is the fueling going to be a flip chip also (I don't even know if this is possible for you guys yet)? Otherwise you're no closer to getting it right that route.

As I said, if I missed something, please clarify.

there is a setting on the afc that i can change maps from say a nitrous map to an na map, so it wouldn't be running it all the time. But i don't see why i couldn't correlate the data from the afc to a chip later on for that nitrous shot that way i would only run the maps at the time i press the nitrous button. The moates 2timer will read half of the chip with na maps on it, but when its grounded it will read the other half of the chip with the nitrous maps on it, this will allow me to wire it to the nitrous switch.

03-27-08, 11:42 AM	#1 (permalink)
95LegendGS 6 Gears Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Currently TX Posts: 308 Car 1: 95 Legend GS iTrader: (3)	Nitrous Wet/Dry? I have two choices here I can get both kits for pretty cheap. First is the dry kit which is a ZEX Nitrous kit #82011. Then the wet kit 10lb bottle, 75 shot jet unknown brand/kit number.(will find out soon). So my question is which should I buy/which is better? How hard is it to install? I'd like some tips before I buy them so I know what I'm getting into. FYI I will be on standalone when spraying so you don't have to tell me to get a chip. __________________ Parts For Sale: Lightweight crank pulley, T1,T2,RL, WEB Cams, Complete T2 & RL heads, Coupe Taillights, Tinted Sedan Taillights, Sedan Front seats (F), Center Console (F), T1&RL intake Manifold, Complete running engines, body parts, ANYTHING YOU NEED. I have UNLIMITED RL and Legend Parts PM me to discuss.

03-27-08, 10:22 PM	#3 (permalink)
95LegendGS 6 Gears Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Currently TX Posts: 308 Car 1: 95 Legend GS iTrader: (3)	Thanks anyone else with input on which I should buy? I found out the wet kit is a NOS brand. I prefer NOS over zex __________________ Parts For Sale: Lightweight crank pulley, T1,T2,RL, WEB Cams, Complete T2 & RL heads, Coupe Taillights, Tinted Sedan Taillights, Sedan Front seats (F), Center Console (F), T1&RL intake Manifold, Complete running engines, body parts, ANYTHING YOU NEED. I have UNLIMITED RL and Legend Parts PM me to discuss.

03-28-08, 12:36 AM	#5 (permalink)
95LegendGS 6 Gears Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Currently TX Posts: 308 Car 1: 95 Legend GS iTrader: (3)	what does dv8 run? Reason I ask is I'm copying his engine so might as well follow his footsteps __________________ Parts For Sale: Lightweight crank pulley, T1,T2,RL, WEB Cams, Complete T2 & RL heads, Coupe Taillights, Tinted Sedan Taillights, Sedan Front seats (F), Center Console (F), T1&RL intake Manifold, Complete running engines, body parts, ANYTHING YOU NEED. I have UNLIMITED RL and Legend Parts PM me to discuss.

03-28-08, 02:30 PM	#10 (permalink)
brynosaur difficult to kill Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: sacto Posts: 494 Car 1: 1995 L coupe iTrader: (1)	dude that cobalt video is hilarious. loved the shot of the plates at the end. __________________ www.myspace.com/thebestbryan BHG free since 2003 95 L coupe 4AT in cashmere silver 60a urethane mounts FL tie bars (newly installed) sr5guy stage III ecu GB Xdrilled/slotted front n rear machined heads !!brand spankin new gaskets!! (under 10k on em) weapon r

03-28-08, 11:49 PM	#11 (permalink)
Forevralegend Registered User Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Sacramento Posts: 966 Car 1: 94 Legend gs type II iTrader: (10)	So are you saying that the stock computer wont be able to adjust the fuel to compensate for a small nitrous shot? I know that the computer doesn't realize nitrous is being injected but it does notice the temperature change and adds more fuel. I do agree with you on the rest of the stuff though, good info. __________________ mods- 2.5" mandrel exhaust, deleted cat, cold air intake, web cam regrinds, comp cam valve springs, port & polish heads and manifold, tb bypass, egr block, five speed clutch/flywheel, 80a polyurethane mounts all around, type 1 pulley, headers,re-fabed y-pipe, SR5guy Custom Chip, 6speed swap, Apexi safc II, strut bar, F/R sway bars, FL tie bars, tune 243.3 hp 197.7 ftlb N/A dynapack before manual swap 232.8 hp 204.0 ftlb N/A dynojet 10/19/07 13.737 1/4 mile @ 100.207 mph & 2.012 60' NA

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