Standalone Engine Management System and ECU Wire/Pin Diagram - Page 4

**B+O** · 09-30-05, 02:46 PM

okay if i read your questions right you're asking about the activation of the VTEC. and how that effects tuning.

The tuning of the VTEC map itself is pretty straight forward. as with many systems you have full control over fuel and spark. If you wanted to dismiss the VTEC all together you would just tune the engine according to its mechanical performance. what most factory ecu's do is compensate for an auxilary out in the tables for fuel and spark delivery. to tune mechanically you can eliminate the retard or advanced timing and the changes in fuel delivery to accompany that "solenoid output." VTEC itself is active after a certain RPM just like VIS regardless of engine load. so at a certain rpm it activates. you can adjust this with stand alones or some piggybacks using auxilary outputs and instead of factory RPM based, you can have them activate on temperature, rpm, or load... or if you're feeling frisky....all three parameters making a Dr. Jeckle and Mr. Hyde type of engine. or if you wanted you can eliminate it all together using the engine as itself without artificial aid in breathing.

the SRS ABS and several systems are activated by their seperate and corresponding System Controlles.

The NSX based AEM EMS ECU plugs up to the Legend's ECU harness because of the eerie similarities in the basic architecture of the two PCMs. However the base map of the NSX doesn't Idle or run the Legend. Basically you're going to have to tune from scratch.

lol, that's awesome you used to autocross a swift, I didn't think people used the Swift. I always saw storms and Impulse. looks like you were serious about it too, breaking the frame

.

LS92Sedan · 10-01-05, 10:32 AM

ok cool that answered some of the questions for me, it looks like you SHOULD be able to set an RPM for the VIS similar to VTEC *crosses fingers* Only downside is my AEM isn't an NSX specific

and yeah the swift gt was actually a real popular auto x car in its haydays, right about the time the CRX was a popular choice. I cant take full credit for breaking my frame, the frame had started to corrode already and even with proper chassis bracing I broke the frame and the chassis bracing right at the driver side front pivot, right about where the lower control arm sits, I had a lower frame brace in place (pretty strong one too) and it still shifted the frame over about 3 inches maybe 4, that was a WILD ride when it let go too, it even pulled the driver side CV right out of the diff, good thing it did cuz I was gonna push it to the end of the run.

**B+O** · 10-01-05, 12:21 PM

four times i read your post and i missed this one question....

"Another thing I wonder about is with a universal AEM, how hard would it be to lose the VIS all together and tune accordingly?"

with the AEM universal, you'd have to set up VIS as a function. so it would be more work right from the get-go to get VIS activated versus just tuning it disregarding VIS. without vacuum, VIS doesn't work, so you could remove the butterflies or just unplug the vacuum lines to the diaphrams.

now there is 3 stages to VIS in the Legend. NSX uses 2 stage VIS with VTEC. VTEC would be akin to our 3rd stage VIS in timing. if that makes any sense. instead of 3 stage VIS on the intake of the NSX it uses two stage and the "third stage" is the VTEC solenoid

LS92Sedan · 10-01-05, 09:21 PM

figured it would require some extra tuning, think a base NSX map would work? and then retune it from there?

I totally understand the VIS stages. I guess another question about that is, if we were to remove the VIS flaps all together obviously we would lose low end torque, but if we had a custom grind cam made to change the duration and lift, could we regain some of that low end? I have a place that will make me custom regrinds, just a matter of choosing the lift and duration, hell they'll make me billet custom grinds, but the price is outrageous.

**B+O** · 10-01-05, 09:58 PM

oh yea...you could definately make that bottom end torque up given the right overlap and overall duration on some custom ground cams. Im not trying to give too much information out because i dont want to get hopes up. but im trying to see if i can talk to Piper Cams of the UK into something.

But to take advantage of these we'd need to employ some cam gears and that's where it kinda falters. but you said you could possibly have cam gears made up. that'd be great if you could get someone to do that.

as for the NSX's base map, it does not run the car at any point. You have to tune (even the NSX's ECU) from scratch. so a Universal AEM is just a little more work in the wire-up department, but no more or less work with getting the car to run.

LS92Sedan · 10-01-05, 10:22 PM

ok so we have no base map to start with, not a problem just alot of tuning and dyno time involved.

And yes my hopes are to have some adjustable cam gears made, gotta talk to my uncle yet again about getting a blueprint made, plus he could even write the CNC program to have them made, which saves us a ton of $ and hassle in the R&D, this is still in baby stages at the moment, and lucky for us I have a spare set of stock cam gears. I agree custom grinds with adjustable cam gears would be HUGE, it's a matter of gettin it done, I might be lookin for another spare block to do some testing with, I have access to the schools engine shop, just gotta pay to retake the course which is no big deal to me considering the tools and stuff I will have access to.

Kenso · 10-01-05, 11:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bang&Olufsen DK

oh yea...you could definately make that bottom end torque up given the right overlap and overall duration on some custom ground cams. Im not trying to give too much information out because i dont want to get hopes up. but im trying to see if i can talk to Piper Cams of the UK into something.

But to take advantage of these we'd need to employ some cam gears and that's where it kinda falters. but you said you could possibly have cam gears made up. that'd be great if you could get someone to do that.

as for the NSX's base map, it does not run the car at any point. You have to tune (even the NSX's ECU) from scratch. so a Universal AEM is just a little more work in the wire-up department, but no more or less work with getting the car to run.

Imran told me it would start and run on the NSX base map but wouldn't hold an idle at all until he made some adjustments. From what he told me it wasn't TOTALLY off, definitely needed a lot of adjustments but nowhere near as bad as starting from nothing.

*Dv8* · 10-01-05, 11:15 PM

What bugs the crap out of me is that the main person to have these conversations with is for some reason never around, now. IF your going to do something revolutionary and be out for big periods of time, dont bother letting anyone know.

If i have to answer question after question and most of the time its the same question and be prompt about it, why can others?

Never rely on anyone, but yourself. Is my motto.

~TRu Hybrid

Kenso · 10-01-05, 11:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dv8

What bugs the crap out of me is that the main person to have these conversations with is for some reason never around, now. IF your going to do something revolutionary and be out for big periods of time, dont bother letting anyone know.

Never rely on anone but yourself is my motto.

~TRu Hybrid

I mentioned it to him recently, he said he'll post here soon regarding all of this, been busy with school, etc.

*Dv8* · 10-01-05, 11:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kenso

I mentioned it to him recently, he said he'll post here soon regarding all of this, been busy with school, etc.

Ive been busy like most of ya'll too, i'm still here and there.

~TRu Hybrid

LS92Sedan · 10-01-05, 11:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dv8

Never rely on anyone, but yourself. Is my motto.

~TRu Hybrid

sounds like somethin out of a Godfather movie

but very true

I have to agree totally though, this is some VERY usful info for us guys and we would like to learn alot more about it, so obviously talking with him would be the best thing, the rest of us can basically just speculate

Kenso · 10-01-05, 11:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dv8

Ive been busy like most of ya'll too, i'm still here and there.

~TRu Hybrid

Yeah I know, I'm sure people appreciate it too. I think some people just lose interest in the forum at times for different reasons.

LS92Sedan · 10-01-05, 11:27 PM

tell him we have live strippers now, that'll gain some interest

**B+O** · 10-02-05, 01:35 PM

He's not been too busy...he's been on AIM for the last two weeks for hours on end.

"Pacz Legend" if you want to find out more information on it.

Oh and what i've told you is what he told me before we broke communication. So whatever im telling you is what he's told when we were collaborating.

**B+O** · 10-02-05, 01:42 PM

and if you get the NSX AEM get the NSX ecu from the earlier model NSX...like 91-95 or there abouts...that PR7 is the closest relative to the PY3. the Later PR7 had some pins relocated.

09-30-05, 02:46 PM	#46 (permalink)
B+O Welcome Home Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: VSC Moderator Posts: 12,442 Car 1: why? iTrader: (1)	okay if i read your questions right you're asking about the activation of the VTEC. and how that effects tuning. The tuning of the VTEC map itself is pretty straight forward. as with many systems you have full control over fuel and spark. If you wanted to dismiss the VTEC all together you would just tune the engine according to its mechanical performance. what most factory ecu's do is compensate for an auxilary out in the tables for fuel and spark delivery. to tune mechanically you can eliminate the retard or advanced timing and the changes in fuel delivery to accompany that "solenoid output." VTEC itself is active after a certain RPM just like VIS regardless of engine load. so at a certain rpm it activates. you can adjust this with stand alones or some piggybacks using auxilary outputs and instead of factory RPM based, you can have them activate on temperature, rpm, or load... or if you're feeling frisky....all three parameters making a Dr. Jeckle and Mr. Hyde type of engine. or if you wanted you can eliminate it all together using the engine as itself without artificial aid in breathing. the SRS ABS and several systems are activated by their seperate and corresponding System Controlles. The NSX based AEM EMS ECU plugs up to the Legend's ECU harness because of the eerie similarities in the basic architecture of the two PCMs. However the base map of the NSX doesn't Idle or run the Legend. Basically you're going to have to tune from scratch. lol, that's awesome you used to autocross a swift, I didn't think people used the Swift. I always saw storms and Impulse. looks like you were serious about it too, breaking the frame.

10-01-05, 11:15 PM	#53 (permalink)
Dv8 Banned Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: CA Posts: 4,889 Car 1: 91' 3.5lt Extreme DV8ED Hybrid 6spd Car 2: 03' G35c Blk on Blk Car 3: 92'Yukon/06'Trailer iTrader: (11)	What bugs the crap out of me is that the main person to have these conversations with is for some reason never around, now. IF your going to do something revolutionary and be out for big periods of time, dont bother letting anyone know. If i have to answer question after question and most of the time its the same question and be prompt about it, why can others? Never rely on anyone, but yourself. Is my motto. ~TRu Hybrid __________________ AEM EMS Powered. 9 yrs and counting. Results, Where are yours? 12.953@107.865MPH 95 deg. Jun. 07' 3.5 6spd-#55 jet Nitrous 316WHP@5500RPM 345Lb-ft@4100RPM NOS 06-07'N/A 234WHP@5700RPM 229lb-ft@4600RPM 06-07' 13.782@99.135MPH N/A 95 deg. Jun 07' 03' G35c Auto Vortech Supercharged pshhhh 311WHP 274WTQ13.1@102MPH-on the brakes(108MPH) Hand fabbed Go-Kart 18whp 24wtq 8 page spread Honda Tuning 09-06' issue PM or Email only. Respect that! My Legends Website www.2slik4u.com Last edited by Dv8 : 10-01-05 at 11:23 PM.

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10-01-05, 10:32 AM	#47 (permalink)
LS92Sedan Registered User Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Brew City Posts: 1,789 Car 1: 94 L Sedan Canterbury Green Car 2: 94 L Sedan White Car 3: (RIP) 92 L Sedan iTrader: (0)	ok cool that answered some of the questions for me, it looks like you SHOULD be able to set an RPM for the VIS similar to VTEC crosses fingers Only downside is my AEM isn't an NSX specific and yeah the swift gt was actually a real popular auto x car in its haydays, right about the time the CRX was a popular choice. I cant take full credit for breaking my frame, the frame had started to corrode already and even with proper chassis bracing I broke the frame and the chassis bracing right at the driver side front pivot, right about where the lower control arm sits, I had a lower frame brace in place (pretty strong one too) and it still shifted the frame over about 3 inches maybe 4, that was a WILD ride when it let go too, it even pulled the driver side CV right out of the diff, good thing it did cuz I was gonna push it to the end of the run.

10-01-05, 12:21 PM	#48 (permalink)
B+O Welcome Home Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: VSC Moderator Posts: 12,442 Car 1: why? iTrader: (1)	four times i read your post and i missed this one question.... "Another thing I wonder about is with a universal AEM, how hard would it be to lose the VIS all together and tune accordingly?" with the AEM universal, you'd have to set up VIS as a function. so it would be more work right from the get-go to get VIS activated versus just tuning it disregarding VIS. without vacuum, VIS doesn't work, so you could remove the butterflies or just unplug the vacuum lines to the diaphrams. now there is 3 stages to VIS in the Legend. NSX uses 2 stage VIS with VTEC. VTEC would be akin to our 3rd stage VIS in timing. if that makes any sense. instead of 3 stage VIS on the intake of the NSX it uses two stage and the "third stage" is the VTEC solenoid

10-01-05, 09:21 PM	#49 (permalink)
LS92Sedan Registered User Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Brew City Posts: 1,789 Car 1: 94 L Sedan Canterbury Green Car 2: 94 L Sedan White Car 3: (RIP) 92 L Sedan iTrader: (0)	figured it would require some extra tuning, think a base NSX map would work? and then retune it from there? I totally understand the VIS stages. I guess another question about that is, if we were to remove the VIS flaps all together obviously we would lose low end torque, but if we had a custom grind cam made to change the duration and lift, could we regain some of that low end? I have a place that will make me custom regrinds, just a matter of choosing the lift and duration, hell they'll make me billet custom grinds, but the price is outrageous.

10-01-05, 09:58 PM	#50 (permalink)
B+O Welcome Home Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: VSC Moderator Posts: 12,442 Car 1: why? iTrader: (1)	oh yea...you could definately make that bottom end torque up given the right overlap and overall duration on some custom ground cams. Im not trying to give too much information out because i dont want to get hopes up. but im trying to see if i can talk to Piper Cams of the UK into something. But to take advantage of these we'd need to employ some cam gears and that's where it kinda falters. but you said you could possibly have cam gears made up. that'd be great if you could get someone to do that. as for the NSX's base map, it does not run the car at any point. You have to tune (even the NSX's ECU) from scratch. so a Universal AEM is just a little more work in the wire-up department, but no more or less work with getting the car to run.

10-01-05, 10:22 PM	#51 (permalink)
LS92Sedan Registered User Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Brew City Posts: 1,789 Car 1: 94 L Sedan Canterbury Green Car 2: 94 L Sedan White Car 3: (RIP) 92 L Sedan iTrader: (0)	ok so we have no base map to start with, not a problem just alot of tuning and dyno time involved. And yes my hopes are to have some adjustable cam gears made, gotta talk to my uncle yet again about getting a blueprint made, plus he could even write the CNC program to have them made, which saves us a ton of $ and hassle in the R&D, this is still in baby stages at the moment, and lucky for us I have a spare set of stock cam gears. I agree custom grinds with adjustable cam gears would be HUGE, it's a matter of gettin it done, I might be lookin for another spare block to do some testing with, I have access to the schools engine shop, just gotta pay to retake the course which is no big deal to me considering the tools and stuff I will have access to.

10-01-05, 11:27 PM	#58 (permalink)
LS92Sedan Registered User Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Brew City Posts: 1,789 Car 1: 94 L Sedan Canterbury Green Car 2: 94 L Sedan White Car 3: (RIP) 92 L Sedan iTrader: (0)	tell him we have live strippers now, that'll gain some interest

10-02-05, 01:35 PM	#59 (permalink)
B+O Welcome Home Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: VSC Moderator Posts: 12,442 Car 1: why? iTrader: (1)	He's not been too busy...he's been on AIM for the last two weeks for hours on end. "Pacz Legend" if you want to find out more information on it. Oh and what i've told you is what he told me before we broke communication. So whatever im telling you is what he's told when we were collaborating.

10-02-05, 01:42 PM	#60 (permalink)
B+O Welcome Home Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: VSC Moderator Posts: 12,442 Car 1: why? iTrader: (1)	and if you get the NSX AEM get the NSX ecu from the earlier model NSX...like 91-95 or there abouts...that PR7 is the closest relative to the PY3. the Later PR7 had some pins relocated.

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