Stainless Steel Brake Line Failure

pacallen · 04-22-08, 07:43 PM

In the ongoing debate between stainless steel braided lines and oem rubber lines, we always said no one had ever had a stainless steel line fail, until now. My right rear line broke internally (the shorter of the two) and I ended up with no brakes. Here's the kicker... the lines are about 4 months old! I'm in the process of getting a replacement (they have a lifetime warranty) but am wondering if it's something to do with the braiding that caused premature failure?

As a temporary fix, I limped to the junkyard with a combination of engine braking and e-braking in hopes that I could find a G1 coupe to cannibalize. Unfortunatly there were no G1s (

) but there were a number of G2s... The place was about to close so I snatched a rear line from a '93 G2 sedan, and I was very lucky to find out that it fit perfectly (it's a lot longer than I needed but the fittings are exactly the same). Should do until I get a replacement...

paulo57509 · 04-22-08, 07:51 PM

For anyone installing or planning to install braided hoses for any type of service (brakes, cooling, luberication, etc.): you just can't slap on a replacement set of braided hoses and drive down the road. There are other considerations that need to be taken into account. C&P the link:

http://www.holley.com/data/Catalogs/Earl's%20Technical%20Info.pdf

Pay particular attention to Page 13.

pacallen · 04-22-08, 08:03 PM

Page 13 on that link you provided is what I think may have caused the premature failure, in particular the section about bend radius. The second short hose from the caliper to the steel line (the one that failed) has quite a tight bend and the excess strain is probably what caused it to tear. I'm not sure if the OEM lines are molded differently but the lines I bought were all straight and required quite a bit of force to bend/secure tightly.

90Legend L · 04-22-08, 09:41 PM

When a brake line ruptures, don't you still have brakes on 2 wheels? I thought that there were 2 separate fluid circuits in the master cylinder: one for the front left and rear right and the other for the front right and rear left. Is that not true?

eekazum · 04-23-08, 03:32 AM

^^^ i thought so too.

pacallen · 04-23-08, 07:09 AM

I've had brake lines break on me three times... Once on my '87 and now twice on my '89. Each time I lost almost all braking because the fluid in the master cylinder drained out. I say almost because if I did floor the pedal, I did get a minimal amount of braking and the car did pull to the right supporting the independent system idea...

90Legend L · 04-23-08, 10:21 AM

I'm wondering if your master cylinder is working correctly, or if there is possibly another problem on your car. I wrecked my 72 Cadillac when I blew a front brake hose (long time ago). I was driving the car with one of the brake circuits already failed (I didn't know this at the time). When the second line ruptured, I had no brakes and crashed into a car ahead of me. I was told that if the first brake circuit hadn't already been dead, then this second rupture would not have caused a complete loss of braking. Just something to think about.

murderotica · 04-23-08, 05:46 PM

Alls I know is... oem rubber lines ftw!

=p. That's scary though, I'm glad you're alright.

I experienced a similar pull to the side when my master cylinder went out, and then again when my brake lines went out after replacing the master cylinder.

GrumpySteelMan · 04-23-08, 07:55 PM

If he didn't realize his brakes were out quite quickly, he probably lost so much fluid that the whole system went to shit. I've lost a caliper before and still had brakes as long as I pumped the pedal to get stopped, the first time.

You know how solid brake lines are usually looped and bent in seemingly senseless ways before connecting to the master cylinder? This is to help take the chassis flex stress off the lines and distribute it over a larger area.

As far as PTFE SS braided line, most people think the stuff is indestructible, but it isn't. That's a great link! If you don't secure the line itself it can wear a hole in whatever it rubs against as well. I've had it rub through a valve cover, because I didn't know any better.

holymoo · 04-23-08, 08:17 PM

Personally, I wouldn't put ss brake lines in any of my cars. Even though they may last longer there is no easy way to inspect them to make sure they need to be replaced. SS brake lines also have a tendency to epicly rupture and eliminate all braking power in the vehicle.

murderotica · 04-23-08, 08:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GrumpySteelMan

If he didn't realize his brakes were out quite quickly, he probably lost so much fluid that the whole system went to shit. I've lost a caliper before and still had brakes as long as I pumped the pedal to get stopped, the first time.

Ahhhh that makes sense.
You lost an entire caliper?! That sounds quite precarious haha.

Quote:

Originally Posted by GrumpySteelMan

You know how solid brake lines are usually looped and bent in seemingly senseless ways before connecting to the master cylinder? This is to help take the chassis flex stress off the lines and distribute it over a larger area.

Ahhhh very good to know. Makes sense as well when you think about it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by GrumpySteelMan

As far as PTFE SS braided line, most people think the stuff is indestructible, but it isn't.

I think that's probably the most common belief about SS lines...

kotetu · 07-04-08, 12:23 AM

I have been toying with the idea of having SS Brake lines made by slipping SS sleeves over rubber lines. It would add the SS expansion resistance and blingyness to the rubber lines.

quanaman · 07-04-08, 12:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kotetu

I have been toying with the idea of having SS Brake lines made by slipping SS sleeves over rubber lines. It would add the SS expansion resistance and blingyness to the rubber lines.

could it possibly cut into the lines over time?

just a thought

04-22-08, 07:43 PM	#1 (permalink)
pacallen ------------------------- Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Chicago Posts: 1,698 Car 1: '89 LS Coupe (5 speed) iTrader: (0)	Stainless Steel Brake Line Failure In the ongoing debate between stainless steel braided lines and oem rubber lines, we always said no one had ever had a stainless steel line fail, until now. My right rear line broke internally (the shorter of the two) and I ended up with no brakes. Here's the kicker... the lines are about 4 months old! I'm in the process of getting a replacement (they have a lifetime warranty) but am wondering if it's something to do with the braiding that caused premature failure? As a temporary fix, I limped to the junkyard with a combination of engine braking and e-braking in hopes that I could find a G1 coupe to cannibalize. Unfortunatly there were no G1s ( ) but there were a number of G2s... The place was about to close so I snatched a rear line from a '93 G2 sedan, and I was very lucky to find out that it fit perfectly (it's a lot longer than I needed but the fittings are exactly the same). Should do until I get a replacement... __________________ SOLD: '87 Auto Sedan (12/31/2003)

04-22-08, 07:51 PM	#2 (permalink)
paulo57509 Registered User Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Tracy, CA Posts: 1,534 iTrader: (0)	For anyone installing or planning to install braided hoses for any type of service (brakes, cooling, luberication, etc.): you just can't slap on a replacement set of braided hoses and drive down the road. There are other considerations that need to be taken into account. C&P the link: http://www.holley.com/data/Catalogs/Earl's%20Technical%20Info.pdf Pay particular attention to Page 13. __________________ '87 L-Coupe 5-Speed Stock; NO Mods 392K Miles - original engine and drivetrain.

04-22-08, 08:03 PM	#3 (permalink)
pacallen ------------------------- Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Chicago Posts: 1,698 Car 1: '89 LS Coupe (5 speed) iTrader: (0)	Page 13 on that link you provided is what I think may have caused the premature failure, in particular the section about bend radius. The second short hose from the caliper to the steel line (the one that failed) has quite a tight bend and the excess strain is probably what caused it to tear. I'm not sure if the OEM lines are molded differently but the lines I bought were all straight and required quite a bit of force to bend/secure tightly. __________________ SOLD: '87 Auto Sedan (12/31/2003)

04-23-08, 07:09 AM	#6 (permalink)
pacallen ------------------------- Join Date: Oct 2003 Location: Chicago Posts: 1,698 Car 1: '89 LS Coupe (5 speed) iTrader: (0)	I've had brake lines break on me three times... Once on my '87 and now twice on my '89. Each time I lost almost all braking because the fluid in the master cylinder drained out. I say almost because if I did floor the pedal, I did get a minimal amount of braking and the car did pull to the right supporting the independent system idea... __________________ SOLD: '87 Auto Sedan (12/31/2003)

04-23-08, 07:55 PM	#9 (permalink)
GrumpySteelMan Find Em Fuck Em Forget Em Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Greensboro, NC Posts: 982 Car 1: 2004 Nighthawk RL Car 2: 2005 Nighthawk TL Car 3: 2002 525i Sport Wag iTrader: (0)	If he didn't realize his brakes were out quite quickly, he probably lost so much fluid that the whole system went to shit. I've lost a caliper before and still had brakes as long as I pumped the pedal to get stopped, the first time. You know how solid brake lines are usually looped and bent in seemingly senseless ways before connecting to the master cylinder? This is to help take the chassis flex stress off the lines and distribute it over a larger area. As far as PTFE SS braided line, most people think the stuff is indestructible, but it isn't. That's a great link! If you don't secure the line itself it can wear a hole in whatever it rubs against as well. I've had it rub through a valve cover, because I didn't know any better. __________________ "A gentleman is one who never hurts anyone's feelings unintentionally." -Oscar Wilde 3.5RL With/Without Nitrous Comparo Video

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04-22-08, 09:41 PM	#4 (permalink)
90Legend L Legend driver Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Dayton, OH Posts: 145 Car 1: 1990 Legend L Sedan Car 2: 2000 Accord Car 3: 2005 Odyssey iTrader: (0)	When a brake line ruptures, don't you still have brakes on 2 wheels? I thought that there were 2 separate fluid circuits in the master cylinder: one for the front left and rear right and the other for the front right and rear left. Is that not true?

04-23-08, 03:32 AM	#5 (permalink)
eekazum rising chuckmaster Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: LA Posts: 399 Car 1: grandpa gold 89 L coupe 280k Car 2: red 89 L coupe 5-spd Car 3: red 90 teg iTrader: (0)	^^^ i thought so too.

04-23-08, 10:21 AM	#7 (permalink)
90Legend L Legend driver Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Dayton, OH Posts: 145 Car 1: 1990 Legend L Sedan Car 2: 2000 Accord Car 3: 2005 Odyssey iTrader: (0)	I'm wondering if your master cylinder is working correctly, or if there is possibly another problem on your car. I wrecked my 72 Cadillac when I blew a front brake hose (long time ago). I was driving the car with one of the brake circuits already failed (I didn't know this at the time). When the second line ruptured, I had no brakes and crashed into a car ahead of me. I was told that if the first brake circuit hadn't already been dead, then this second rupture would not have caused a complete loss of braking. Just something to think about.

04-23-08, 08:17 PM	#10 (permalink)
holymoo Registered User Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Reading, PA Posts: 69 Car 1: 1988 Acura Legend Coupe Car 2: 1993 Nissan Altima iTrader: (0)	Personally, I wouldn't put ss brake lines in any of my cars. Even though they may last longer there is no easy way to inspect them to make sure they need to be replaced. SS brake lines also have a tendency to epicly rupture and eliminate all braking power in the vehicle. __________________ _______________________ I don't know if it's just me, but I can't help but giggle a bit when people refer to transmission fluid as tranny fluid...

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