Advance Timing

JLegendLS · 07-28-02, 09:12 PM

Anyone advance the timing on their G1's? If so can u post a DIY?

paulo57509 · 07-28-02, 10:33 PM

Why do you want to do this?

The timing adjuster is in the black box under the hood. You'll need to drill rwo rivets to get the cover off of the timing adjuster.

But, this adjustment won't advance the timing much more than a couple of degrees.

JLegendLS · 07-28-02, 10:40 PM

some say better gas milage, little more power...

RICDOGG · 07-29-02, 02:15 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by paulo57509
Why do you want to do this?

The tining adjuster is in the black box under the hood. You'll need to drill rwo rivets to get the cover off of the timing adjuster.

But, this adjustment won't advance the timing much for than a couple of degrees.

you cant adjust using the distributor??

JLegendLS · 07-29-02, 12:05 PM

i never heard of that...

cdndvl · 07-30-02, 03:16 PM

The computer strictly controls the timing... You will get a code and bad performance if you try to mess with it !! (I've tried)

rafto · 07-30-02, 05:17 PM

I advanced the timing on my first car ('73 Capri). Sure I got better mileage and performance, but it pinged like mad under acceleration.

I don't know if the G1's have a knock senser, but if you advance the timing too much and it starts pinging, the computer will retard the timing anyway to control the pinging.

If you try to mess with computer-controlled stuff you can get into trouble.

Someone on eBay is selling a timing advance kit, but I have no idea if they are any good.

89LCoupe · 07-31-02, 12:27 AM

It looks like they are just a resistor for the air temp sensor - I'm dubious about those ebay posts which list the same part for every car ever built.

anybody know if they work??

rich

Sterling · 07-31-02, 08:26 PM

I'm over in the UK, and drive a 1993 Rover Sterling which has the Honda/Accura 2.7 V6 engine (The car is based on the Legend G1)
Earlier versions of this car were sold in the USA for a few years from 1987

Due to the high price of petrol (US=gasoline) over here I've converted the car to run on LPG which costs half the price

The interesting thing is that LPG is 102 octane, which means the engine can stand a far greater ignition advance without pinking (US=pinging) hence higher efficiency

I've adjusted the potentiometer in the black box, but can't get the amount of advance I need

A group of Rover owners over here are about to start playing with the ECU program to try to achieve greater advance. I'm waiting for a spare ECU arriving atm so I don't need to dismantle the one from my car. I'll keep posting any progress we make, but it's likely to be a long task. If anyone on here can contribute with ROM images etc. it would be most useful

Members may be interested in the full set of factory manuals which we have in PDF on CD. The engine and PGM-FI diagnostics will be identical to the Legend G1. If anyone is interested I can mail them a disk so long as they are prepared to burn copies and distribute them to other members

We also have a mailing group with 550 members at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rover800/

Andy Sykes
rover800@f2s.com

cdndvl · 08-01-02, 05:30 PM

Cool Raft0 !!! I used to own a 1974 and a 1976 Capri !! Great cars !!

firestorm · 08-11-02, 01:20 AM

Would it work to increase performance if you advanced the timing a couple degrees and then used premium fuel? Just a thought. (I know very little about timing)

FutureX 2001 · 08-16-02, 05:18 AM

Qood questions, Keeping an eye on this thread. Rover 825s and 827s are basically the same thing mechanically. Let us know how it goes.

slugman · 08-20-02, 11:58 PM

I dont know about later years but for 86 the timing looks to be all mechanical. There is no knock sensor for sure. Pinging is badness hehe...

pyros88legendcoupe · 09-02-02, 04:09 PM

hi , i dont know alot about advancing or retarding timeing and how much of a affect it has on our cars. any info would be great.
but i do know a fair amount about electronics. judgeing from a few posts ive read you can manualy change the timeing +/- 3 degrees by opening the black box and turning the poteniometer in there. And if there is a potenometer ( i know spelling is wrong) you can make any range of inputs for the computer. Now this is assuming that the computer isnt programed to a few certain ohms and triggers timing accordingly( i doubt it ). a potenomter is a variable resistor, meaning you can adjust from say 1-100 ohms resistance or 50-300 ohms or whatever you want. so haveing this in mind it is quite simple to take the potenometer out of our black box and check between the 2 post what the resistance is then turn the potenomter, you will find its ohm range. Potenomters have 2 inputs and 1 output i think , or vice versa, it dosnt matter just find the 2 contacts pos and neg that change resistants when you turn the potenomter. now you can either put in another potenometer . that will vary through a larger range beyond stock ( this will change the input on the computer fro timeing makeing it retard or advance more ). or put a resistor in there ( thats the stupid kit on the internet) resistors cost 5 cents so dont buy the ones on the internet. look up the ohms laws on the internet. they are very simple and figure out what resistance range you have. now you should be able to make a +/- 180 deg timeing adjust if you wanted to. It all depends on how far the computer will accept differnt input ranges. and if it has a cut off where it goes into safe mode or just stops advanceing/retarding. This is all in theory. i dont know exactly how are legend engines work. now i can't assure this will work but if done correctly it would be hard to do anything wrong to your car. just make sure you turn the poteniometer slowly. any ideas ?
i hope i helped.

P.S. the dude that changed his timeing and said the computer controls timeing so it just messed things up please clarify. because the potenometer should control the computer directly so it already knows and should take advantage of it

Eli (NJ) · 09-04-02, 02:23 PM

Some vehicles come from the factory with retarded timing, for many reasons, to compensate for bad fuel, longer engine life, less noise, etc. There's usually more performance hidden in these engines with just 4 or 5 degrees of advance. I've done this to 3 different cars with positive results, more power, better response, and better economy. I plan to do this on the Legend as well one day. If anyone plans to tackle this, just remember to mark the current position of the adjuster, this way if you get lost, you can always return to the original setting.
Eli.

07-28-02, 09:12 PM	#1 (permalink)
JLegendLS Registered User Join Date: May 2002 Location: NY Posts: 71 Car 1: 89 Sedan iTrader: (0)	Advance Timing Anyone advance the timing on their G1's? If so can u post a DIY? __________________ J

07-28-02, 10:33 PM	#2 (permalink)
paulo57509 Registered User Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Tracy, CA Posts: 1,534 iTrader: (0)	Why do you want to do this? The timing adjuster is in the black box under the hood. You'll need to drill rwo rivets to get the cover off of the timing adjuster. But, this adjustment won't advance the timing much more than a couple of degrees. __________________ '87 L-Coupe 5-Speed Stock; NO Mods 392K Miles - original engine and drivetrain. Last edited by paulo57509 : 07-30-02 at 03:33 PM.

07-28-02, 10:40 PM	#3 (permalink)
JLegendLS Registered User Join Date: May 2002 Location: NY Posts: 71 Car 1: 89 Sedan iTrader: (0)	some say better gas milage, little more power... __________________ J

07-29-02, 12:05 PM	#5 (permalink)
JLegendLS Registered User Join Date: May 2002 Location: NY Posts: 71 Car 1: 89 Sedan iTrader: (0)	i never heard of that... __________________ J

07-30-02, 03:16 PM	#6 (permalink)
cdndvl Registered User Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Kelowna, BC, Canada Posts: 274 Car 1: Dark grey 1990 L Sedan iTrader: (0)	The computer strictly controls the timing... You will get a code and bad performance if you try to mess with it !! (I've tried) __________________ 1990 Legend L 5 speed sedan 17" chrome rims Weapon R intake Tinted windows Pioneer stereo system GTech Pro Brembo cross-drilled rotors/Metalmaster pads all round

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07-30-02, 05:17 PM	#7 (permalink)
rafto Legend Owner for 20+ yrs Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Yorba Linda, CA Posts: 353 Car 1: 1987 White Sedan Car 2: 2000 Chevy Suburban iTrader: (0)	I advanced the timing on my first car ('73 Capri). Sure I got better mileage and performance, but it pinged like mad under acceleration. I don't know if the G1's have a knock senser, but if you advance the timing too much and it starts pinging, the computer will retard the timing anyway to control the pinging. If you try to mess with computer-controlled stuff you can get into trouble. Someone on eBay is selling a timing advance kit, but I have no idea if they are any good. __________________ '87 Legend Sedan - Original owner - 196K miles No mods except for stereo unit and speakers '04 GMC Yukon XL SLT (wife's)

07-31-02, 12:27 AM	#8 (permalink)
89LCoupe Registered User Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 348 Car 1: 1989 Silver L Coupe iTrader: (0)	what's the deal with those timing kits It looks like they are just a resistor for the air temp sensor - I'm dubious about those ebay posts which list the same part for every car ever built. anybody know if they work?? rich __________________ 1989 L Coupe Silver / Tan Leather Custom Intake Mesh Grilles Tinted Windows Custom Shifter Bumper Fogs Big Stezza & Twin 10" Subs Alarm/Immob/Keyless Entry 200,000 Kms

07-31-02, 08:26 PM	#9 (permalink)
Sterling Registered User Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: England Posts: 1 iTrader: (0)	I'm over in the UK, and drive a 1993 Rover Sterling which has the Honda/Accura 2.7 V6 engine (The car is based on the Legend G1) Earlier versions of this car were sold in the USA for a few years from 1987 Due to the high price of petrol (US=gasoline) over here I've converted the car to run on LPG which costs half the price The interesting thing is that LPG is 102 octane, which means the engine can stand a far greater ignition advance without pinking (US=pinging) hence higher efficiency I've adjusted the potentiometer in the black box, but can't get the amount of advance I need A group of Rover owners over here are about to start playing with the ECU program to try to achieve greater advance. I'm waiting for a spare ECU arriving atm so I don't need to dismantle the one from my car. I'll keep posting any progress we make, but it's likely to be a long task. If anyone on here can contribute with ROM images etc. it would be most useful Members may be interested in the full set of factory manuals which we have in PDF on CD. The engine and PGM-FI diagnostics will be identical to the Legend G1. If anyone is interested I can mail them a disk so long as they are prepared to burn copies and distribute them to other members We also have a mailing group with 550 members at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rover800/ Andy Sykes rover800@f2s.com

08-01-02, 05:30 PM	#10 (permalink)
cdndvl Registered User Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Kelowna, BC, Canada Posts: 274 Car 1: Dark grey 1990 L Sedan iTrader: (0)	Rafto Cool Raft0 !!! I used to own a 1974 and a 1976 Capri !! Great cars !! __________________ 1990 Legend L 5 speed sedan 17" chrome rims Weapon R intake Tinted windows Pioneer stereo system GTech Pro Brembo cross-drilled rotors/Metalmaster pads all round

08-11-02, 01:20 AM	#11 (permalink)
firestorm Registered User Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Alpharetta, GA Posts: 604 Car 1: 90' Coupe iTrader: (0)	Would it work to increase performance if you advanced the timing a couple degrees and then used premium fuel? Just a thought. (I know very little about timing) __________________ <b><u>'90 Coupe LS</b></u> <font size=1 color=black ><b> 20% tint, Clear bumper lenses, Mesh grill, Custom taillights, Custom Gauge Cluster, Hyperwhite lows/fogs/running, Interior sound activated neons, Kenwood 10 disc CD/Head-in, ADS component speakers, Nakamichi 4 Ch. amp, Pioneer GM-X962 amp, Custom enclosed Audiobahn 10's, Sound Control Equalizer, Blood-red valve covers, Front Strut Brace, Bilstein Performance Struts, 180,000 miles </font></b> <img src="http://kepler.covenant.edu/~beerman/carSig.jpg"> Check it out at: <a href="http://members.cardomain.com/firestormx " target="_blank">http://members.cardomain.com/firestormx </a> or <a href="http://kepler.covenant.edu/~beerman/carIndex.html" target="_blank">http://kepler.covenant.edu/~beerman/carIndex.html</a>

08-16-02, 05:18 AM	#12 (permalink)
FutureX 2001 L E G E N D Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Montebello, CA Posts: 4,326 Car 1: '95 Coupe Car 2: '94 Sedan GS Car 3: '90 Coupe iTrader: (2)	Qood questions, Keeping an eye on this thread. Rover 825s and 827s are basically the same thing mechanically. Let us know how it goes. __________________

08-20-02, 11:58 PM	#13 (permalink)
slugman Kielbasa Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Redwood City, CA Posts: 157 Car 1: White 86 sedan iTrader: (0)	I dont know about later years but for 86 the timing looks to be all mechanical. There is no knock sensor for sure. Pinging is badness hehe... __________________ http://www.livejournal.com/userpic/13735049/1021432

09-02-02, 04:09 PM	#14 (permalink)
pyros88legendcoupe Registered User Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: oliver Posts: 552 Car 1: 88 legend coupe L - JDM eng iTrader: (0)	hi , i dont know alot about advancing or retarding timeing and how much of a affect it has on our cars. any info would be great. but i do know a fair amount about electronics. judgeing from a few posts ive read you can manualy change the timeing +/- 3 degrees by opening the black box and turning the poteniometer in there. And if there is a potenometer ( i know spelling is wrong) you can make any range of inputs for the computer. Now this is assuming that the computer isnt programed to a few certain ohms and triggers timing accordingly( i doubt it ). a potenomter is a variable resistor, meaning you can adjust from say 1-100 ohms resistance or 50-300 ohms or whatever you want. so haveing this in mind it is quite simple to take the potenometer out of our black box and check between the 2 post what the resistance is then turn the potenomter, you will find its ohm range. Potenomters have 2 inputs and 1 output i think , or vice versa, it dosnt matter just find the 2 contacts pos and neg that change resistants when you turn the potenomter. now you can either put in another potenometer . that will vary through a larger range beyond stock ( this will change the input on the computer fro timeing makeing it retard or advance more ). or put a resistor in there ( thats the stupid kit on the internet) resistors cost 5 cents so dont buy the ones on the internet. look up the ohms laws on the internet. they are very simple and figure out what resistance range you have. now you should be able to make a +/- 180 deg timeing adjust if you wanted to. It all depends on how far the computer will accept differnt input ranges. and if it has a cut off where it goes into safe mode or just stops advanceing/retarding. This is all in theory. i dont know exactly how are legend engines work. now i can't assure this will work but if done correctly it would be hard to do anything wrong to your car. just make sure you turn the poteniometer slowly. any ideas ? i hope i helped. P.S. the dude that changed his timeing and said the computer controls timeing so it just messed things up please clarify. because the potenometer should control the computer directly so it already knows and should take advantage of it __________________ 88 Legend coupe L Auto c27a1 JDM Engine non-cat version 9.4 c/r currently :dead auto 86 Legend 4d auto c25a1 currently:stock and running, soon to recieve my 88s JDM motor and manual tranny Last edited by pyros88legendcoupe : 09-04-02 at 02:38 AM.

09-04-02, 02:23 PM	#15 (permalink)
Eli (NJ) Registered User Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Northern NJ Posts: 108 iTrader: (0)	Some vehicles come from the factory with retarded timing, for many reasons, to compensate for bad fuel, longer engine life, less noise, etc. There's usually more performance hidden in these engines with just 4 or 5 degrees of advance. I've done this to 3 different cars with positive results, more power, better response, and better economy. I plan to do this on the Legend as well one day. If anyone plans to tackle this, just remember to mark the current position of the adjuster, this way if you get lost, you can always return to the original setting. Eli. __________________ '90 Coupe L 5 Spd, stock

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