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Engine & Performance Modifications Discuss Engine and performance modifications to make your G1 outrun all the rest!


       

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Old 10-05-07, 07:31 PM   #1 (permalink)
His name is Robert Palson
 
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CAI vs Short Ram...an un-scientific approach...

Cold Air Intake and Short Ram Intake....

Which is better? Cold air or more air? The answer is "both." You want to have more filter area, but you also want to be bringing in cool air from outside of the engine bay. How much cooler? Well, see for yourself.

In all of the following pictures, the fender well where the air filter is housed is represented by the Temp Gauge on the left while the engine bay's temperature is represented on the right.

I warmed up the car to normal operating temperature (allowed the fans to come on twice) and then drove around for a while before officially starting to record the temperatures. Outside ambient temperature during the test was about 60 degrees F (it was much more chilly today than it's been for a while).

First: Allowed to idle for 5 minutes



The underhood temperature fluctuated between 130 and 135 which coincided with the fans coming on. It was definitely interesting to watch

Second: Cruise for 7-10 minutes at 45 mph


Both temperatures dropped significantly. The fender temp went as low as 65. But they both leveled off around these temps (67 and 89) before I finally took the pic.

Third: Cruise at lower, neighborhood speeds. 30 mph for about 10 minutes.


Engine bay temp rose back up though it was still quite cooler than at idle. The fender temp rose, at most, a mere 5 degrees.

UPDATE
Took a trip to Simi Valley today. 70-80 mph the whole way (30 minutes on the highway) at 75 degrees ambient temperature.

Cruise at Highway Speeds for 30 minutes


The temp leveled off and stayed at this temp even as the outside temperature rose from the beach to the valley. It also stayed fairly steady while the engine was under load while going up a steep 3-mile grade...

Heat Soak Max


After a 30 minute highway run and sitting outside in 75 degree weather, this was the max temp reached in the fender well and under the hood...

Night time cruise home on Highway (30 minutes, same route)


Temperature was about 60 degrees at 70-80 mph the whole way.

Now for my setup:

C25a Manual Tranny with Homemade CAI:


Cold Air Intake is built from 4 90 degree elbows of PVC





Now for some Mythbusting:
It has been debated on many a car forum whether PVC is suitable for intake construction. It's a well known fact that when heated, PVC can melt, deform, and (worst of all) start to release fumes that can be toxic to both engine and occupant. Some say it WILL AND DOES happen, while others argue that the engine bay just doesn't get hot enough.

Well I decided to go straight to the horse's mouth. I asked a contractor what the temp rating of this PVC was. He was stumped. He called the manufacturer and we were informed that this particular PVC is rated up to 180 degrees for safe use. At 210+ degrees it will start to release the fumes. As the temps continue to rise, it will start to lose its shape and eventually start to melt.

One thing that I found interesting was that the company also produces ABS and stated that although it has a higher temperature rating, once it DOES begin to melt is releases fumes that are FAR MORE TOXIC than those released by PVC. Hmmmm.....

So if your car ever catches fire, head for the hills...or at least inform the fire department of the health hazard.

Anyhow, this material will only be temporary for me as I have something better waiting in the wings. But I digress...

I have another part to this un-scientific experiment that I will have to add to this thread at a later time. In short, I will be adding cold air to the stock air box in an attempt to stop biting my nails thinking about hydrolock come the first heavy rain storm.

For now, though, it looks like CAI > SRI (but I didn't have to tell you that now did I?)

Last edited by sam o nela : 10-07-07 at 02:55 AM.
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Old 10-05-07, 07:46 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Very Nice write up Gabe,
this is similar to the CAI I am in the planning stages of...except mine involves a short ram straight to a 90 degree coupler by the batt connecting to a 90 degree pipe to the fender well...again thanx for this experiment very informational...
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Old 10-05-07, 08:53 PM   #3 (permalink)
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yea that was awesome to see the actual temps...thanks for the write-up

very curious to see what I'm reading out here in sunny AZ...I bet my under hood is like 150 when it's 100 outside! where's a Rangerjoe CAI when you need one! guess I dont have to worry about hydrolock too much!
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Old 10-06-07, 02:17 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Nice writeup. IMHO it should be a sticky.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sam o nela View Post
........In short, I will be adding cold air to the stock air box in an attempt to stop biting my nails thinking about hydrolock come the first heavy rain storm.
That's what I have on mine. I bought an OEM K&N filter and decided I still wanted some of the benefits of CAI.

BTW I know this is way off topic but do you have a write up or parts list for an auto trans to man trans swap?
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Old 10-06-07, 03:13 AM   #5 (permalink)
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lol and I just put my stock resonator and last section of the stock intake back on like 5 mins ago. oh well, ive been through 4 intake setups before.
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Old 10-06-07, 03:59 AM   #6 (permalink)
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lookin cool

Hey nice, I vote keep the PVC, those elbows are pleasing, kinda doubt it will deform due to heat. When bending PVC electrical conduit one has to heat the crap out of it.

Do you worry about rain with cai? It pisses here in the winter.

Does it prolong engine warm up in cold weather? My car does 80miles/week of short trips in the burbs, I'd rather it warm up sooner rather than later.

What filter to use? I thought K&Ns are the way to go, better filtration and flow than paper.

I was once told the best is a conical filter crammed into the stock box, I fail to see how that would be better than a drop in K&N.

Any thought on the above?

cheers, Jay
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Old 10-06-07, 05:33 AM   #7 (permalink)
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yes my front bumper is in need of paint --- but besides that ... k&n drop in in the stock airbox with cold air coming straight into it via the front of vehicle (rammed air so to speak), & a friend of mine with an injen air intake would always beat me by about 1/4 to 1/2 a car b4 i did this ... i shit you not it is now the other way around. he paid $180.00 to get under the hood air, i paid $40.00 for the k&n & less than 10 for the aluminum 3" dryer hookup pipe & used a plastic piece from my yard blower that i will never use anyway. cheap or whatever you may call it, the power increase IS noticable & proven & it DOES give off a nice growl under the hood
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Old 10-06-07, 06:09 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay P View Post

What filter to use? I thought K&Ns are the way to go, better filtration and flow than paper.
Its actually less filtration and better flow. Can't have the good without the bad ya kno?
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Old 10-06-07, 10:49 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Nice writeup. Couple of questions: first, exactly where does your CAI end? Second, what are you using for filtration? Thanks...
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Old 10-06-07, 11:55 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xcaliber003 View Post
BTW I know this is way off topic but do you have a write up or parts list for an auto trans to man trans swap?
Hmmm...I believe there is an informal tranny swap post by Legend_Master in the FAQ....if not I will add it right now....but I'm pretty sure its there...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay P View Post
Do you worry about rain with cai? It pisses here in the winter.

Does it prolong engine warm up in cold weather?

What filter to use? I thought K&Ns are the way to go, better filtration and flow than paper.

I was once told the best is a conical filter crammed into the stock box, I fail to see how that would be better than a drop in K&N.

Any thought on the above?

cheers, Jay
~I do worry about rain because there are some places in my area that are notorious for flooding come the first heavy rain. I know for a fact that my CAI will only be protected for so long by the splash shield and I've seen way too many horror stories on car forums...I know I could get a bypass valve, but I'd rather be safe than sorry...my next experiment will test the air temp difference between the CAI and cold air routed into the stock air box.

~I think that ambient temperature would affect your warm up time more than the CAI. I've had this intake on for over a week now and yesterday was the first day I noticed a longer time to warm up...but it was 60 degrees out when for the past few months it's been in the mid 70s every single day...

~Yeah I am using a regular paper air filter for a 91 Prelude...I trust the paper much more and I knew this setup would only be temporary. And regarding the Conical shoved into the stock airbox. Nikhai has this setup on his coupe and it does work, the only problem is though that I believe the stock filter or the drop in has more filtration area...either way I've just never been a fan of oiled-gauze filters...like Ken said, its a trade off...more flow with less filtration

Quote:
Originally Posted by music2bmurderedby View Post
k&n drop in in the stock airbox with cold air coming straight into it via the front of vehicle (rammed air so to speak), & a friend of mine with an injen air intake would always beat me by about 1/4 to 1/2 a car b4 i did this ... i shit you not it is now the other way around. he paid $180.00 to get under the hood air, i paid $40.00 for the k&n & less than 10 for the aluminum 3" dryer hookup pipe & used a plastic piece from my yard blower that i will never use anyway. cheap or whatever you may call it, the power increase IS noticable & proven & it DOES give off a nice growl under the hood
Yes this is the California CAI that Erik (body9599) did way back when...this is kind of what I am planning to do, but minus the hose in the fender well...if one ever has to go through a deep enough puddle, that hose might become a straw

Quote:
Originally Posted by awelliott View Post
Nice writeup. Couple of questions: first, exactly where does your CAI end? Second, what are you using for filtration? Thanks...
My setup ends as most peoples'...in the fender well with the resonator removed (been removed for quite a while actually hahaha) and protected from the elements by the splash shield. Also I am using this paper filter....

Stock Filter for a 91 Honda Prelude


Its a great paper filter...like I said I'm not much into oiled-gauze and I've had this filter on the intake for my wife's Infiniti for a long time now and its still going strong...plus I have no gripes about paying $6.99 every other oil change to change it out rather than having to clean and re-oil....

Thanks for all the great comments guys!
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Old 10-06-07, 12:44 PM   #11 (permalink)
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great write up gabe i mean teacher lol my filter is foam, is that a good thing to use. plus its pretty easy to clean it up.
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Old 10-06-07, 12:59 PM   #13 (permalink)
FRISCO LEGEND BABY!!!!
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sam o nela View Post
Hate to tell you this man, but I have read in the past that foam is probably the worst in terms of filtration....
damn well thats a kick on the nuts
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Old 10-06-07, 01:24 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Question

What is the diameter of those PVC elbows, what size are those couplers, and where did you get them?
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