Failed 'functional' Ca. emission test (EGR) ??? - Page 4

Merlin the Wrench · 04-20-03, 02:17 PM

top engine cleaner: I buy mine at a chevy dealer. GM Vehicle Care Product. Blue can, older ones were silver grey. Top Engine Cleaner part 1#1050002 Gr.8.800 15 fl OZ.

BG44K: Call local dealers' service shops to see who carries it. BG doesn't sell it wholesale, through retail parts stores or on the Internet that I can find. Usually I get it at a local dealer. Used to work next to a BG distributer here in the Sacramento area and even though I was almost next door they still wouldn't sell it to me directly. Have to get it from a dealer.

Merlin the Wrench · 04-20-03, 04:02 PM

I took the time to review the Legend's emission equipment in a manual I have to see if I could make an educated suggestion. There are too many things that can be the cause, including something that wasn't put back right when the heads were taken off.

The issue is one of these three things -

(1) The shop who ran it screwed up or are trying to hammer you for repairs you don't need. (unlikely but it happens)

(2) a faulty Catalytic Convertor which fails to clean up the NOX -which could be perfectly normal levels otherwise.

(3) anything that raises the combustion temperature - including manifold air leaks, parts not put back right, any of about 6 or 7 defective or out of adjustment sensors, defective or wrong temp thermostat, incorrectly placed or removed vacuum hoses, timing being advanced, bad ECU etc. For example - you indicated you had an after market air filter. Did you keep all the hoses intact that went into the stock intake tube or were they removed? While they might not seem significant, they provide data to other systems which all feed data to the ECU whose job is to control A/F mixtures. You indicated you removed the pre-cat and the cat for awhile - could that have caused a failure in the suction valve that provides the air in the ehhaust ahead of the cat that it needs to work? O2 sensors can also harmed by any additives that damage a CAT, although they can be tested. Usually when they go bad they go rich rather than lean - although a general failure can force the ECU to revert to preset settings rather than run in closed loop.

If it were me I would

(1) check ECU LED to see if it has any stored codes. That may be a clue. It is under a plate at the passengers feet on most Legends I believe. There is a little window with a LED in it. Turn the car on and see if it is flashing a code. Just because the dash light isn't on doesn't necessarially mean anything. I've seen more than one after market mechanic remove dash error bulbs when they begin to flash after a screwed up repair. The ECU should still have any current codes. If there are codes, read them and write them down.

(2) run bottle of full strength techron (if you can't find BG44K) through the gas to be sure the injectors aren't clogged. Coked up injectors cause all kinds of A/F problems.

(3) verify that the VSS (vehicle speed sensor) isn't malfunctioning - ie, is the speedo bouncing at times? The VSS ties in with shift points and emmissions, and it is a known high failure item on Legends. The ECU might be confused if it gets conflicting data - an engine saying I am doing 70 mph and the VSS saying I am not moving. I don't know the ECU logic well enough to know if that causes preset Air/Fuel to kick in. Even if this isn't it, VSS go bad so often in Legends that when the Speedo starts bouncing the VSS soon fails and the Speedo goes to -0-.

(4) Look over all the hoses and compare them to the sticker on the car to be sure both they and the sensors were put back correctly. There are many sensors that send data to the ECU that it uses to determine A/F ratios. It even has a sensor to tell it how far open the EGR is physically and puts that into the equation. I am sure that the EGR is not the source of the whole problem because Sean's was completely plugged and his still passed the NOX ppm. Your's tests Ok (moves and stumbles) yet the ppm is way too high.

Then, retest at another shop and if it fails take to an Acura Dealer with a good mechanic. Check with others on this site to see whom they have been happy with. You will need an Acura shop because they will have the test equipment, parts and experience to test it. If you are a "do it yourselfer" - check the big thick Chilton manual, Haines or at the library to look over the annual technical manuals they have in the green binders. Should the ECU have stored trouble codes, any of these books will have a list to tell you what they are.

good luck - Merlin the Wrench

theGodfather · 04-21-03, 03:54 AM

Wow! Information overload

!!

It's all good though! Thanks Merlin.

First of all thanks for the part # and putting me on the right track for those chemicals. I'm going to make some phone calls the next couple of days and source them.

With respect to your long list of possiblities.. I will consider each entity mentioned and use your post as a guide. I will now respond to each of your #s listed with my current situation and plan accordingly. Again. .thanks for the time you have taken to research this.

1) I ran my emissions test at 3 different locations.. all failing my NOx levels and all shops having same level. However one shop managed to drop the level by 300ppm (from 1200 to 900) just by doing an oil change (I was running dry). Didn't know oil makes a big difference in combustion temperature! Good thing to keep in mind!

2) The shop I mostly deal with has a way of testing hte cat by taking measurements of the exhaust BEFORE and AFTER the cat to see the differences it makes in emissions. This is one of hte many tests they will do for me to determine the problem. I prefer to save myself the $60 for their time to figure htis out.. but then always re-testing my car costs $10 a re-test so I might as well go this route.

3) Would a small exhaust leak at the flange of the passenger side exhaust manifold (which I beleive is the side where hte EGR gets fed its exhaust) cause an increase in combustion temp? I do believe I have discovered this leak yesterday while listning (and smelling) around my engine.

My aftermarket air filter is not that different from the stock setup. I just removed the "air box" and added some custom PVC piping extension to add a K&N cone filter, leaving all hoses untouched.

Any internal defects and parts not being put right, my mechanic will be responsible for. Therefore I am edging towards paying him his 1 hour fee for coming up with the cause to the problem tehrefore if its internal, he'll have to take full responsiblity for the repair costs and re-test of the car.

My "check-engine" dash light I know in fact works (turn the key to the ON position should light up all hte lights on the dash.. which it does), therefore it being disconnected is not an issue. I will check the ECU itself for an error code on the LED in its window.

Quote:

You indicated you removed the pre-cat and the cat for awhile - could that have caused a failure in the suction valve that provides the air in the ehhaust ahead of the cat that it needs to work?

??? Can you please elaborate on this valve as I have never heard of a valve (from what I interperted) adds oxygen to the exhaust right before the cat?? What is its purpose? What is the technical name for it so I can look it up in my Service manual.

From studying the emissions section of my service manual.. if there were to be any malfucntion to any of the components, the ECU should detect it and report it. Only thing I can think of is any sensors that are not working properly.. but are still within tolerance. I'm going to put my multimeter on the O2 sensors and see the readings I get.

Other than that.. my VSS works fine.

Oh.. would a bad temperature gauge have any affect? Does the ECU read the temperature of the engine off the gauge or it gets it from the temperature sensor itself? I broke my gauge not too long ago and the needle is always in the H position. I am replacing it soon.

I think I will pay the mechanic to troubleshoot the problem and if it's simple, I will do myself. However if its something internal... I will have to see if it was something he caused from the work that was done to fix the HG.

If you can get back to me on the exhaust leak issue.... that valve you were talking about and my temp. gauge.. i would appreciate it.

G

Merlin the Wrench · 04-21-03, 04:40 AM

the gauge question would require you pulling a full electronics schematic for your make and year from Acura and then tracing the wiring to answer that question. Is there a possibility that the engine is running hot and you don't know it because the guage is out? Higher temp means more NOX. Also when temps get too high many engines are programed to do other things to help cool the engine like play with spark timing.

The valve you asked about is in the Chilton manual and covers up to the 1993 model as the book I have is about 10 years old. I had a 92 & now I have a 95 - it looks identical in every way. It is called the Air Suction Valve. Its purpose is to allow pulses of air to go into the exhaust so the cat has oxygen to work with for the catalytic process. Older cars before about 1990 used a smog pump. The Legend uses the air pulse system according to this manual. It is the big valve at the back center of the intake manifold. The solenoid that makes it work is near the power steering fluid container in the pictuire and there are 3 solenoids together. It is the one to the passenger side. They look round in the photo. The book lists as parts of emission system that work together:

ECU
EGR Valve
Right Knock Sensor
Air Suction Valve
M/T neutral switch
Left Knock sensor
Left Heated O2 sensor
Purge Control Solenoid
Injector Resistor
Crank /CYL Sensor
Intake Air Temp Snesor
EACV
Throttle Angle Sensor
Coolant Temperater Sensor
P/S Oil Pressure switch
Bypass High Control Solenoid Valve
Bypass Low Control Solenoid Valve
Air Suction Control Valve Solenoid
Igniter unit
Right Heated O2 Sensor
Crank Timing Sensor
Ignition TIming Module
Chamber Volume Control System
Fuel Injection System
Check Valves etc
VSS

Personally I might consider paying the $60 to see if the problem is pre-cat or not. If the problem is pre-cat take it to the guy who did the work and let him see if he can find the issue. All it would take is for him to have hooked up one of these things wrong when he pulled the head off. If the engine is running hot, that is his problem too I would think as he is the one who pulled the heads off.

I can't answer the question on the exhaust leak but it sure doesn't sound right to me. Exhaust leaks can be fatal if the fumes get sucked into the passenger comparment - CO is odorless and extrmely dangerous. You'll notice that most cars and race cars - (but not all) - have exhausts out the right rear so the fumes leave as far away from the driver as possible.

The emission schematic shows the air tube going into the exhaust in that area so maybe that is defective or not hooked back up properly?

goo d luck

Merlin the Wrench

Ackvigend · 04-21-03, 04:41 AM

godfather
here's a link where you can buy a Bg-44k Fuel System Cleaner
http://www.extrememotorsports.com/g2cat/misc.htm or https://hercules.smart.net/extreme-c....cgi?add=20771 if this link doesn't work pm me.

theGodfather · 04-21-03, 04:05 PM

Merlin.. thanks again!

I'm going to see my mechanic today and talk to him about it.

I had a good look at my manual today and know what you talking about now. Of course the manual shows any malfunction to any of those systems will result in an ECU code (check engine light).

I researched the temperature gauge and it has no effect on engine management. The gauge actually uses coolant temperature sender which is seperate from the coolant temperature sensor that the fuel and emissions system use. I still need to replace that gauge to make sure I'm not running hot.

Also reading the troubleshooting area.. it mentioend the EVAP influences whether teh car passes emissions or not. It does not specifiy which particular emission.. but I will check to see if this system is working. Will EVAP effect NOx levels?

G

theGodfather · 04-21-03, 04:05 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dnastyboy1
godfather
here's a link where you can buy a Bg-44k Fuel System Cleaner
http://www.extrememotorsports.com/g2cat/misc.htm or https://hercules.smart.net/extreme-c....cgi?add=20771 if this link doesn't work pm me.

Thanks! If I cannot find it localy here... I will order it online.

G

theGodfather · 04-21-03, 07:05 PM

I put my multimeter on my O2 sensors today.

I put them on the sensors on a cold engine and here are the readings:

Passenger side - 14 Ohms
Drivers side - 14.5 Ohms

The manual says they should be between 10 - 20 Ohms.

Does this rule out the O2 sensors?

G

theGodfather · 04-23-03, 03:55 AM

Ok.. did some further testing to hte O2 sensor using voltage readings. Voltage fluctuated under and over 0.45V which is perfect! Ranged form 0.1 to 0.9! Both sensors tested and everything is working for them. SO they out fo the picture now.

Also checked ECU light through the window... no flashing or any lights at all. So it is safe to assume sensors are functioning.

I will run the BG44k cleaner through wheN I get it and run another test to see what my PPM will be after.

Will clean out EGR wheN i get chance.

If i still don't pass after all this... then probably my cat messed.. which I will have it tested as well (take measurements before and after the cat to see the diffrences it makes).

If it ends up being the cat.. i'll just keep it and use it with methanol to pass the test every 2 years. I miss my striaght pipe and stage II chip

G

Nathan_Rd · 04-23-03, 09:22 AM

Was the emissions test done on a treadmill?

theGodfather · 04-23-03, 09:23 PM

Emissions test here in Ontario can only be done on a dyno.. you cannot test NOx levels without a dyno.

I ran a re-test today using Methanol... no effect. Perhaps I did not use enough mixture. I mixed in 1 L of methanol to 15 L of gasoline that was in the tank. I did not want to go higher concentrate in risk of damaging any fuel components.

Also with the 1 L there was no effect... I do not think this was effective for my case. I might have somehting serious on hand.. because if it was the Catelletic converter... the Nox should have dropped from the Methanol. But it seems like the engine is producing the higher NOx even with the "richer" fuel.

My car is going to the mechanics tomorrow... i'm turning over the investigation to them as it might even be their fault for some improper re-assembly of a components from my HG job.

I still did not try the fuel injector cleaner... but the Methanol should have had an effect.

G

jonesy · 04-24-03, 08:09 AM

Why in the world did you not try the injector cleaner? It seems like everyone is in agreement that this is a quick easy cheap thing to do. I personally have told you that I have used it several times on different cars to make them pass emissions. Seems like I would try that before forking money over to a mechanic. The methanol certainly would not have had the same effect the cleaner would have.

Good luck though, let us know what the mechanic says.

Nathan_Rd · 04-24-03, 09:46 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by theGodfather
Emissions test here in Ontario can only be done on a dyno...
G

If that's the case, did you try hooking up a vac gauge to the EGR valve line and DRIVE the car between 1500-2500rpm? If not either you T it off that line or disconnect it from the EGR(and hopefully get a Check Eng light) to see if the ECU is actually grounding that solenoid applying vacuum to the EGR.

theGodfather · 04-24-03, 09:18 PM

Jonesy,

If you read my posts carefully, you should understand I'm having a hard time getting a hold of BG44K here in Toronto.

I did take my car to the mechanic today. It appears all sensors are working fine and fuel system looked good. He took exhaust measurements before the cat and after the cat. The cat seemed to be reducing NOx by 24%. He said the cat should be reducing them by at least 46%. However even at 46% my car will still not pass NOx (i'm blowing 1100ppm and limit is 450ppm).

He did notice something that was odd with his readings. Before the cat he was reading a 3% oxygen level. The oxygen level should NOT exceed 1%. This means extra oxygen is getting into the system somewhere or the combustion isn't burning all of it off (leaning out). The cat cannot work properly with that amount of oxygen either. He thinks one of the fuel injectors is not spraying properly (majorly clogged) so he ran this concentrated injector stuff right into hte fuel rails for about 30 mins (shut off the fuel pump and bypassing it after the filter). After that he ran some de-carbonizer through the throttle-body, even though he had the internal engine cleaned out when he did my HG 3 months ago.

He put the car back on the dyno to test it again, however all this black and blue smoke was coming out of hte exhaust. He told me there's alot of crap that has to come out now and I have to drive it tonight on the highway a bit and tomorrow he'll have to test it again. Hopefuly this solves the problem.. if not.. he has to do more detective work.

G

theGodfather · 04-24-03, 09:22 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Nathan_Rd

If that's the case, did you try hooking up a vac gauge to the EGR valve line and DRIVE the car between 1500-2500rpm? If not either you T it off that line or disconnect it from the EGR(and hopefully get a Check Eng light) to see if the ECU is actually grounding that solenoid applying vacuum to the EGR.

I did check the EGR system and:

A) I was able to stumble/stall the vehicle by applying vacuum on idle to the EGR valve.

B) I ran a gauge to the vacuum line that activates the valve and when reving the engine I did notice 9 in. of vacuum (within specs) and specific points during the RPM range. I did notice it applied vacuum during the 1500-2500 RPM range.

This shows that my EGR system is working fine. Besides, even two members here had completely inoperative EGR systems and passed emissions. What's california's limit to NOx levels in PPM?

G

04-20-03, 02:17 PM	#46 (permalink)
Merlin the Wrench Registered User Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: sacramento Posts: 863 Car 1: 1995 L sedan; past 1992 L sedan iTrader: (0)	top engine cleaner: I buy mine at a chevy dealer. GM Vehicle Care Product. Blue can, older ones were silver grey. Top Engine Cleaner part 1#1050002 Gr.8.800 15 fl OZ. BG44K: Call local dealers' service shops to see who carries it. BG doesn't sell it wholesale, through retail parts stores or on the Internet that I can find. Usually I get it at a local dealer. Used to work next to a BG distributer here in the Sacramento area and even though I was almost next door they still wouldn't sell it to me directly. Have to get it from a dealer. __________________ Best Wishes Steve

04-20-03, 04:02 PM	#47 (permalink)
Merlin the Wrench Registered User Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: sacramento Posts: 863 Car 1: 1995 L sedan; past 1992 L sedan iTrader: (0)	I took the time to review the Legend's emission equipment in a manual I have to see if I could make an educated suggestion. There are too many things that can be the cause, including something that wasn't put back right when the heads were taken off. The issue is one of these three things - (1) The shop who ran it screwed up or are trying to hammer you for repairs you don't need. (unlikely but it happens) (2) a faulty Catalytic Convertor which fails to clean up the NOX -which could be perfectly normal levels otherwise. (3) anything that raises the combustion temperature - including manifold air leaks, parts not put back right, any of about 6 or 7 defective or out of adjustment sensors, defective or wrong temp thermostat, incorrectly placed or removed vacuum hoses, timing being advanced, bad ECU etc. For example - you indicated you had an after market air filter. Did you keep all the hoses intact that went into the stock intake tube or were they removed? While they might not seem significant, they provide data to other systems which all feed data to the ECU whose job is to control A/F mixtures. You indicated you removed the pre-cat and the cat for awhile - could that have caused a failure in the suction valve that provides the air in the ehhaust ahead of the cat that it needs to work? O2 sensors can also harmed by any additives that damage a CAT, although they can be tested. Usually when they go bad they go rich rather than lean - although a general failure can force the ECU to revert to preset settings rather than run in closed loop. If it were me I would (1) check ECU LED to see if it has any stored codes. That may be a clue. It is under a plate at the passengers feet on most Legends I believe. There is a little window with a LED in it. Turn the car on and see if it is flashing a code. Just because the dash light isn't on doesn't necessarially mean anything. I've seen more than one after market mechanic remove dash error bulbs when they begin to flash after a screwed up repair. The ECU should still have any current codes. If there are codes, read them and write them down. (2) run bottle of full strength techron (if you can't find BG44K) through the gas to be sure the injectors aren't clogged. Coked up injectors cause all kinds of A/F problems. (3) verify that the VSS (vehicle speed sensor) isn't malfunctioning - ie, is the speedo bouncing at times? The VSS ties in with shift points and emmissions, and it is a known high failure item on Legends. The ECU might be confused if it gets conflicting data - an engine saying I am doing 70 mph and the VSS saying I am not moving. I don't know the ECU logic well enough to know if that causes preset Air/Fuel to kick in. Even if this isn't it, VSS go bad so often in Legends that when the Speedo starts bouncing the VSS soon fails and the Speedo goes to -0-. (4) Look over all the hoses and compare them to the sticker on the car to be sure both they and the sensors were put back correctly. There are many sensors that send data to the ECU that it uses to determine A/F ratios. It even has a sensor to tell it how far open the EGR is physically and puts that into the equation. I am sure that the EGR is not the source of the whole problem because Sean's was completely plugged and his still passed the NOX ppm. Your's tests Ok (moves and stumbles) yet the ppm is way too high. Then, retest at another shop and if it fails take to an Acura Dealer with a good mechanic. Check with others on this site to see whom they have been happy with. You will need an Acura shop because they will have the test equipment, parts and experience to test it. If you are a "do it yourselfer" - check the big thick Chilton manual, Haines or at the library to look over the annual technical manuals they have in the green binders. Should the ECU have stored trouble codes, any of these books will have a list to tell you what they are. good luck - Merlin the Wrench __________________ Best Wishes Steve

04-21-03, 04:40 AM	#49 (permalink)
Merlin the Wrench Registered User Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: sacramento Posts: 863 Car 1: 1995 L sedan; past 1992 L sedan iTrader: (0)	the gauge question would require you pulling a full electronics schematic for your make and year from Acura and then tracing the wiring to answer that question. Is there a possibility that the engine is running hot and you don't know it because the guage is out? Higher temp means more NOX. Also when temps get too high many engines are programed to do other things to help cool the engine like play with spark timing. The valve you asked about is in the Chilton manual and covers up to the 1993 model as the book I have is about 10 years old. I had a 92 & now I have a 95 - it looks identical in every way. It is called the Air Suction Valve. Its purpose is to allow pulses of air to go into the exhaust so the cat has oxygen to work with for the catalytic process. Older cars before about 1990 used a smog pump. The Legend uses the air pulse system according to this manual. It is the big valve at the back center of the intake manifold. The solenoid that makes it work is near the power steering fluid container in the pictuire and there are 3 solenoids together. It is the one to the passenger side. They look round in the photo. The book lists as parts of emission system that work together: ECU EGR Valve Right Knock Sensor Air Suction Valve M/T neutral switch Left Knock sensor Left Heated O2 sensor Purge Control Solenoid Injector Resistor Crank /CYL Sensor Intake Air Temp Snesor EACV Throttle Angle Sensor Coolant Temperater Sensor P/S Oil Pressure switch Bypass High Control Solenoid Valve Bypass Low Control Solenoid Valve Air Suction Control Valve Solenoid Igniter unit Right Heated O2 Sensor Crank Timing Sensor Ignition TIming Module Chamber Volume Control System Fuel Injection System Check Valves etc VSS Personally I might consider paying the $60 to see if the problem is pre-cat or not. If the problem is pre-cat take it to the guy who did the work and let him see if he can find the issue. All it would take is for him to have hooked up one of these things wrong when he pulled the head off. If the engine is running hot, that is his problem too I would think as he is the one who pulled the heads off. I can't answer the question on the exhaust leak but it sure doesn't sound right to me. Exhaust leaks can be fatal if the fumes get sucked into the passenger comparment - CO is odorless and extrmely dangerous. You'll notice that most cars and race cars - (but not all) - have exhausts out the right rear so the fumes leave as far away from the driver as possible. The emission schematic shows the air tube going into the exhaust in that area so maybe that is defective or not hooked back up properly? goo d luck Merlin the Wrench __________________ Best Wishes Steve

04-21-03, 04:41 AM	#50 (permalink)
Ackvigend Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Ca Posts: 389 Car 1: 1994 Acura Legend GS (Auto) Car 2: 1993 Acura Vigor GS Car 3: 2005 Toyo Sienna XLE iTrader: (0)	godfather here's a link where you can buy a Bg-44k Fuel System Cleaner http://www.extrememotorsports.com/g2cat/misc.htm or https://hercules.smart.net/extreme-c....cgi?add=20771 if this link doesn't work pm me. __________________ '93 Acura Vigor GS (MT) '94 Acura Legend GS (AT) Mods so far: 7/8" Rear Sway Bar from ADDCO Carbing Front Strut Bar Clear Corner Lights Remote Start and Remote Trunk Release Slotted X Drilled Rotors (Front & Rear) Clear Front Bumper Lights Koni Reds with Stock Springs(Full Soft Setting) 17X7 TSX Rims wrapped with Nexen Tires 225/45/17

04-21-03, 04:05 PM	#51 (permalink)
theGodfather "the Don" Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Toronto, ON, CANADA Posts: 1,002 Car 1: 1995 Carbon Black Metallic 6-Speed Coupe iTrader: (2)	Merlin.. thanks again! I'm going to see my mechanic today and talk to him about it. I had a good look at my manual today and know what you talking about now. Of course the manual shows any malfunction to any of those systems will result in an ECU code (check engine light). I researched the temperature gauge and it has no effect on engine management. The gauge actually uses coolant temperature sender which is seperate from the coolant temperature sensor that the fuel and emissions system use. I still need to replace that gauge to make sure I'm not running hot. Also reading the troubleshooting area.. it mentioend the EVAP influences whether teh car passes emissions or not. It does not specifiy which particular emission.. but I will check to see if this system is working. Will EVAP effect NOx levels? G __________________ 1995 Legend Coupe 6-speed Carbon Black Metallic 208 WHP @ 6250 RPM 189 FT/LB @ 5250 RPM MUSTANG Dyno 260,000mi and counting WeaponR Secret Weapon Intake - Cold Air Box - Custom 2.5" stainless exhaust system - Remus Rev3 Universal muffler -SPEC Stage II clutch - 5speed flywheel - SR5GUY Chip - APEXi S-AFC - Pullies - MLS copy strut bar - Short Shifter -18" ICON W65 Wheels - KONI reds/Ground Controls - Slotted Brembo Rotors - SS Brake lines - Walbro 255 -ICE

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04-21-03, 07:05 PM	#53 (permalink)
theGodfather "the Don" Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Toronto, ON, CANADA Posts: 1,002 Car 1: 1995 Carbon Black Metallic 6-Speed Coupe iTrader: (2)	I put my multimeter on my O2 sensors today. I put them on the sensors on a cold engine and here are the readings: Passenger side - 14 Ohms Drivers side - 14.5 Ohms The manual says they should be between 10 - 20 Ohms. Does this rule out the O2 sensors? G __________________ 1995 Legend Coupe 6-speed Carbon Black Metallic 208 WHP @ 6250 RPM 189 FT/LB @ 5250 RPM MUSTANG Dyno 260,000mi and counting WeaponR Secret Weapon Intake - Cold Air Box - Custom 2.5" stainless exhaust system - Remus Rev3 Universal muffler -SPEC Stage II clutch - 5speed flywheel - SR5GUY Chip - APEXi S-AFC - Pullies - MLS copy strut bar - Short Shifter -18" ICON W65 Wheels - KONI reds/Ground Controls - Slotted Brembo Rotors - SS Brake lines - Walbro 255 -ICE

04-23-03, 03:55 AM	#54 (permalink)
theGodfather "the Don" Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Toronto, ON, CANADA Posts: 1,002 Car 1: 1995 Carbon Black Metallic 6-Speed Coupe iTrader: (2)	Ok.. did some further testing to hte O2 sensor using voltage readings. Voltage fluctuated under and over 0.45V which is perfect! Ranged form 0.1 to 0.9! Both sensors tested and everything is working for them. SO they out fo the picture now. Also checked ECU light through the window... no flashing or any lights at all. So it is safe to assume sensors are functioning. I will run the BG44k cleaner through wheN I get it and run another test to see what my PPM will be after. Will clean out EGR wheN i get chance. If i still don't pass after all this... then probably my cat messed.. which I will have it tested as well (take measurements before and after the cat to see the diffrences it makes). If it ends up being the cat.. i'll just keep it and use it with methanol to pass the test every 2 years. I miss my striaght pipe and stage II chip G __________________ 1995 Legend Coupe 6-speed Carbon Black Metallic 208 WHP @ 6250 RPM 189 FT/LB @ 5250 RPM MUSTANG Dyno 260,000mi and counting WeaponR Secret Weapon Intake - Cold Air Box - Custom 2.5" stainless exhaust system - Remus Rev3 Universal muffler -SPEC Stage II clutch - 5speed flywheel - SR5GUY Chip - APEXi S-AFC - Pullies - MLS copy strut bar - Short Shifter -18" ICON W65 Wheels - KONI reds/Ground Controls - Slotted Brembo Rotors - SS Brake lines - Walbro 255 -ICE

04-23-03, 09:22 AM	#55 (permalink)
Nathan_Rd hasng w*nd Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: 94620 Posts: 133 Car 1: zenki=funner iTrader: (0)	Was the emissions test done on a treadmill?

04-23-03, 09:23 PM	#56 (permalink)
theGodfather "the Don" Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Toronto, ON, CANADA Posts: 1,002 Car 1: 1995 Carbon Black Metallic 6-Speed Coupe iTrader: (2)	Emissions test here in Ontario can only be done on a dyno.. you cannot test NOx levels without a dyno. I ran a re-test today using Methanol... no effect. Perhaps I did not use enough mixture. I mixed in 1 L of methanol to 15 L of gasoline that was in the tank. I did not want to go higher concentrate in risk of damaging any fuel components. Also with the 1 L there was no effect... I do not think this was effective for my case. I might have somehting serious on hand.. because if it was the Catelletic converter... the Nox should have dropped from the Methanol. But it seems like the engine is producing the higher NOx even with the "richer" fuel. My car is going to the mechanics tomorrow... i'm turning over the investigation to them as it might even be their fault for some improper re-assembly of a components from my HG job. I still did not try the fuel injector cleaner... but the Methanol should have had an effect. G __________________ 1995 Legend Coupe 6-speed Carbon Black Metallic 208 WHP @ 6250 RPM 189 FT/LB @ 5250 RPM MUSTANG Dyno 260,000mi and counting WeaponR Secret Weapon Intake - Cold Air Box - Custom 2.5" stainless exhaust system - Remus Rev3 Universal muffler -SPEC Stage II clutch - 5speed flywheel - SR5GUY Chip - APEXi S-AFC - Pullies - MLS copy strut bar - Short Shifter -18" ICON W65 Wheels - KONI reds/Ground Controls - Slotted Brembo Rotors - SS Brake lines - Walbro 255 -ICE

04-24-03, 08:09 AM	#57 (permalink)
jonesy Registered User Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Houston Posts: 82 Car 1: 91 Acura Legend iTrader: (0)	Why in the world did you not try the injector cleaner? It seems like everyone is in agreement that this is a quick easy cheap thing to do. I personally have told you that I have used it several times on different cars to make them pass emissions. Seems like I would try that before forking money over to a mechanic. The methanol certainly would not have had the same effect the cleaner would have. Good luck though, let us know what the mechanic says. __________________ Ed Williams '91 Acura Legend

04-24-03, 09:18 PM	#59 (permalink)
theGodfather "the Don" Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Toronto, ON, CANADA Posts: 1,002 Car 1: 1995 Carbon Black Metallic 6-Speed Coupe iTrader: (2)	Jonesy, If you read my posts carefully, you should understand I'm having a hard time getting a hold of BG44K here in Toronto. I did take my car to the mechanic today. It appears all sensors are working fine and fuel system looked good. He took exhaust measurements before the cat and after the cat. The cat seemed to be reducing NOx by 24%. He said the cat should be reducing them by at least 46%. However even at 46% my car will still not pass NOx (i'm blowing 1100ppm and limit is 450ppm). He did notice something that was odd with his readings. Before the cat he was reading a 3% oxygen level. The oxygen level should NOT exceed 1%. This means extra oxygen is getting into the system somewhere or the combustion isn't burning all of it off (leaning out). The cat cannot work properly with that amount of oxygen either. He thinks one of the fuel injectors is not spraying properly (majorly clogged) so he ran this concentrated injector stuff right into hte fuel rails for about 30 mins (shut off the fuel pump and bypassing it after the filter). After that he ran some de-carbonizer through the throttle-body, even though he had the internal engine cleaned out when he did my HG 3 months ago. He put the car back on the dyno to test it again, however all this black and blue smoke was coming out of hte exhaust. He told me there's alot of crap that has to come out now and I have to drive it tonight on the highway a bit and tomorrow he'll have to test it again. Hopefuly this solves the problem.. if not.. he has to do more detective work. G __________________ 1995 Legend Coupe 6-speed Carbon Black Metallic 208 WHP @ 6250 RPM 189 FT/LB @ 5250 RPM MUSTANG Dyno 260,000mi and counting WeaponR Secret Weapon Intake - Cold Air Box - Custom 2.5" stainless exhaust system - Remus Rev3 Universal muffler -SPEC Stage II clutch - 5speed flywheel - SR5GUY Chip - APEXi S-AFC - Pullies - MLS copy strut bar - Short Shifter -18" ICON W65 Wheels - KONI reds/Ground Controls - Slotted Brembo Rotors - SS Brake lines - Walbro 255 -ICE