joeman

I couldn't agree more. These forums are all about sharing of info and DIY mods. Why should we donate $$ just so you can make $$$ off it??? That's just wrong.

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99 Mitsubishi 3000GT VR4... 1 of 263 produced


TT/AWD/6 spd/ 5Zigen FN01RC, roller bearing SS, Passport SR1, HIDs, LEDs, custom berber mats, Alpine IVA-D300, MP3 changer, 2000 watts custom plexi & neon Alpine rack /2x Brahma 10's, Seas Lotus, SQL setup, 20% F1 Tint, Tein Flex, Maximal Adj C arms, Greddy BOV, 3SX poly mounts, Carbotech/Hawk/SS lines, DR-650 turbos, next... 19x10 RH J5 Pro

 

mYbabYLeGend

man i cant believe this **** is breaking us apart. horrible

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O.G.

No longer carrying Darriths baby!

Matt Whelan

Looks good guys. I'm anxious to do this. Thanks for the pics.

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1992 Acura Legend LS Sedan
Car name: AL<---figure it out
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/...4/fd44ef6e.jpg

Modifications
GS Rims
Acura Gold Emblem Kit
OEM CD Changer
EDM Corners
BMW X5 Xenon Projector headlights
Xenarc Xenon driving lights
Custom Red/Clear/Red taillamps & JDM Red/orange/Red Taillights
6 color Indiglos
Black Mesh Upper Grill

LegendGS

Oh Gawd!

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Please read the Forum Rules and other announcements

MikeC

here we go again...

MikeC

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ChrisK

Again, you guys haven't read any of my other posts? My posts are not all just ranting, it does tell you what is really going on. Buy, since you guys need clarification again her is goes.

In the past, when we had a part made for the Legend, there has always been a group buy for XX amount of people before the company commited to making that part. It was the same with the MLS copy, Leons KMS strut brace in the begining, and many of the other smaller parts like the guages and what not. The people (And there have been many, not just Mike and Graeme, and Leon) all were middle men in contacts with these said companies. Because we all had an XX amount of people for the group buy, companies now had a reason to manufactur said parts because they would garantee their developement cost and R&D money would be covered as well as profit with a set price for that part that included all cost to their satisfaction. Do you think Leon was actually making any profit with the KMS stuff? No, it all went to KMS. When MikeC went to Stromung and Weapon-R to get said parts make, do you think he is getting any profit from all the systems sold thus far? No. Maybe some of them got the first part for free or at a discount, but all other parts sold then after were all money going to the company. Nobody asked for money up front to help out in those projects because the company already had a garantee of so many buyers. Do you guys see that point now?

Okay, now, for the sway bars and shift kit that Mike and Graeme was thinking about getting developed, did any of you hear them ask for a XX amount of garanteed buyers? No. Why? Because when you do that, it raises the final cost because all costs are included in the final price. Also, with the turn out of all the group buys lately with peaple flaking out, it is not worth their effort if they give a company their word that XX buyers are in but when it is all said and done they have trouble filling the orders. Just look at the leather group buy that is going on right now. How many of you said you were in buy haven't paid yet? So, how would they approach a company to make parts for a car that is out of prodection if they can't garantee XX amount of buyers? In the companies eyes, it is NOT woth it to them. However, if private money was put up front to aid in the developement cost, then a company might start to feel the gamble to make such a part could be worth while since a good portin of the developement cost is not coming from them but from the interested parties. Now, if and when these parts ever get made, Mike and Graeme may very well get a free part or a discount from the company, but all the parts sold then after is profit for the company. Mike and Graeme will not benefit one cent from any parts sold then after since they DO NOT work for the company. It is not like DV8 who is fabricating his own intake design where he created and developed the part. It is the same like when Leon had the KMS strut brace made. He gets nothing and KMS makes the money on the parts sold. So you guys get it know? Like I mentioned many times before, if you don't like this money up front for developement, then they can always go back to having a group buy with a garanteed XX amount of buyers who pay up front since too many people flake out. That way they do not have to sweaten the incentive for the company to develope the parts with money since the company will have dictated how many people they feel will make it worth their time. The problem is group buy participants have not been reliable and many people don't want to put their money into a fund before the part is even developed. Just like the Hi-Tech header developement project.

It really is simple. Go out and give Comptech or and other manufacture a call and ask them what it would take for them to make sway bars for the Legend. When you get the answer, post back here and let us all know what they said.

And just to add. Everything I bought that Mike or Graeme made for the Legend thus far (For me it was MLS and many EDM parts) I was able to get them at their cost. The problem is just like in the EDM headlights, an set of brand new EDM headlights and corner lights from and EDM dealer is more expensive than buying a USDM set at the dealer, thus many thought it was too expensice and thought they were selling at a profit. They were not. It was a only enough to cover shipping and parts cost. Why nobody complains about Jack Dinh selling the EDM corners at a higher cost than Mike and Ben was selling the same parts for at least a full year before Jack even knew they existed is beyound me. I was the 2nd Legend in the US to have EDM corners which I got from Ben. I created the EDM modification FAQ for Ben in which Jack D called me wanting to link to the FAQ I created. Of course, since I created it for a competing company, he understood and made his own modification FAQ which was basically the same as mine only with different pictures and words.

So all in all. Those who are wondering way upfront money donations through the moonroof mod was asked for just go out and call some manufactures and see what their response is in regurd to making Legend parts. Find out what the initial cost of developement is and what it would take for them to consider making said parts. If you can find a company that will make a parts for the Legend without a garantee XX amount of buyers up front, then we will all follow your lead. Mike and Graeme where just trying to avoid having to lock XX amount of people into buy for parts that are yet only in a theorhetical developement stage. The reason why is because they did so with the rear lower tie bar and the group buy poll got great response, but when the final cost of the part came out many people *****ed and whined about the cost of the part, thus dramatically lowering the number of people that said they would buy, thus making for difficult relationships between the manufacturer, themselves, and the Legend community.

If you guys don't want any further Legend parts developed, just post back here and we can end all of this. The fact of the matter is, unless you guys state you don't care to have any parts made anymore, this type of controversy will continue. Just like how some people thought Leon was making money of the KMS stuff. I guess I should be pissed that S/R motorsports is not giving me and all the others involved a cut for all the indiglo gagues they have sold. Man, I only got a free set of gauges. I would have gladly taking a percentage of profit from parts sold if it actually worked that way.

ChrisK

Have you read everything about this topic or are you just responding to small portion you read about the $20?

If you have read, they are NOT making any profit from any of this. The money was supposed to go toward developement cost of other Legend parts. Or, do you not care about that and think they should pay out of pocket to get manufacturers to make parts for the disontinued Legend? Remember, they have not asked for everyone to help out, just those who want to help out and help in future parts developements. It is the same as Matt asking for donations to help keep this forum running. It is funny how you guys are okay with that but don't want to help out or have others help out two long time members who are still one of the few people trying to get parts developed for the Legend.

What is wrong is you people who have no repect for the so called founding fathers of the Legend community. It is almost like you guys saying that if it were you, you would have wrote the Constitition of the United States differently. The founding fathers of the United States wrote it a certain way, and even though we may not all agree with everything written the way it was, we respect them and believe their actions were for the benefit of the entire United States. Same thing with the so called founding fathers of the Legend Community. Everything they have ever done was for the benefit of the Legend community to teh best of their intentions. You may not understand the path they are trying to take, but they do so believing the final outcome will greatly help the Legend owners and not themselves since they are not making any profit as all the profit goes to the companies that make the parts.

ChrisK

How do you make a dman poll?

I want to make a poll with this message and see what the results are.

1) I will gladly donate money to any future Legend parts developement project knowing that said projects will be attempted to be made but may not get made due to the aftermarket companies willingness. My money may be spent on a failed project, but I don't mind since any parts that do get made will benefit all Legend owners.

2) I want parts made for the Legend, but I don't really care how or who gets them made. I just want to buy the final product when it comes out.

3) I don't care for any aftermarket pars for the Legend, so anyone who spens or donates any money to Legend aftermarkety parts are just wasting money.

4) I want parts made for the Legend, so I will use my own money for developement cost and get them made to beneift everyone. I do not expect any profit from this nor any help. I'll do it because I'm just a nice guy.

Can someone make this poll for me so we can see once and for all where the Legend Community stands on the subject of parts developement. This way future owners or business that want to attemp to make pars will know if it is worth the hassle or not.

James92LS

Hmm... I was hoping this wasn't going to turn into another arguing thread about who should or shouldn't get $X.

Some people are just not going to understand what the $20 is for.

I will admit that when I first read that MikeC and LegendGS wanted to charge money simply for instructions on how to do a mod I was mad. I figured it was something simple they had stumbled upon. When I read the WHOLE thread (just not one post and then replying with a complaint), I realized how much hard earned cash and precious time was spent for the research into this project. Heck, it took shahavchik and me the better part of an afternoon to figure it out, and I'm sure it took MikeC and LegendGS much, MUCH, longer than that as they were attempting a full modification to the EDM/JDM tilt moonroof. Just this one afternoon of hard work and risking ruining my own moonroof would be worth the $20 to me.

I'm not going to post another huge message about why they deserve the money - as I said at the beginning, some people just aren't going to get it. Hopefully enough people in the Legend COMMUNITY have the respect for MikeC and LegendGS to not reveal how the modification is done if you have figured it out....

Please, PLEASE do not post any more messages arguing. It isn't worth it to break up the Legend community over this... A little ironic that a Legend mod has the potential to break up the Legend community.

-James

Thai.95LCoupe

I'm #1 and #4... I understand where Mike C and LegendGS are comming from no one wants to ante up and pay the $$$ for custom parts... I'm sitting on about 4 ideas that owners have been dreaming about for years but I will fund it myself then to have others shoot me down saying that "that's impossible" or "i'll beleive it when i see it"...

There are SOO many ppl w/ knoweldge and connections to get parts made up and fabricated for us. Yes I know "anything can be done w/ $$$" and yes i know theat 90% of the members now are still in their teens or in school and cant pull $$$ togther like some of the older members. So in that case guys just CHILL. If everyone could keep a level head about up and comming projects or new developments we would have alot more accomplished for the legend community.

Prime example,

DV8 did his 3.5 hybrid. Now if he posted that he was willing to sell the R&D that he went through to cover the $$$ he spent to do the swap how many ppl would ante up and pay?

On a smaller scale Mike and LegendGS are trying to get a kick back form the community so that more parts can be made. This was the only viable option because if they would have posted a thread stating donate for R&D on legend parts there would be $5.00 sitting in a paypal acct on the west coast somewhere.



I'de say if anyone has a problem w/ donating dont complain when no parts are avalible for the Legend.

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-1995.8 S14a
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My KA8's totaled and still greater than....

Imitatated. Never duplicated.™

alexc

Props go out to those that developed the mod. However with people easily figuring it out themselves, it seems hard to justify the the $20 x 50 as compensation for the R&D. I'm not saying that mike and legendgs are lying, their reputations here obviously are excellent, but I can understand where people are doubting too. I would probably never use a tilt feature if I had it, but it's good to see people rigging new things up for our cars. Keep up the great work guys.

bottom line....

all the bickering in this thread is

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Train

I agree as I'm in the same boat. I'm pretty sure that I've figured it out (although I haven't actually gotten the chance to do it yet due to being evacuated from the fires and such), but I'm still more than happy to make my contribution as I've already stated. The way I see it is that I'm not paying $20 to get a set of instructions on a DIY mod, but rather I'm making an investment to inspire certain individuals to pursue the development of custom Legend parts. More specifically, I've had my eye on and have expressed interest in the short shifter for a long time. I really don't care about the sway bar, but I was never one of the 50+ people who had initially expressed interest in it in the first place. Regardless, I'm just happy to see that parts are being developed which is much more than what's being done with all this crap about "karma" and "principles." If you really had any principles, you would encourage others to continue their pursuit for Legend parts (whether it be with money or words of support) instead of letting them carry the brunt of expenses and hard work and simply mooching off the finished product.

What really annoys me is all the complaining about how easy it is and how this was an accidental discovery. Face it. If it was really as easy as people make it out to be, a lot more of us would have already done this mod. The fact is that we all needed a guinea pig (read Graeme and MikeC) to attempt this for us and guide us in the right direction. It was only easy for me because I was put on the right path and knew exactly what to look for. Hell, simply trying to figure this out would have taken a few days if not weeks if someone hadn't already put in the time and laid the groundwork. Very few of us would be willing to start dissecting our moonroofs without any idea of what we were actually doing. Graeme and MikeC were willing to do this and now we're all reaping the benefits of their work. And this whole thing about it being an accident is complete BS and inconsequential to the result. Half the discoveries on this world are the result of accidents or mistakes, or byproducts of another discovery. Hell, the discovery of penicillin was an accident, but do you hear anyone complaining about how that has devalued its significance or questioning the motives of Alexander Fleming? I didn't think so.

All you guys who are complaining are just short-sighted, plain and simple. You see this as a one time thing and that's it without any further implications for future parts. I don't think any of us who are willing to share in the cost see this as a one time deal. Rather, we're paying to ensure that certain people have the resources to continue their development of other parts. The way I see it is that my money is merely a segue towards seeing these projects come to fruition.

Anyway, there's really nothing I can say that hasn't been said already. As I've already stated, Graeme and Mike, you have my money when you need it. Keep up the good progress guys and I'm glad to see that your work is going somewhere. All I ask of you is that I have a short shifter in my car before I start jonesing to sell it.

B+O

i mean really what the hell is goin on?

i dont want the moonroof Vent topic to become a redflag! would you all stop b*tching abotu it already. none of you went out and tried to do it yourselves. after thinking about it from what graeme and MIkeC posted i figured out how it works...but dont come to me for answers because im not giving them either pay Graeme and MikeC or shut the f*ck up, really. they are not making profit. and i dont know about you, but i'd love to see a short shifter and some lower subframe tiebars...im glad they got to gether and built this stuff! you all are trippin entirely too hard....any more b*tchin and this one is closed AS WELL

anymore questions?

i've tried to be nice, i tried to be curtious, i tried, i tried, i tried.

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-Reiko my baby
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God said it, and it was so.

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KNLNGUS

I have read all the posts and can only offer these conclusions.

I am a type of person who does not like to be told to arrive at 12:00 for a function when that function does not start until 12:30. If I value the function enough... I will camp out there the night before.

At first... I gathered that a charge was imminent for the DIY instructions and I clearly read someone's post about there being a charge and a response of "Actually, we want to RECOVER the costs we invested to have the tilt feature work on our USDM Acura Legends..." and then came some kind of hog wash about a year long evaluation in response to someone questioning about leakage etc followed by the DIY instructions being given to a select few.

If you want to charge great. If you want to charge because you want to recover costs of the initial r&d great. If you want to finance future r&d on the back of the initial project .... well thats great too. What is upsetting is that through control and word manipulation, the interests of those who "Discovered" this modification have migrated from "recovering the cost" to "financing future r&d." The posts have just have kept coming in defense of whether or not we care about future R&D (ie short shifters or rear suspension components).

What it sounds like is... there are too many cooks in the kitchen. MikeC I read your post which broke down your idea on what the $20.00 would cover - however - there were people that were either speaking for you or defending the cost that posted before your cost breakdown and they did not mention covering any future R&D.

The very initial posts concerning the moonroof modification came out all wrong. A Full on modification with a potential of fabricated parts turned into a process of "simple" modification to allow for the desired results. Recovery of costs turned into future R&D - and tact and diplomacy flew out the door in defense of $20.00. Now... I can't exactly wipe my sphincter with twenties but I can afford to drop 5-10 of them per month (if needed) on modifications or repair.

There should not have been room for interpretation and discussion in 3rd party form. If there would have been an initial post right from the get go... which did not insult the collective intelligence of members who posted in the negative (only because the posts did read a bit shady at first - recovering costs, year R&D, giving the mod to a select few), discussed the cost, perceived cost of initial R&D, desire to channel funds into R&D - then $20.00 make crisp, clean, clear sense.

Before anyone questions my enthusiasm or care of the Legend...

I care about the Legend... I outright donate my services to MANY Acura-legend members who's finances are a bit LACKING. Among the many things I am able to do... lets look at what I charge for a complete brake job (and this is not a plug) $25.00. COMPLETE rotor, pad, ss lines, torqued, and fluid flush. Why do I ONLY charge $25.00 - because it is what I feel youngsters can come up with. They have this expensive car (that is affordable because of its age / mileage), insurance can be high, parts, etc and I feel some obligation to offer assistance to AL members. They feel good about the low cost, are forking over cash or a service, and I feel good because I feel like I am assisting (in some way) to the forum.

I am fully able to perform many labor-intensive tasks (clutch jobs, timing belt, water pump on down to the mundane things) to which my knowledge may be of use to someone and I get tired of all the bickering (and log off for lengths). The announcement of the modification shouldn't have read like a defunct book.

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ILOVELEGEND

Well said KNLNGUS. You summed up exactly what I had wanted to say.