Moonroof tilt complete - where do I sent my $20? - Page 6

takemorepills · 10-28-03, 07:57 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by imaginasian vboy
help?

Pops up for vent, comes back down and into the roof like usual when opened.

ChrisK · 10-28-03, 08:02 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Seattle
[BKeep in mind that if you're going to ask for money to pay for future mods, nearly every single person who puts in is going to want to have a say in what DIY's are developed. And when someone else is footing part of the bill, you're not just on your time anymore, you're on theirs also.

I [/b]

That is why it was presented the way it was. Just like the header project where we were asked to put money up front to help fund it. It turned into everyone who had money invested having a say which eventually the project fell apart. While I am speaking a lot for Mike and Graeme, and possibly may say something that they would not, (This part is for KNLNGUS) what is clear is that I did state that MikeC and Graeme wanted to recoupe a portion of the money spent on the Moonroof project because a lot of uneeded money was spent that they later found out was really not needed upon their trial and error. This in turn set them back a good deal of money they had intented to spend on future R&D and thus were asking for help. Now, I don't know if I stated that in those exact workd for the jist is the same. Also, I don't know if I posted that here or at AW.com so you may have missed it.

KNLNGUS,

Your proposed words or release was very well stated and probably should have been released that way in the past. However, nobody anticipated an uproar of name calling and second guessing of two of the older members who we all thought everyone knew and respected for all the great products they were invloved in. It was thought that it was going to be a simple ordeal and move on to further R&D.

I personally would not have come out so strong in defence if people didn't start questioning their motives and calling them rip offs out to make a fast buck. I am good friends with Mike outside of Legend stuff and although I never met Graeme in peson I am friends with him through the community and felt very upset when people started questioning their loyalty and commitment toward the Legend community. You can see why I personally would be upset at people who throw out accusations on two of these members when they clearly have no clue whatsoever.

Maybe me questioning everyones wants and need for future projects was a bit too far and blanket, but it really is directed to those who have no clue what these people did in the past and to those who have no clue what is actually takes to get things done. If it were as easy as getting parts made for a Civic then we probaly would never have to go through any of this.

What pisses my off is some people calling for community respect and how it should be when these are among some of the people who started the entire community and made it exactly how they quote it should be.

As far as the story changing, it hasn't. I was in talks with Mike because he wanted to gauge what people would think and what I thought people would pay to help out. I gave my opinion and I guess I was wrong about the whole thing. The typed words that were presented may not have told the whole story and that was a simple misjudegement on the presenting parties part, but like Mike said, nobody has a cystal ball and could have predicted such an uproar to something we all thought would be no big deal. The defense only started when people questioned why they wanted to make a PROFIT from this simple mod. After questions came out details were released as to what the money recouped where giong for. The reason why they didn't want to release the details of the sway bars and short shift kit is because it is still early in developement and it was going to be a pleasent supprise if and when it got finished. Once the BS started they had to release some of the details of the future projects to try and calm the wates, but that kind of deflated the entire supprise. It would have been great to post that they had sway bars and a short shift kit done and go out and buy it, but that is not the case anymore.

What this whole ordeal tought everyone who is behind the scenes who are attempting to make parts happen is that their can be no supprises. People in this community have short memories. People have no clue what exactly is going on to make parts available. They think it majically shows up. People tink those to are in contacts with companies are actually making profits from the developed parts. People are not willing to READ the entire posts before they make comments.

You are right. IN private emails and PMs since this started I have learned that many are willing to help out in a cause if it they know it is going to develope parts. What was atemped to be avoinded was drawing in these peolpe too early in developement and to avoid having too many investers that may want a vioce in who what when and where the parts are developed just like the Hi-tech header project that I eluded to. A simple recoupe in money for the moonroof project was mistakenly thought to be a simple easy way to recoupe some of the money and drop that toward the projects without having to officially ASK for donations which really they didn't want to do in the first place.

Like I said, the problem could have been that information about the future projects were intentionally withheld because they wanted it to be a pleasent supprise when it was all said and done. Remember, this is NOT a business where they thought full disclosure is needed. Like everyone one keeps trying to shove down our thoats. This is a community where everyone one helps out. Being that they mistakenly thought that everyone knew who they where and what they have done, it was thought that people would be happy to help these two fine gentlemem out based on their reputation and more importently their track record.

Now, If I have been wrong or people disagree with me in any one of my long posts, let me know where you disagree with me or where I am wrong? Up until know, I haven't seen anyone address my points or clear my points where I am fundalmentaly wrong.

Now, can someone go back up to my poll thread and make an official poll out of it. I still want to know where the entire or at least voting community stands on future Legend parts. Maybe nobody really cares for parts anymore and we just don't know it yet? While I am nolonger as involved as I was before, I still am involved behind the scense with Mike and Graeme and anyone else who contacts me for information, financial help, or whatever. I still have access to my Legends that I sold since it was sold to family members so I still get exxited when parts get made.

This has been a lesson for good and bad to those developing parts in the future. To those people they now know how simple wording can play havoc in the minds of people who are unclear. How unfortunate overlooked words can make people feel they are being ripped off regardless of who is posting said words. This will also dictate how future projects will be funded and released to the community if at all. There comes a time when simple misunderstandings that cause vendors to be looked upon as crooks becomes tiresome to those people and they nolonger want to do it anymore. Seriously, how can anyone really quesion Graeme and Mikes reputation, track record, and intentions after all that they have already done up to this point? That was not something we foreseen happening.

ZUBE25 · 10-28-03, 12:55 PM

Mike and Graeme:
I would do exactly what Mike said to be the remedy and that is "keep the majority out of this". Not me of course since you guys are my friends

but it sucks that you guys even have to consider doing that. I know you guys have always shared information and new mod's to these forums. I have always appreciated all the help you've given me. I've learned a lot from the both of you. I feel bad for you guys after reading some of this of bullsh$t that you guys have gotten from this, its not even worth it. You guys have always done a lot for the community and this mod probably never would have been thought of w/o you guys doing it. Whether its one or five people that b$tch about spending the $20 for the DIY, it shouldn't have to be like that. You guys can get the short shifter mod complete and then see how everyone begs to see pics and information on how it was done. And then laugh at them for how stupid some people acted on this topic. Like I said, it shouldn't have to be this way but damn, what else can you do.

ghodnett · 10-28-03, 01:56 PM

I am relatively new here and have been impressed with the quality and professionalism of the forum. But 4 or 5 pages of this nonsense is tiring. I hope that these differences won't hurt the quality of the forum in the future.

I also wanted to tell the guys with that tilt mod that I have been wanting that in my '93 sedan for some time. I never had the time to pull it off myself and check it out but I'm glad we've got some guys who take the time for the rest of us. Thanks guys!

I'll be looking for that DIY and let me know how you want the cash.

KNLNGUS · 10-29-03, 12:04 AM

ChrisK, thanks for taking the time to post such a response. I do feel a sense of calm and understanding after reading your post.

NOW...

This is for those you have emailed me in a negative light concerning me being TIGHT with my wallet - which I will address publicly.

Here is where passion rests (for those of you who are just drivers... with cash for mods) I may not be into R&D but I can tell you that unless you have accomplished ONE example of the following for the better of the forum members and legend community you can take keep your attitudes. In 1 purchase I ALONE purchased 4 complete sets of monroe shocks, 7 water pumps, 20 Master Cylinders, 4 Clutch Master Cylinders, 3 Slave Cylinders, 4 caliper rebuild kits, 6 pre tensioners, 4 timing belts, 2 complete clutch kits, 2 cooling fan motor assy. Through my job... I came across a company that purchases the stock of Auto Part Distributors who are going out of business and I passed on the savings. I outright sold what I could to those who were mechanically inclined and installed the rest. Thats right. I worked the phones and my schedule (weekends, evenings, even took off a day for a water pump, timing belt swap). I had Legend owners driving up from North Carolina and down from Jersey. I mean I really sold these parts for what I paid and charged rediculous labor. Allowed some people to sleep in my own home, eat my food, drink my beer, work on their vehicles while they watched and asked questions - I even allowed one member to use my vehicle for 6 hours while I worked on his car and we are not friends outside of this forum. I don't hang out with him, drink beer or anything - he was in a jam and I helped him out of it. Bare in mind... the items purchased above was only 1 purchase. I don't know how many times I have called jason at AOA ordered up the parts for members who don't know the difference between an MC and a Clutch MC. Now, I'm not calling EVERYONE out... JUST those few who emailed me their two cents... shove them up yourself.

I do feel connected to this community and feel as though I have gone above and beyond with my time, money, and mechanical ability (not in R&D). I do what I can and have sacrificed for others and appreciate those who invest their time and money.

TYPEII · 10-29-03, 05:18 AM

KNLNGUS,

I wished you had a twin bro here in the West!

Man, a person like you is rare in this day and age. My faith in mankind has been restored.

*Avarice* · 10-29-03, 05:26 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by TYPEII
KNLNGUS,

I wished you had a twin bro here in the West! Man, a person like you is rare in this day and age. My faith in mankind has been restored.

Yea he's the man! Sold me a MC when mines was going on for only $50 shipped

KNLNGUS · 10-29-03, 05:30 AM

Thanks TYPEII and Avarice - I do remember advertising on the forum (new bowl, new lid w/ connectors, no tax, no core charge, no shipping) - glad you took me up on that as well as the many others that did the same. I can still remember installing them for $15.00 complete with a fluid flush.

mYbabYLeGend · 10-29-03, 05:31 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by KNLNGUS

I do feel connected to this community and feel as though I have gone above and beyond with my time, money, and mechanical ability (not in R&D). I do what I can and have sacrificed for others and appreciate those who invest their time and money.

ok not to get off topic but i remember the first person i PM was you and u were whilling to fix my master window switches. Your the man!!!

Here my opinion, this forum not like how it was when i first joined. We all come here to talk about our Legend, share ideas and thoughts.

I respect what ChrisK,MikeC and LegendGs is sayin.

I opened up my moonroof yesterday morning and started looking at it closely, and i did it myself.

Lets not blow it out of proportion please.

-hass

PhantomTRD · 10-29-03, 06:34 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by solaide
this mod is really easy to figure out. Just go and look at the mechanism of your sunroof. I looked at my G1 mechanism today and figured it out immediately.

PM me on how to do it!!!

WicKeD LeGEnD · 10-29-03, 08:02 AM

Damn why is everone giving KNLNGUS a hard time,...he's a very good member of this forum....i've never dealt with him...but i've been on this forum LONG enough to know how much he has dedicated to this community..hes just voicing his opinion,....everyone has a right to that....

WhiteLegend · 10-29-03, 09:38 AM

jesus christ

Most of you probably don't remember or don't know what it was like to own a legend more than 4 years ago. What? you guys think mods and parts for legends just just grow on trees?
Where do you think parts like clear corners, clear bumpers, indiglo gauges, intakes, exhausts, strut bars, red/clear/red taillights, shocks, springs and etc, comes from?
Some one or some company spend time, effort and $$ to get them developed, now if that company or person are unable to recover R&D cost, do you really think they will try to make anything else for the legend after that??? Most of you are too narrow sighted to see anything beyond your own wallets, if you're too cheap to fork out $20 and too lazy to do your own R&D, then maybe you shouldn't drive a legend. There are some of us that remembers when APC clears cost $100 a set, intakes cost $300 or more, indiglo gauges at $100. People still bought them at these what would be outragous prices today, because we knew if parts or mods come out for the legend and no one is willing to pay the $$$ to buy it, then the legend aftermarket will never be what it is today.

ChrisK, LegendGS, MikeC and other have brought you parts like MLS strut bar copies, intakes, cold air boxes and HIDs and etc, mods such as wiring aftermarket amps to stock headunit, etc. and countless amount of general legend knowlegde. You would think people would have more respect and grateful for just the mere inspiration they have brought among us. I can garantee that NONE of you would ever think or even dream of achieving moonroof mod if it weren't for the inspiration of LegendGS and MikeC, and that alone should be well worth $20.

You guys probably don't realise this, but by being cheap and selfish, you guys just destroyed any chance of getting more mods and parts made for Legends.

ChrisK · 10-29-03, 09:46 AM

I just like to point out it was never about the $20 or any other type of money for me. The only reason why I posted so much defense was because of the few people that were questioning Their motives and their charactor. Since I know many of the others and Mike personally, I know things that others may not about what they are doing not only for the Legends but other things as well. The simple fact was even without the $20 help no matter which way it ultimately came from, those other projects would still have gotten underway eventually. It just might take a little longer and after the results of my poll, it just may be release in a more controlled way.

Also, while I always mentioned that their has been many people who have done a lot not just the two in question, I couldn't remember everyone, so my statements about knowing what it takes before you speak is obviously not directed to those that actually know what it takes.

As far as the poll is concern, I just wanted to see a general ideal of how many of us actually believe in the sharing community atmostphere. Many people keep saying how is should be, and how is was, and what they would do, but at least as of right now, that number is barely 50% of the voters. The rest want things but rather someone else carry the burden.

Don't take this as an argument. I'm done defending Mike and Graeme because at this point I don't really care what type of parts everyone else gets or how they get it. I'm still working with them as much as I can as whenever they choose to call me if the need any sort of help. I know I will gain access to whatever parts they bring to the table if I want it, so I really am not worried where my future parts will come from. It really all started with good inentions, but like they say, you can't please everyone.

**B+O** · 10-29-03, 10:00 AM

yo George and Chris, you have done all you can...i love your posts chris they are always so eloquent and perfectly done..plus LOOONG (that is a good thing-i just grab a snack and bundle up near the computer to read Chris' posts

) but what you guys have to do is let it go. you are inherently talkin to like 166-18 y/o who just showed up not too long ago. i mean im only 19 but i been hangin around for like how long? 5 years, 6 years something like that..i havebeen watching for about 6. back when there was HARDLY ANYTHING for the legend, i slowly saw parts popping up, i was there to witness the birth of the now ever so popular"ViS Cyber" kit (as well you two and all the other OGs-counting Graeme Mike C, Dave, Leon, Christian-Dv8, Zol etc.) i mean you have to look at what they know...they know "Cyber". Not the Kit per se, but that time frame. Post-Apocolyptic legend.org format change

. You know? so please dont really read too much into it if thats how they feel let them feel that way, just know that...now that i understand the deal, i gotchu and pretty much all the OGs have you (going to Graeme and MikeC). Just calm down, breathe easy, you've done a great job on keeping your composer as two grown men should, and please dont be discouraged because you two are some of the last staples, ya know? the book is about to fall apart!

Anyways, just....everybody get off ya buttcheeks and try to do something constructive. make yourself useful

.

I lost my way somewhere in there so it ended up being just a jumble of lame words but you ge tthe point

.

one...

^i been biting Fut's style lately...that man is just too coo

Johnny Kim · 10-31-03, 09:06 AM

i GOT IT TOO work!!!

10-28-03, 12:55 PM	#78 (permalink)
ZUBE25 Kngh R*der Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: San Luis Obispo, CA Posts: 959 Car 1: 1994 GS Sedan 6-Spd iTrader: (1)	Mike and Graeme: I would do exactly what Mike said to be the remedy and that is "keep the majority out of this". Not me of course since you guys are my friends but it sucks that you guys even have to consider doing that. I know you guys have always shared information and new mod's to these forums. I have always appreciated all the help you've given me. I've learned a lot from the both of you. I feel bad for you guys after reading some of this of bullsh$t that you guys have gotten from this, its not even worth it. You guys have always done a lot for the community and this mod probably never would have been thought of w/o you guys doing it. Whether its one or five people that b$tch about spending the $20 for the DIY, it shouldn't have to be like that. You guys can get the short shifter mod complete and then see how everyone begs to see pics and information on how it was done. And then laugh at them for how stupid some people acted on this topic. Like I said, it shouldn't have to be this way but damn, what else can you do. __________________ 2nd Generation FAQ...Click here Zube25 Gallery

10-29-03, 12:04 AM	#80 (permalink)
KNLNGUS Registered User Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Northern Virgina Posts: 726 Car 1: 95 6spd coupe iTrader: (0)	ChrisK, thanks for taking the time to post such a response. I do feel a sense of calm and understanding after reading your post. NOW... This is for those you have emailed me in a negative light concerning me being TIGHT with my wallet - which I will address publicly. Here is where passion rests (for those of you who are just drivers... with cash for mods) I may not be into R&D but I can tell you that unless you have accomplished ONE example of the following for the better of the forum members and legend community you can take keep your attitudes. In 1 purchase I ALONE purchased 4 complete sets of monroe shocks, 7 water pumps, 20 Master Cylinders, 4 Clutch Master Cylinders, 3 Slave Cylinders, 4 caliper rebuild kits, 6 pre tensioners, 4 timing belts, 2 complete clutch kits, 2 cooling fan motor assy. Through my job... I came across a company that purchases the stock of Auto Part Distributors who are going out of business and I passed on the savings. I outright sold what I could to those who were mechanically inclined and installed the rest. Thats right. I worked the phones and my schedule (weekends, evenings, even took off a day for a water pump, timing belt swap). I had Legend owners driving up from North Carolina and down from Jersey. I mean I really sold these parts for what I paid and charged rediculous labor. Allowed some people to sleep in my own home, eat my food, drink my beer, work on their vehicles while they watched and asked questions - I even allowed one member to use my vehicle for 6 hours while I worked on his car and we are not friends outside of this forum. I don't hang out with him, drink beer or anything - he was in a jam and I helped him out of it. Bare in mind... the items purchased above was only 1 purchase. I don't know how many times I have called jason at AOA ordered up the parts for members who don't know the difference between an MC and a Clutch MC. Now, I'm not calling EVERYONE out... JUST those few who emailed me their two cents... shove them up yourself. I do feel connected to this community and feel as though I have gone above and beyond with my time, money, and mechanical ability (not in R&D). I do what I can and have sacrificed for others and appreciate those who invest their time and money. __________________ <img src="http://pic1.picturetrail.com:80/VOL103/633472/1073748/12470473.jpg">

10-29-03, 05:18 AM	#81 (permalink)
TYPEII BBall*n' Member Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Utah Posts: 1,450 Car 1: 1994 LS Coupe Car 2: 1999 VIP Lexus GS400 Car 3: 1991 CRX si iTrader: (3)	KNLNGUS, I wished you had a twin bro here in the West! Man, a person like you is rare in this day and age. My faith in mankind has been restored. __________________ 94 Coupe LS-Taffeta White 19" Racing Hart C2 19 x 7.5 +45 offset Falken Ziex 502 235-35-19 Carbon Fiber Hood from Japan JDM 1-Piece Headlight with Audi A6 HID projectors and 6000K Philips Ultinons Sound system: Pioneer AVIC-N1, Pioneer XDV-P90 DVD changer, JL Audio 12W7, JL Audio 1000/1, Soundstream Reference 604, MB Quart, Diamond Audio Eibach and Konis, Greddy Exhaust, Mugen Pedals, 2-Tone Leather—Plus, tons more...

10-29-03, 05:30 AM	#83 (permalink)
KNLNGUS Registered User Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Northern Virgina Posts: 726 Car 1: 95 6spd coupe iTrader: (0)	Thanks TYPEII and Avarice - I do remember advertising on the forum (new bowl, new lid w/ connectors, no tax, no core charge, no shipping) - glad you took me up on that as well as the many others that did the same. I can still remember installing them for $15.00 complete with a fluid flush. __________________ <img src="http://pic1.picturetrail.com:80/VOL103/633472/1073748/12470473.jpg">

10-29-03, 08:02 AM	#86 (permalink)
WicKeD LeGEnD P*mp! Join Date: May 2002 Location: Queenz, NY Posts: 1,267 Car 1: 91' Vineyard Grey Metallic Sedan iTrader: (0)	Damn why is everone giving KNLNGUS a hard time,...he's a very good member of this forum....i've never dealt with him...but i've been on this forum LONG enough to know how much he has dedicated to this community..hes just voicing his opinion,....everyone has a right to that.... __________________ http://www.imagestation.com/picture/...5/f8a94485.jpg Mods: OEM 4300K HID's (Philips) GS Rims/ Wrapped in Toyo Proxes Tires Custom Red Tinted Tails 2 Rockford Fosgate HE2 10's (1 Blown, Looking for Replacement, got one?, shoot me a PM) 1 Rockford Fosgate Amp (4 x 150W) Alpine IVA-C801 Indash Multimedia Station Alpine ERA-G320 Sound Processor Alpine V-Power MRP-F240 4 Channel AMP Pioneer Speakers All Around Blaupunkt DVD-ME3 DVD/MP3/TV Tuner

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10-28-03, 01:56 PM	#79 (permalink)
ghodnett Registered User Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: SLC Posts: 73 Car 1: '93 Legend iTrader: (0)	I am relatively new here and have been impressed with the quality and professionalism of the forum. But 4 or 5 pages of this nonsense is tiring. I hope that these differences won't hurt the quality of the forum in the future. I also wanted to tell the guys with that tilt mod that I have been wanting that in my '93 sedan for some time. I never had the time to pull it off myself and check it out but I'm glad we've got some guys who take the time for the rest of us. Thanks guys! I'll be looking for that DIY and let me know how you want the cash.

10-29-03, 09:38 AM	#87 (permalink)
WhiteLegend Registered User Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 3,745 Car 1: 94 Milano Red LS coupe 6spd iTrader: (0)	jesus christ Most of you probably don't remember or don't know what it was like to own a legend more than 4 years ago. What? you guys think mods and parts for legends just just grow on trees? Where do you think parts like clear corners, clear bumpers, indiglo gauges, intakes, exhausts, strut bars, red/clear/red taillights, shocks, springs and etc, comes from? Some one or some company spend time, effort and $$ to get them developed, now if that company or person are unable to recover R&D cost, do you really think they will try to make anything else for the legend after that??? Most of you are too narrow sighted to see anything beyond your own wallets, if you're too cheap to fork out $20 and too lazy to do your own R&D, then maybe you shouldn't drive a legend. There are some of us that remembers when APC clears cost $100 a set, intakes cost $300 or more, indiglo gauges at $100. People still bought them at these what would be outragous prices today, because we knew if parts or mods come out for the legend and no one is willing to pay the $$$ to buy it, then the legend aftermarket will never be what it is today. ChrisK, LegendGS, MikeC and other have brought you parts like MLS strut bar copies, intakes, cold air boxes and HIDs and etc, mods such as wiring aftermarket amps to stock headunit, etc. and countless amount of general legend knowlegde. You would think people would have more respect and grateful for just the mere inspiration they have brought among us. I can garantee that NONE of you would ever think or even dream of achieving moonroof mod if it weren't for the inspiration of LegendGS and MikeC, and that alone should be well worth $20. You guys probably don't realise this, but by being cheap and selfish, you guys just destroyed any chance of getting more mods and parts made for Legends. __________________ 94 Milano Red LS coupe 6 speed 94 Pearl White LS Sedan (sold )

10-29-03, 09:46 AM	#88 (permalink)
ChrisK 0000$$$$0000####0000 Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Hawaii Posts: 4,972 Car 1: Acura iTrader: (0)	I just like to point out it was never about the $20 or any other type of money for me. The only reason why I posted so much defense was because of the few people that were questioning Their motives and their charactor. Since I know many of the others and Mike personally, I know things that others may not about what they are doing not only for the Legends but other things as well. The simple fact was even without the $20 help no matter which way it ultimately came from, those other projects would still have gotten underway eventually. It just might take a little longer and after the results of my poll, it just may be release in a more controlled way. Also, while I always mentioned that their has been many people who have done a lot not just the two in question, I couldn't remember everyone, so my statements about knowing what it takes before you speak is obviously not directed to those that actually know what it takes. As far as the poll is concern, I just wanted to see a general ideal of how many of us actually believe in the sharing community atmostphere. Many people keep saying how is should be, and how is was, and what they would do, but at least as of right now, that number is barely 50% of the voters. The rest want things but rather someone else carry the burden. Don't take this as an argument. I'm done defending Mike and Graeme because at this point I don't really care what type of parts everyone else gets or how they get it. I'm still working with them as much as I can as whenever they choose to call me if the need any sort of help. I know I will gain access to whatever parts they bring to the table if I want it, so I really am not worried where my future parts will come from. It really all started with good inentions, but like they say, you can't please everyone.

10-29-03, 10:00 AM	#89 (permalink)
B+O The Mac vs. The Mack Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: VSC Moderator Posts: 12,427 Car 1: why? iTrader: (1)	yo George and Chris, you have done all you can...i love your posts chris they are always so eloquent and perfectly done..plus LOOONG (that is a good thing-i just grab a snack and bundle up near the computer to read Chris' posts ) but what you guys have to do is let it go. you are inherently talkin to like 166-18 y/o who just showed up not too long ago. i mean im only 19 but i been hangin around for like how long? 5 years, 6 years something like that..i havebeen watching for about 6. back when there was HARDLY ANYTHING for the legend, i slowly saw parts popping up, i was there to witness the birth of the now ever so popular"ViS Cyber" kit (as well you two and all the other OGs-counting Graeme Mike C, Dave, Leon, Christian-Dv8, Zol etc.) i mean you have to look at what they know...they know "Cyber". Not the Kit per se, but that time frame. Post-Apocolyptic legend.org format change. You know? so please dont really read too much into it if thats how they feel let them feel that way, just know that...now that i understand the deal, i gotchu and pretty much all the OGs have you (going to Graeme and MikeC). Just calm down, breathe easy, you've done a great job on keeping your composer as two grown men should, and please dont be discouraged because you two are some of the last staples, ya know? the book is about to fall apart! Anyways, just....everybody get off ya buttcheeks and try to do something constructive. make yourself useful. I lost my way somewhere in there so it ended up being just a jumble of lame words but you ge tthe point. one... ^i been biting Fut's style lately...that man is just too coo __________________ "Untainted by Concept of Limitation" -BozzSpeed -Reiko my baby -The MAIN person Thank you Leon. Your words help God said it, and it was so. Forum Rules *flossin,* breakin off the intersection crossin RL'in, ackin a iz-ass on them bosses

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