my fuel is getting even worse then before

FlyingDutchMan · 12-19-03, 09:38 AM

ok all you all know my post about the km to full tank

first i got like 375 km before the tank was empty

i fixed new spark plugs , new oil filter , new oil , new gas filter , new air filter

and i was drivening even slower

now all i can drive is 300km then the tank is completely emty

what is wrong with my car any ideas

the car aint leaking any gas as what i can see had it on a brige for the whole day searching but cant find any thing

need some help here pls

300km on a full tank is

bigdad · 12-19-03, 12:13 PM

fuel pressure regulation needs to be checked, may have a dripping or leaking injector (check the level, viscosity, color and odor of your oil .....gasoline contamination will darken it quickly, thin it, make it smell like gas). How about any other symptoms like black smoke out exhaust....is EGR valve clogged, PCV valve stuck???? Is the check engine warning light on? I got about 21 Miles per gallon (US) in my 94 coupe. With an 18 gal. tank that is about 375 miles from totally full to totally empty....but I suspect that you are calling empty when the needle hits the E and the warning light comes on....that still leaves about 3 gallons inside. If you get only 300km and use 15 gal. you are getting about 190 miles for 15 gal. or about 12.6 Miles per gallon....not very good....in city driving you should expect about 17-19 mpg.

pipes_0 · 12-19-03, 04:53 PM

no way!!! now this is really bad...a tune-up shouldn't make your mailage worst, just curius what spark plug did you get and was it properly gapped? maybe as bagdad has mention there might be a problem with the fuel or emission system do you get any engine codes? and what kind of octane gas do you use? keep us updated with your situation and good luck.

FlyingDutchMan · 12-19-03, 07:54 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by bigdad
fuel pressure regulation needs to be checked, may have a dripping or leaking injector (check the level, viscosity, color and odor of your oil .....gasoline contamination will darken it quickly, thin it, make it smell like gas). How about any other symptoms like black smoke out exhaust....is EGR valve clogged, PCV valve stuck???? Is the check engine warning light on? I got about 21 Miles per gallon (US) in my 94 coupe. With an 18 gal. tank that is about 375 miles from totally full to totally empty....but I suspect that you are calling empty when the needle hits the E and the warning light comes on....that still leaves about 3 gallons inside. If you get only 300km and use 15 gal. you are getting about 190 miles for 15 gal. or about 12.6 Miles per gallon....not very good....in city driving you should expect about 17-19 mpg.

ok here is the update

- no engine lights

-EGR valve , PCV valve work good checked it 3 times

- exhaust is clean no black of white smoke just normal

- bought some kind of injectors cleaning stuff will put it next time i fill her up in the tank

- wen i mean emty i mean empty not that the light is on even spare gas is gone i DO NOT DRIVE IT COMPLETELY EMPTY but i drive like 5 or 6 liters in the spare tank

-got the the NGK spark plugs from the honda dealer

- got the castrol 10w-40 sintetic oil still look pretty clean after 4 days that i put it in

- any ideas ?

FlyingDutchMan · 12-19-03, 07:56 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by pipes_0
no way!!! now this is really bad...a tune-up shouldn't make your mailage worst, just curius what spark plug did you get and was it properly gapped? maybe as bagdad has mention there might be a problem with the fuel or emission system do you get any engine codes? and what kind of octane gas do you use? keep us updated with your situation and good luck.

- the NGK ones from the honda dealer

- i use euro 95 gasoline

-no engine codes m8

- any ideas ?

LPB · 12-19-03, 09:25 PM

How many miles are on this vehicle? Besides what as been mentioned, need to test each injector resistor, the CAT could be restricted, worn throttle body or a problem in the air injection or chamber volume control system. You didn't recently change to a different set of tires -- rolling resistance. Check tire pressures. You don't have a caliper failing to fully retract?

pipes_0 · 12-19-03, 09:34 PM

Quote:

How many miles are on this vehicle? Besides what as been mentioned, need to test each injector resistor, the CAT could be restricted, worn throttle body or a problem in the air injection or chamber volume control system. You didn't recently change to a different set of tires -- rolling resistance. Check tire pressures. You don't have a caliper failing to fully retract?

LPB very good points made.

i'm really stuck on this one

do you notice any lack of power when you push your car?? if your car is running stock and your getting bad milage, there should definately be a performance lost as well. At what rpm does your car idle at when its warm? it may be the timing control, it effects the gas milage as the hynes book says. perhaps someone with more knowledge in this field or somebody with a helm book can help out?? btw i'm using 91 octane the manual says 91 and up but try using one that is lower it may help a bit for now

FlyingDutchMan · 12-19-03, 10:46 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by LPB
How many miles are on this vehicle? Besides what as been mentioned, need to test each injector resistor, the CAT could be restricted, worn throttle body or a problem in the air injection or chamber volume control system. You didn't recently change to a different set of tires -- rolling resistance. Check tire pressures. You don't have a caliper failing to fully retract?

goin to check all the resistors next week

km= 234000

didnt change the tires there still pretty good

i have no power loss i think it runs good

my rpm are

ill be goin on a snowboard trip today ill be back before the end of the year merry x mass to all

hope we can fix this problem

bigdad · 12-20-03, 12:50 PM

Do you have to take emissions tests in Holland? If so, what is your hydrocarbon emission....that would be indicative of unburned gas if high (rich mixture). I suspect the fuel system.....sensors or metering is off somewhere, especially with a sudden dramatic drop in mileage. Look for items that either increase fuel supply (like cold start system thermosensor to increase stroke for injectors) or things that can restrict the amount of air (plugged air filter, restricted air supply) to the engine....in what condition are the new plugs....sooty? black? or nice and tan....how did old plugs look if these are too new to read? Leaking injectors (even just one will put a lot of gas down the cylinder wall, so DO BE SURE to check your OIL condition as suggested). Checking all plugs may be able to isolate the problem to ONE cylinder rather than systemic source. Is your exhaust pipe all sooty at exit? Plugged exhaust system or CAT or restricted air to engine will usually cause performance drop as rpms increase. If you hold your hand over exhaust pipe exit (do not burn yourself, do when cold) is exhaust pressure significant or weak?

LPB · 12-20-03, 09:27 PM

Another component which will cause a rapid drop in power and/or performance is a failed or failing ECU. Need to make sure it is functional. Your lack of any codes could be due to this. Most of the components/subsystems which would result in decreased power/performance are monitored by various sensors and would set codes if defective.

If you don't own a HELM specific to your vehicle, you need to buy one.

When the patient is correctly diagnosed and the repair performed, repost or update. We can all learn from this.

bigdad · 12-21-03, 06:07 AM

Yeah, I thought the same thing...how come NO CODES....is this in limp home mode?

ka8legend · 12-21-03, 08:41 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by FlyingDutchMan
i have no power loss i think it runs good

Not sure about the legend, but my other cars didn't have much power at all when purposely triggered into limp mode. One quick way to determine failing ECU is disconnect the EGR hose #11 and go for a normal drive. As soon as the car goes above 15mph, the engine check light will light up and that should confirm a working ecu.

12-19-03, 09:38 AM	#1 (permalink)
FlyingDutchMan Registered User Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: amsterdam Posts: 74 Car 1: honda legend 3.2 iTrader: (0)	my fuel is getting even worse then before ok all you all know my post about the km to full tank first i got like 375 km before the tank was empty i fixed new spark plugs , new oil filter , new oil , new gas filter , new air filter and i was drivening even slower now all i can drive is 300km then the tank is completely emty what is wrong with my car any ideas the car aint leaking any gas as what i can see had it on a brige for the whole day searching but cant find any thing need some help here pls 300km on a full tank is __________________ yeah its a http://members.roadfly.org/ilan/car_logo.gif GOT A PROBLEM..! my car http://www.imagestation.com/album/?id=4288313537 Last edited by FlyingDutchMan : 12-19-03 at 09:51 AM.

12-19-03, 09:25 PM	#6 (permalink)
LPB Registered User Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Massachusetts Posts: 4,144 Car 1: 1992 Seattle Silver LS CPE Car 2: 2007 Toyota Corolla Car 3: 1981 Corvette iTrader: (2)	How many miles are on this vehicle? Besides what as been mentioned, need to test each injector resistor, the CAT could be restricted, worn throttle body or a problem in the air injection or chamber volume control system. You didn't recently change to a different set of tires -- rolling resistance. Check tire pressures. You don't have a caliper failing to fully retract? __________________ Eyebrows KMS Strut Bar Enkei 16" J-Lips Wings West Spoiler w/LED Clear Corner Lens Clear Bumper Lens Clear Rear Side Markers Brembo X-Drilled/Slotted Stainless Braided Brake Hoses Focus 2500 Driving Lamps Gold Pkg

12-20-03, 09:27 PM	#10 (permalink)
LPB Registered User Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Massachusetts Posts: 4,144 Car 1: 1992 Seattle Silver LS CPE Car 2: 2007 Toyota Corolla Car 3: 1981 Corvette iTrader: (2)	Another component which will cause a rapid drop in power and/or performance is a failed or failing ECU. Need to make sure it is functional. Your lack of any codes could be due to this. Most of the components/subsystems which would result in decreased power/performance are monitored by various sensors and would set codes if defective. If you don't own a HELM specific to your vehicle, you need to buy one. When the patient is correctly diagnosed and the repair performed, repost or update. We can all learn from this. __________________ Eyebrows KMS Strut Bar Enkei 16" J-Lips Wings West Spoiler w/LED Clear Corner Lens Clear Bumper Lens Clear Rear Side Markers Brembo X-Drilled/Slotted Stainless Braided Brake Hoses Focus 2500 Driving Lamps Gold Pkg

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12-19-03, 12:13 PM	#2 (permalink)
bigdad Registered User Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 1,450 iTrader: (0)	fuel pressure regulation needs to be checked, may have a dripping or leaking injector (check the level, viscosity, color and odor of your oil .....gasoline contamination will darken it quickly, thin it, make it smell like gas). How about any other symptoms like black smoke out exhaust....is EGR valve clogged, PCV valve stuck???? Is the check engine warning light on? I got about 21 Miles per gallon (US) in my 94 coupe. With an 18 gal. tank that is about 375 miles from totally full to totally empty....but I suspect that you are calling empty when the needle hits the E and the warning light comes on....that still leaves about 3 gallons inside. If you get only 300km and use 15 gal. you are getting about 190 miles for 15 gal. or about 12.6 Miles per gallon....not very good....in city driving you should expect about 17-19 mpg.

12-19-03, 04:53 PM	#3 (permalink)
pipes_0 Registered User Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: speed heaven Posts: 429 Car 1: Acura 2dr Coupe iTrader: (0)	no way!!! now this is really bad...a tune-up shouldn't make your mailage worst, just curius what spark plug did you get and was it properly gapped? maybe as bagdad has mention there might be a problem with the fuel or emission system do you get any engine codes? and what kind of octane gas do you use? keep us updated with your situation and good luck.

12-20-03, 12:50 PM	#9 (permalink)
bigdad Registered User Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 1,450 iTrader: (0)	Do you have to take emissions tests in Holland? If so, what is your hydrocarbon emission....that would be indicative of unburned gas if high (rich mixture). I suspect the fuel system.....sensors or metering is off somewhere, especially with a sudden dramatic drop in mileage. Look for items that either increase fuel supply (like cold start system thermosensor to increase stroke for injectors) or things that can restrict the amount of air (plugged air filter, restricted air supply) to the engine....in what condition are the new plugs....sooty? black? or nice and tan....how did old plugs look if these are too new to read? Leaking injectors (even just one will put a lot of gas down the cylinder wall, so DO BE SURE to check your OIL condition as suggested). Checking all plugs may be able to isolate the problem to ONE cylinder rather than systemic source. Is your exhaust pipe all sooty at exit? Plugged exhaust system or CAT or restricted air to engine will usually cause performance drop as rpms increase. If you hold your hand over exhaust pipe exit (do not burn yourself, do when cold) is exhaust pressure significant or weak?

12-21-03, 06:07 AM	#11 (permalink)
bigdad Registered User Join Date: Feb 2002 Posts: 1,450 iTrader: (0)	Yeah, I thought the same thing...how come NO CODES....is this in limp home mode?

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