my rear suspension is sagging a tiny bit! is it due to weak springs or shocks?

91LegendCoupe · 08-29-02, 05:18 PM

I have stock springs and shocks. They feel good and make NO noise whatsoever.

but I noticed that the rear end is just a bit lower than your normal legend coupe.

Would this sag be due to the shocks going bad or the springs goiing bad? or both?

LeoLegendATL · 08-29-02, 06:39 PM

mine did this too, before I lowered. I think it is from metal fatigue on the springs.

CakeDaddy · 08-29-02, 07:04 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by 91LegendCoupe
I have stock springs and shocks. They feel good and make NO noise whatsoever.

but I noticed that the rear end is just a bit lower than your normal legend coupe.

Would this sag be due to the shocks going bad or the springs goiing bad? or both?

Perfect time to bust out with the Koni/Eibach!

Cresap · 08-29-02, 07:51 PM

so what is the cost difference between using oem shocks and springs vs. aftermarket, I'm thinking about doing the same thing. My legend is 11 years old and I know the suspension is not what it used to be.

ikata · 08-30-02, 12:28 AM

Two days after I come accross a problem and somebody will ask the same question. So I get the answers and save myself the typing

My 91 4D LS has the same sagging in the back. In my opinion it hurts the otherwise awesome stance of the car. Is replacing the springs the only solution to this? If I were to do it is it a do-it-yourselfer or is it for a mechanic? Thanks!

LeoLegendATL · 08-30-02, 01:13 AM

It's a definate do it yourself, if your somewhat mechanically inclined. Me and a friend just replaced all my springs. If your looking for new springs or shocks, go with aftermarket. The OEM parts are more expensive and don't perform as well as say koni's or eibachs.

91LegendCoupe · 08-30-02, 01:25 AM

let's just say I wanna even it out.

If sagging is the case, what would be the cause of it? bad shocks or bad springs?

You see, I don't really wanna drop it right now. It looks good just the way it is. I just wanna isolate the problem (whether it be the strut or spring) and replace the strut or spring. I don't want to have to replace both the strut and springs when I only need to replace the struts.

ikata · 08-30-02, 02:03 AM

Thanks LeoLegendATL!

Do the koni's or eibachs preserve the luxury ride of the car though? I don't really want to go the performance route with the Legend (I do that with my CRX

) The Legend I just want to keep in good shape.

91LegendCoupe, I am pretty sure the sagging is due to bad springs. Bad shocks would create dinamic problems (when the suspension is in motion: wabling ride, understeer etc). Somebody correct me if I am wrong, please!

Bread · 08-30-02, 02:21 AM

You are correct ikata, Springs control ride-height, shocks and struts control the movement. If your car is sagging then the springs are worn. If your car bounces too much then the struts/shocks are bad.

The koni struts are fully adjustable for ride stiffness, but are a waste of money if you want a stock ride. They are designed to be used in conjunction with lowering springs because their spring-rate requires more aggressive dampening. For example, a car that's been dropped with 1.75" drop springs will bounce too much with a stock strut. A stiffer strut setting will calm the bounce. The setup together will provide a stiffer ride. That's the compromise. Lower=better looks (IMO), better handeling, and a firm to harsh ride depending on how extreme the drop.

The Eibach spring has the least amount of drop (1.1") out of the aftermarket spring bunch. The ride is "sporty" compared to stock, but not harsh. You could run an Eibach spring with stock struts. But since your only concern is the ride-height being too low already, you can purchase hard rubber spacers from the dealership to shim up the sagging springs. Much cheaper than replacing a stock spring with another stock spring.

ikata · 08-30-02, 04:51 AM

Hmmmmmm. VERY pleased to hear of those hard rubber spacers, Bread!!! Is this a standard treatment for aging springs (i.e. would the dealer know what I am talking about) or is this something that you guys have figured out on your own and the dealer happens to carry them. I assume, since it was already mentioned that replacing the springs is a do-it-yourselfer, that I can do the rubber spacers as well, correct? Now here is a good weekend project... I would love to get the rear of the car a little higher as it seems it was intended to be. Thanks for the good info!

**502 MotorSports** · 08-30-02, 08:37 AM

In additiono to what Bread said, you can actually get those rubber spacers from your local Pep-BOys, Advance or Auto Zone for like $4-$5.

Mount them in the same position on each coil...i.e. coil 1, coil 2 coil 3 each have one at 3 o'clock, and then another 3 at 9 o'clock.

I hope you get the gist of what I am saying...if you can imagine your spring here -----> [] 3 o'clock is the right, 9 o'clock is the left side. You do this on both sides of the car, which means you need a total of 3 packs of spacers (4 per pack).

Good luck

CakeDaddy · 08-30-02, 12:28 PM

HMM, do those spacers ruin the allignment or throw the camber off any? Just curious

CakeDaddy · 08-30-02, 01:24 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by 91LegendCoupe
I have stock springs and shocks. They feel good and make NO noise whatsoever.

but I noticed that the rear end is just a bit lower than your normal legend coupe.

Would this sag be due to the shocks going bad or the springs goiing bad? or both?

Hey 91LegendCoupe,

Antother option may the OEM springs and The Koni shox on the upper perch and soft setting. I believe Chris K has this setup.
I seriously doubt if the springs are bad, sounds like the shox are going out.

91LegendCoupe · 08-30-02, 02:03 PM

ok guys, I'm getting mixed info.

one guy says it's the strut that's causing the sag and another guys says it's the springs.

which is it?

Bread · 08-30-02, 02:20 PM

CakeDaddy is referring to the fact that the Koni struts have an adjustable spring perch mount. There are three notches cut into the strut where you can adjust the ride-height by about an inch up or down. This is not the option for you because as I mentioned earlier, Koni struts are a waste of money if you're looking for a stock ride, and that notch will lift the car much higher than you want to go. Forget this option.

Leon, the spacers at the auto parts store are not the ones I'm talking about. Those Pep Boys spacers are wedged in-between the springs and could potentially fall out when going over large bumps.

The spacers I'm referring to are rubber rings that are the diameter of the spring. You pull the strut apart, remove the cap and place the spacer on top of the entire spring, then put it back together. I originally purchased these from a Chevy dealer for my S-10. The factory had stamped the control arm a bit off on one side causing it to sit un-even, so this spacer was the fix for it. The ring looked like it was cut out of an old tire-tread.

08-29-02, 05:18 PM	#1 (permalink)
91LegendCoupe Banned Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: California Posts: 1,976 iTrader: (1)	my rear suspension is sagging a tiny bit! is it due to weak springs or shocks? I have stock springs and shocks. They feel good and make NO noise whatsoever. but I noticed that the rear end is just a bit lower than your normal legend coupe. Would this sag be due to the shocks going bad or the springs goiing bad? or both?

08-29-02, 06:39 PM	#2 (permalink)
LeoLegendATL S K / L L Z Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Marietta, GA Posts: 1,153 Car 1: 91 LS coupe (boost coming soon! (or not)) iTrader: (0)	mine did this too, before I lowered. I think it is from metal fatigue on the springs. __________________ Peace, Legendary Legendz CC LegendaryLegendz.com http://images.snapfish.com/342%3A%3B...449%3A53ot1lsi INSPIRATION

08-30-02, 12:28 AM	#5 (permalink)
ikata Registered User Join Date: May 2002 Location: Providence, RI Posts: 411 Car 1: 1991LS Sedan Car 2: 89 CRX Si iTrader: (1)	I love this board... Two days after I come accross a problem and somebody will ask the same question. So I get the answers and save myself the typing My 91 4D LS has the same sagging in the back. In my opinion it hurts the otherwise awesome stance of the car. Is replacing the springs the only solution to this? If I were to do it is it a do-it-yourselfer or is it for a mechanic? Thanks!

08-30-02, 01:13 AM	#6 (permalink)
LeoLegendATL S K / L L Z Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Marietta, GA Posts: 1,153 Car 1: 91 LS coupe (boost coming soon! (or not)) iTrader: (0)	It's a definate do it yourself, if your somewhat mechanically inclined. Me and a friend just replaced all my springs. If your looking for new springs or shocks, go with aftermarket. The OEM parts are more expensive and don't perform as well as say koni's or eibachs. __________________ Peace, Legendary Legendz CC LegendaryLegendz.com http://images.snapfish.com/342%3A%3B...449%3A53ot1lsi INSPIRATION

08-30-02, 02:21 AM	#9 (permalink)
Bread Sleek And Low Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Redmond, WA Posts: 251 Car 1: 1992 Black Sedan LS iTrader: (0)	You are correct ikata, Springs control ride-height, shocks and struts control the movement. If your car is sagging then the springs are worn. If your car bounces too much then the struts/shocks are bad. The koni struts are fully adjustable for ride stiffness, but are a waste of money if you want a stock ride. They are designed to be used in conjunction with lowering springs because their spring-rate requires more aggressive dampening. For example, a car that's been dropped with 1.75" drop springs will bounce too much with a stock strut. A stiffer strut setting will calm the bounce. The setup together will provide a stiffer ride. That's the compromise. Lower=better looks (IMO), better handeling, and a firm to harsh ride depending on how extreme the drop. The Eibach spring has the least amount of drop (1.1") out of the aftermarket spring bunch. The ride is "sporty" compared to stock, but not harsh. You could run an Eibach spring with stock struts. But since your only concern is the ride-height being too low already, you can purchase hard rubber spacers from the dealership to shim up the sagging springs. Much cheaper than replacing a stock spring with another stock spring. __________________ +++Yellow Ducati 996+++ +++1971 Scout II+++ +++2001 BMW 750iL Sport+++ +++1986 BMW 325+++

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08-29-02, 07:51 PM	#4 (permalink)
Cresap legend fana*** Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Woodinville, WA Posts: 210 Car 1: 1991 black on black coupe iTrader: (0)	so what is the cost difference between using oem shocks and springs vs. aftermarket, I'm thinking about doing the same thing. My legend is 11 years old and I know the suspension is not what it used to be.

08-30-02, 01:25 AM	#7 (permalink)
91LegendCoupe Banned Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: California Posts: 1,976 iTrader: (1)	let's just say I wanna even it out. If sagging is the case, what would be the cause of it? bad shocks or bad springs? You see, I don't really wanna drop it right now. It looks good just the way it is. I just wanna isolate the problem (whether it be the strut or spring) and replace the strut or spring. I don't want to have to replace both the strut and springs when I only need to replace the struts.

08-30-02, 02:03 AM	#8 (permalink)
ikata Registered User Join Date: May 2002 Location: Providence, RI Posts: 411 Car 1: 1991LS Sedan Car 2: 89 CRX Si iTrader: (1)	Thanks LeoLegendATL! Do the koni's or eibachs preserve the luxury ride of the car though? I don't really want to go the performance route with the Legend (I do that with my CRX ) The Legend I just want to keep in good shape. 91LegendCoupe, I am pretty sure the sagging is due to bad springs. Bad shocks would create dinamic problems (when the suspension is in motion: wabling ride, understeer etc). Somebody correct me if I am wrong, please!

08-30-02, 04:51 AM	#10 (permalink)
ikata Registered User Join Date: May 2002 Location: Providence, RI Posts: 411 Car 1: 1991LS Sedan Car 2: 89 CRX Si iTrader: (1)	Hmmmmmm. VERY pleased to hear of those hard rubber spacers, Bread!!! Is this a standard treatment for aging springs (i.e. would the dealer know what I am talking about) or is this something that you guys have figured out on your own and the dealer happens to carry them. I assume, since it was already mentioned that replacing the springs is a do-it-yourselfer, that I can do the rubber spacers as well, correct? Now here is a good weekend project... I would love to get the rear of the car a little higher as it seems it was intended to be. Thanks for the good info!

08-30-02, 08:37 AM	#11 (permalink)
502 MotorSports 502MotorSports.com Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: ATLVILLE Posts: 9,445 Car 1: e39 540i Car 2: e46 325xi \| e46 330i Car 3: S430 iTrader: (0)	In additiono to what Bread said, you can actually get those rubber spacers from your local Pep-BOys, Advance or Auto Zone for like $4-$5. Mount them in the same position on each coil...i.e. coil 1, coil 2 coil 3 each have one at 3 o'clock, and then another 3 at 9 o'clock. I hope you get the gist of what I am saying...if you can imagine your spring here -----> [] 3 o'clock is the right, 9 o'clock is the left side. You do this on both sides of the car, which means you need a total of 3 packs of spacers (4 per pack). Good luck __________________ The Hotness! Elevate Your Standards.... Legend Mod Money! Jasmyn \| Final e39 Pics \| 502MotorSports MySpace

08-30-02, 12:28 PM	#12 (permalink)
CakeDaddy Banned Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: South West area ABQ,DAL,LasVeg Posts: 2,314 iTrader: (1)	HMM, do those spacers ruin the allignment or throw the camber off any? Just curious

08-30-02, 02:03 PM	#14 (permalink)
91LegendCoupe Banned Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: California Posts: 1,976 iTrader: (1)	ok guys, I'm getting mixed info. one guy says it's the strut that's causing the sag and another guys says it's the springs. which is it?

08-30-02, 02:20 PM	#15 (permalink)
Bread Sleek And Low Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Redmond, WA Posts: 251 Car 1: 1992 Black Sedan LS iTrader: (0)	CakeDaddy is referring to the fact that the Koni struts have an adjustable spring perch mount. There are three notches cut into the strut where you can adjust the ride-height by about an inch up or down. This is not the option for you because as I mentioned earlier, Koni struts are a waste of money if you're looking for a stock ride, and that notch will lift the car much higher than you want to go. Forget this option. Leon, the spacers at the auto parts store are not the ones I'm talking about. Those Pep Boys spacers are wedged in-between the springs and could potentially fall out when going over large bumps. The spacers I'm referring to are rubber rings that are the diameter of the spring. You pull the strut apart, remove the cap and place the spacer on top of the entire spring, then put it back together. I originally purchased these from a Chevy dealer for my S-10. The factory had stamped the control arm a bit off on one side causing it to sit un-even, so this spacer was the fix for it. The ring looked like it was cut out of an old tire-tread. __________________ +++Yellow Ducati 996+++ +++1971 Scout II+++ +++2001 BMW 750iL Sport+++ +++1986 BMW 325+++

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