README: Corner Balancing and Alignment

mrkeith · 05-04-07, 02:34 AM

Dear Every Coil-Over-Driving Legend Owner--
You should corner-balance your Legend; otherwise you're not taking advantage of what your coil-overs were designed to do. Lowering is only a side effect, or perk, of installing coil-overs.

On with it! Believe me when I write that my Legend is difficult to align--so difficult that I've been turned away from a couple shops (including the dealership). Without a doubt, West End Alignment in Gardina, CA offers alignment and corner-balancing perfection, even for meticulous folks like myself. The guy is a suspension genius; he asks the right questions; his advice is solid. These words cannot describe how satisfied I am, or how my face hurts from grinning the entire two-hour drive home. For once, my Legend is as it should have been. It feels super agile and nimble on its toes.

The Legend about to be corner balanced:

My corner balance results:

The guy moved ~75lbs. of weight off the driver's front wheel, which roughly equates to removing a 400lb. guy out of the driver's seat. As you can see from the results above, relocating the battery to the passenger rear of the car (directly above the wheel) should almost perfectly left/right balance the coupe with me sitting in it.

My alignment is a perfect 1.5 degree camber on both front tires with 4.5 degrees caster and no toe (zero). Both rear tires are running 1.25 degrees of negative camber and 1/16 inches of toe in. I think this is a perfect track setup for a Legend. If you do not track your Legend, or drive aggressively, then run much less camber or you'll be roasting tires!

I wish that you guys could drive the before and after. If you have any questions about corner balancing or alignments, please ask. I can hopefully help. If you would like to schedule an appointment with West End, see below. I cannot recommend them high enough!

18008 S Vermont Ave
Gardena, CA 90248
(310) 808-9233

See you all at the Nationals tomorrow!

Cheers,
Keith

P.S.
Both the alignment and corner-balancing were done with me sitting in the car the entire time.

kotetu · 05-04-07, 02:38 AM

cost? I'll have to get this done after I get the ksports in. Too bad they are not already in!

mrkeith · 05-04-07, 02:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kotetu

cost? I'll have to get this done after I get the ksports in. Too bad they are not already in!

You had better be there in the TT tomorrow, or else!

He spent about 3.5/4 hours with me and the cost was $215.

k.

Disclaimer:
If anybody thinks to chime in with babble about $215 being a ripoff because mechanics should work for free, then I hope somebody e-punches you in the face for being an asshat.

kotetu · 05-04-07, 02:51 AM

$215 for a well aligned car is a good investment.

I notice you're still on those big heavy wheels! Nothing lighter/smaller for the track? I guess you have to have something pretty big to fit over those brakes though.

3565 with you in the car huh? sounds pretty light. did you pull out 160 pounds of stuff? like the rear seat and the contents of the trunk? I know the coupe weighs in a bit over 3500 from the factory, and I thought the autos weigh more than the manuals. I'm guessing you weigh about 160 or so, putting your coupe right at 3400 pounds. Were you on a half tank of gas?

edit: I forgot about that carbon fiber hood - how much does it save, I wonder?

GreekPower · 05-04-07, 03:09 AM

wow i would so do that if someone did it here locally. i no with my ksports my car tends to "float" on the road i would love to have it feel "stickier"

kotetu · 05-04-07, 03:27 AM

I punched it up in Excel - ideally you want to move exactly 46 pounds from the front driver corner to the rear passenger corner. The stock battery weighs about 37 1/2 pounds.

The only other things I can think of in that corner are the battery tray and the windshield washer reservoir. If you pull those out you could be getting close to the perfect number.

Code:

relocatable weight					
46					
		1070	1068		
		714	713		
DC	1782			1783	PC
	50.0%			50.0%	

	F	2138	60.0%		
	R	1427	40.0%		


		1784	1781		
		50.0%	50.0%		
		L	R

another thing to consider is how much the extra wiring will weigh - I guess it would throw off the calculation a bit.

KINGFABIAN · 05-04-07, 06:46 AM

If I had access to him , Id be there in a heartbeat. Around my parts Im lucky to even find someone that will do alignment on lowriders period.

kotetu · 05-04-07, 12:55 PM

I really wish I could make it - as of right now I have an appt to take my car in so I can start the process of fixing it.

Anyway, on further experimentation, Keith, I discovered that if you added 14 50 pound bags of rice to your trunk, you'd acheive truely prefect weight distribution: 50/50 front-rear, side-to-side, and corner. of course your car would also weigh 4275 pounds.

Code:

relocatable weight	ballast l/r rear	Total weight w/driver
47			355			4275
					
		1069	1068		
		1069	1069		
DC	2137			2138	PC
	50.0%			50.0%	

	F	2137	50.0%		
	R	2138	50.0%		


		2138	2137		
		50.0%	50.0%		
		L	R

*Thai.95LCoupe* · 05-04-07, 01:36 PM

Word. An aligned auto period will do wonders on crisper handling. If anyone in Atlanta area wants corner balance alignment let me know. The shop I go to does an awsome job.

drewLegend · 05-05-07, 04:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thai.95LCoupe

Word. An aligned auto period will do wonders on crisper handling. If anyone in Atlanta area wants corner balance alignment let me know. The shop I go to does an awsome job.

I'll be hitting you up about that ATL area shop once I get my Ksports installed and have some extra $.

**502 MotorSports** · 05-06-07, 10:59 PM

that's whats up

even distro for the win

FF Drifter · 05-11-07, 02:49 PM

Keith, just curious as to how you moved your battery to the trunk. I've been considering some weight-balancing for a while now but I'm still not sure as to how great the benefit is (esp. since I have yet to see track action in my Legend and the closest thing so far is local twisties). But of course, I'm interested in maximizing my car's handling potential =)

Also, is this something that can be done only with height-adjustable coilovers? My suspension adjusts damper levels only =/

mrkeith · 05-11-07, 04:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FF Drifter

Keith, just curious as to how you moved your battery to the trunk. I've been considering some weight-balancing for a while now but I'm still not sure as to how great the benefit is (esp. since I have yet to see track action in my Legend and the closest thing so far is local twisties). But of course, I'm interested in maximizing my car's handling potential =)

Also, is this something that can be done only with height-adjustable coilovers? My suspension adjusts damper levels only =/

Ohhh, you won't be able to sensibly corner-balance your car without adjustable spring rates.

There are battery relocation kits for purchase online, but you should ask DV8 or anybody who's relocated theirs. I haven't started mine, yet. Let us know what you find out! I'm thinking that we could remove the storage container on the right and stuff a smallish battery there.

k.

JonnyBlaze · 05-11-07, 04:05 PM

There is a detailed article about corner balancing in the latest Modified Magazine. http://www.modified.com/

SickRick · 05-11-07, 04:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thai.95LCoupe View Post
Word. An aligned auto period will do wonders on crisper handling. If anyone in Atlanta area wants corner balance alignment let me know. The shop I go to does an awsome job.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coilover Boy

I'll be hitting you up about that ATL area shop once I get my Ksports installed and have some extra $.

Yeah, +1....where are you at?

05-04-07, 02:34 AM	#1 (permalink)
mrkeith dealer-opted track pack Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: look behind you Posts: 3,507 Car 1: ka8 Car 2: chevro-legs iTrader: (2)	README: Corner Balancing and Alignment Dear Every Coil-Over-Driving Legend Owner-- You should corner-balance your Legend; otherwise you're not taking advantage of what your coil-overs were designed to do. Lowering is only a side effect, or perk, of installing coil-overs. On with it! Believe me when I write that my Legend is difficult to align--so difficult that I've been turned away from a couple shops (including the dealership). Without a doubt, West End Alignment in Gardina, CA offers alignment and corner-balancing perfection, even for meticulous folks like myself. The guy is a suspension genius; he asks the right questions; his advice is solid. These words cannot describe how satisfied I am, or how my face hurts from grinning the entire two-hour drive home. For once, my Legend is as it should have been. It feels super agile and nimble on its toes. The Legend about to be corner balanced: My corner balance results: The guy moved ~75lbs. of weight off the driver's front wheel, which roughly equates to removing a 400lb. guy out of the driver's seat. As you can see from the results above, relocating the battery to the passenger rear of the car (directly above the wheel) should almost perfectly left/right balance the coupe with me sitting in it. My alignment is a perfect 1.5 degree camber on both front tires with 4.5 degrees caster and no toe (zero). Both rear tires are running 1.25 degrees of negative camber and 1/16 inches of toe in. I think this is a perfect track setup for a Legend. If you do not track your Legend, or drive aggressively, then run much less camber or you'll be roasting tires! I wish that you guys could drive the before and after. If you have any questions about corner balancing or alignments, please ask. I can hopefully help. If you would like to schedule an appointment with West End, see below. I cannot recommend them high enough! 18008 S Vermont Ave Gardena, CA 90248 (310) 808-9233 See you all at the Nationals tomorrow! Cheers, Keith P.S. Both the alignment and corner-balancing were done with me sitting in the car the entire time. __________________ The performance handling machine... If you've got coil-overs, corner-balance them! Please protect our environment: use a high-flow.

05-04-07, 02:38 AM	#2 (permalink)
kotetu Yo pedo en su dirección. Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 3,001 Car 1: 95 LS Coupe 6spd Car 2: 94 L Cpe 6spd - sold Car 3: 98 Prelude - sold iTrader: (12)	cost? I'll have to get this done after I get the ksports in. Too bad they are not already in! __________________ 1995 Acura Legend LS Coupe 6 speed NSX seats - JDM Headlights - OEM Fogs - MLS Copy strut bar - Legend specific Tie bars - Addco F&R Sways - KSport suspension - Sr5Guy Stage 2 Chip - RangerJoe Short shifter - Aluminum Pulleys - Injen intake - Stromung 2.5 inch cat-back - S2000 Battery Coming soon to a theater near you... 2005 RL BBK - Upgraded Final drive and LSD - Custom header - Cams - adjustable ball joints - adjustable end links

05-04-07, 02:51 AM	#4 (permalink)
kotetu Yo pedo en su dirección. Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 3,001 Car 1: 95 LS Coupe 6spd Car 2: 94 L Cpe 6spd - sold Car 3: 98 Prelude - sold iTrader: (12)	$215 for a well aligned car is a good investment. I notice you're still on those big heavy wheels! Nothing lighter/smaller for the track? I guess you have to have something pretty big to fit over those brakes though. 3565 with you in the car huh? sounds pretty light. did you pull out 160 pounds of stuff? like the rear seat and the contents of the trunk? I know the coupe weighs in a bit over 3500 from the factory, and I thought the autos weigh more than the manuals. I'm guessing you weigh about 160 or so, putting your coupe right at 3400 pounds. Were you on a half tank of gas? edit: I forgot about that carbon fiber hood - how much does it save, I wonder? __________________ 1995 Acura Legend LS Coupe 6 speed NSX seats - JDM Headlights - OEM Fogs - MLS Copy strut bar - Legend specific Tie bars - Addco F&R Sways - KSport suspension - Sr5Guy Stage 2 Chip - RangerJoe Short shifter - Aluminum Pulleys - Injen intake - Stromung 2.5 inch cat-back - S2000 Battery Coming soon to a theater near you... 2005 RL BBK - Upgraded Final drive and LSD - Custom header - Cams - adjustable ball joints - adjustable end links Last edited by kotetu : 05-04-07 at 01:13 PM.

05-04-07, 03:27 AM	#6 (permalink)
kotetu Yo pedo en su dirección. Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 3,001 Car 1: 95 LS Coupe 6spd Car 2: 94 L Cpe 6spd - sold Car 3: 98 Prelude - sold iTrader: (12)	I punched it up in Excel - ideally you want to move exactly 46 pounds from the front driver corner to the rear passenger corner. The stock battery weighs about 37 1/2 pounds. The only other things I can think of in that corner are the battery tray and the windshield washer reservoir. If you pull those out you could be getting close to the perfect number. Code: relocatable weight 46 1070 1068 714 713 DC 1782 1783 PC 50.0% 50.0% F 2138 60.0% R 1427 40.0% 1784 1781 50.0% 50.0% L R another thing to consider is how much the extra wiring will weigh - I guess it would throw off the calculation a bit. __________________ 1995 Acura Legend LS Coupe 6 speed NSX seats - JDM Headlights - OEM Fogs - MLS Copy strut bar - Legend specific Tie bars - Addco F&R Sways - KSport suspension - Sr5Guy Stage 2 Chip - RangerJoe Short shifter - Aluminum Pulleys - Injen intake - Stromung 2.5 inch cat-back - S2000 Battery Coming soon to a theater near you... 2005 RL BBK - Upgraded Final drive and LSD - Custom header - Cams - adjustable ball joints - adjustable end links

05-04-07, 06:46 AM	#7 (permalink)
KINGFABIAN MAN-WHORE Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: FLORIDA Posts: 2,062 Car 1: 1994 Legend Sedan L 2005 Infiniti QX56 iTrader: (0)	If I had access to him , Id be there in a heartbeat. Around my parts Im lucky to even find someone that will do alignment on lowriders period. __________________ King of the Bling & Lord of the Blang!

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05-04-07, 03:09 AM	#5 (permalink)
GreekPower Banned Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Pittsburgh,PA Posts: 10,458 Car 1: 1992 Acura L"S" Sedan Car 2: 1991 3/S Turbo's 2x Car 3: 2005 Grand Prix iTrader: (13)	wow i would so do that if someone did it here locally. i no with my ksports my car tends to "float" on the road i would love to have it feel "stickier"

05-04-07, 12:55 PM	#8 (permalink)
kotetu Yo pedo en su dirección. Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 3,001 Car 1: 95 LS Coupe 6spd Car 2: 94 L Cpe 6spd - sold Car 3: 98 Prelude - sold iTrader: (12)	I really wish I could make it - as of right now I have an appt to take my car in so I can start the process of fixing it. Anyway, on further experimentation, Keith, I discovered that if you added 14 50 pound bags of rice to your trunk, you'd acheive truely prefect weight distribution: 50/50 front-rear, side-to-side, and corner. of course your car would also weigh 4275 pounds. Code: relocatable weight ballast l/r rear Total weight w/driver 47 355 4275 1069 1068 1069 1069 DC 2137 2138 PC 50.0% 50.0% F 2137 50.0% R 2138 50.0% 2138 2137 50.0% 50.0% L R __________________ 1995 Acura Legend LS Coupe 6 speed NSX seats - JDM Headlights - OEM Fogs - MLS Copy strut bar - Legend specific Tie bars - Addco F&R Sways - KSport suspension - Sr5Guy Stage 2 Chip - RangerJoe Short shifter - Aluminum Pulleys - Injen intake - Stromung 2.5 inch cat-back - S2000 Battery Coming soon to a theater near you... 2005 RL BBK - Upgraded Final drive and LSD - Custom header - Cams - adjustable ball joints - adjustable end links Last edited by kotetu : 05-04-07 at 01:11 PM.

05-04-07, 01:36 PM	#9 (permalink)
Thai.95LCoupe K L E A N M O D™ Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Roswell, Georgia Posts: 5,341 Car 1: 1995 KA8 R.I.P Car 2: 1997 S14 SOLD Car 3: Millenia S & S14 iTrader: (6)	Word. An aligned auto period will do wonders on crisper handling. If anyone in Atlanta area wants corner balance alignment let me know. The shop I go to does an awsome job. __________________ -1995 KA8 MODIFIED-R.I.P -1997 S14a-SOLD -2000 Millenia S -1995.8 S14a -Holy Rollerz CCC Member- -Inspiration™- My KA8's totaled and still greater than.... Imitatated. Never duplicated.™

05-06-07, 10:59 PM	#11 (permalink)
502 MotorSports 502MotorSports.com Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Louisville, KY Posts: 9,354 Car 1: F.I. e39 540i Car 2: F.I. e46 325xi Car 3: e46 330i iTrader: (0)	that's whats up even distro for the win __________________ The Hotness! Elevate Your Standards.... Legend Mod Money! Jasmyn \| 502MS Project e39 \| 502MotorSports MySpace

05-11-07, 02:49 PM	#12 (permalink)
FF Drifter Yuka.Blue. Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: La Jolla, CA Posts: 2,723 Car 1: KA7 Legend sedan, 5 speed manual iTrader: (1)	Keith, just curious as to how you moved your battery to the trunk. I've been considering some weight-balancing for a while now but I'm still not sure as to how great the benefit is (esp. since I have yet to see track action in my Legend and the closest thing so far is local twisties). But of course, I'm interested in maximizing my car's handling potential =) Also, is this something that can be done only with height-adjustable coilovers? My suspension adjusts damper levels only =/ __________________ -8000K HID low-beams/PIAA Spark 8000 high-beams/PIAA Plasma GT-X corners -Type II brakes/some weight reduction/new tires every 4-6 months -NA1 NSX wheels: Kumho Ecsta SPT 225/50V-16R in front, Kumho Ecsta ASX 205/60V-15R in rear -Custom built six-puck kevlar clutch/Lightened (aluminum) pulleys -[Mugen/Showa] suspension with remote-adjustable dampers -C35A1/C32A1 hybrid swap; smog legal (by GreenLight Auto)

05-11-07, 04:05 PM	#14 (permalink)
JonnyBlaze Lejen - on cardomain.com Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Houston Posts: 266 Car 1: 1993 Acura Legend Car 2: 1991 CRX iTrader: (0)	There is a detailed article about corner balancing in the latest Modified Magazine. http://www.modified.com/ __________________ http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2535267 Welcome to the revolution, the movement moves on DIPSET!

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