Short Ram vS Cold Air ???

_mAv_ · 07-13-04, 08:22 PM

Ok so I was going to upgrade my OEM air box to a short ram with a K&N filter until a friend of mine told me to do a Cold Air Intake instead. I couldn't get a good explaination other than Cold Air produces more power and Short Ram can get hella hot

I'm sure this has been covered in other posts, but I couldn't find anything specific enough to answer the questions. Any input would be great.

cjudkins · 07-13-04, 10:23 PM

The CAI takes air in down below the engine for more effectiveness and the Short Ram is just pulling warm air from your engine bay.

This link will also give you a good idea also of some custom made Cold air intakes by some vet's on this forum.

Cold Air Intake Reviews

_mAv_ · 07-14-04, 06:56 AM

Yah I was able to find that link and checked out some of the custom CAIs. I noticed most performance sites online sell short rams moreso than CAIs. Is there a reason for that? what are the performance differences I'm looking at other than different methods of air intake between the two options? thanx

tnelson · 07-14-04, 09:29 AM

a cold air can suck up water if you drive into a puddle. Most shops dont want to take the liability of you destroying your engine, so they dont sell them. phil and i saw like 5 more hp and 12 more torque, and a lot more area under both curves(lots of acceleration, for those who understand integrals). a short ram is safer, but it will produce less horsepower. If you live somewhere where you dont get much rain, a cold air is the best thing you can get. if you live somewhere it rains a lot. do a short ram. or if you go to the track, you can just cut your cold air and make it a short ram with a rubber sleeve to adapt it to a cold air when you want to.

Blood Riot · 07-14-04, 10:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tnelson

or if you go to the track, you can just cut your cold air and make it a short ram with a rubber sleeve to adapt it to a cold air when you want to.

To do this, do you have to go to track? and if not... how do I do that?
if you have a link to a DIY I will be very grateful if you gave it to me!

_mAv_ · 07-14-04, 01:14 PM

Well I don't go to the tracks, at the same time, here in San Jose, its usually sunny but will rain during the seasons. Rain is never really that hard or usually won't last more than a day or two. How likely is it to take in water during the rain? and if it does, what kind of damages am I looking at? My Legend is my primary vehicle, so garaging it to avoid the rain isn't an option. Well, maybe it is, but I love to drive in the rain, so no, it really isn't

cjudkins · 07-15-04, 12:50 AM

Nobody that I have heard of with CAI setups have had trouble with water. From what I heard that was a problem when cai's became more mainstream, but I beleive that really isn't a problem anymore.
Unless the streets are flooding, I wouldn't worry about it too much

Quote:

Originally Posted by _mAv_

Well I don't go to the tracks, at the same time, here in San Jose, its usually sunny but will rain during the seasons. Rain is never really that hard or usually won't last more than a day or two. How likely is it to take in water during the rain? and if it does, what kind of damages am I looking at? My Legend is my primary vehicle, so garaging it to avoid the rain isn't an option. Well, maybe it is, but I love to drive in the rain, so no, it really isn't

_mAv_ · 07-15-04, 06:35 AM

Awesome. Are there any particular brands / manufacturers of CAIs you guys would recommend?

HQuakers · 07-15-04, 07:57 AM

My buddy has a CAI in his jetta and he went through a flooded part of the road and fawked up his engine. I wouldn't worry too much about water with a CAI...but if you wanna be safe, get an AIR bypass valve..problem solved.

_mAv_ · 07-15-04, 08:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HQuakers

My buddy has a CAI in his jetta and he went through a flooded part of the road and fawked up his engine. I wouldn't worry too much about water with a CAI...but if you wanna be safe, get an AIR bypass valve..problem solved.

You'll have to bare with me as I'm not completely down with all the techincal stuff, least not yet. Whats the AIR bypass valve going to do? from what I understand, the filter will the the thing thats sitting low right? so hitting the puddle or deep enough water will send water through the filter and up the intake no?

skate4ever999 · 07-15-04, 09:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HQuakers

My buddy has a CAI in his jetta and he went through a flooded part of the road and fawked up his engine. I wouldn't worry too much about water with a CAI...but if you wanna be safe, get an AIR bypass valve..problem solved.

yeah that happend to my friend, in his 2004 honda civic. he threw 3 rods, had to replace the motor

tnelson · 07-15-04, 10:57 AM

ok, to explain. The filter goes on the end of the cold air intake. its basically a pipe with a rubber adapter to fit it onto the throttle body. anyway. if water gets sucked into an intake, it will flow into the cylinders, and liquids do not compress like gasses. the concept of a modern combustion engine is that air and gasoline vapors are pushed into the cylinder, compressed, and then combusted. when water gets in, the piston will not compress the liquid, but the crankshaft is still pushing the pistion and the rod upward at a very high velocity, this puts a lot of pressure on the rods and they either bend or break. if they bend, occasionally the engine can be rebuilt and salvaged. if they break,99 percent of the time the rods blow through the block and the pistons destroy the valves, yeilding the entire engine virtually useless.

a bypass valve will allow the water to flow out and air to flow in if the pressure is too great on the opposite end of the filter. so if water gets in the filter, it wont get sucked up, instead the bypass will open.

skate4ever999 · 07-15-04, 11:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tnelson

ok, to explain. The filter goes on the end of the cold air intake. its basically a pipe with a rubber adapter to fit it onto the throttle body. anyway. if water gets sucked into an intake, it will flow into the cylinders, and liquids do not compress like gasses. the concept of a modern combustion engine is that air and gasoline vapors are pushed into the cylinder, compressed, and then combusted. when water gets in, the piston will not compress the liquid, but the crankshaft is still pushing the pistion and the rod upward at a very high velocity, this puts a lot of pressure on the rods and they either bend or break. if they bend, occasionally the engine can be rebuilt and salvaged. if they break,99 percent of the time the rods blow through the block and the pistons destroy the valves, yeilding the entire engine virtually useless.

a bypass valve will allow the water to flow out and air to flow in if the pressure is too great on the opposite end of the filter. so if water gets in the filter, it wont get sucked up, instead the bypass will open.

in order for that to happen you need to suck in a lot of water

Lost1 · 07-15-04, 12:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by skate4ever999

in order for that to happen you need to suck in a lot of water

it doesnt take a lot of water to activate a bypass valve, but most people dont use one. and get a smaller signature picture. that is retarded huge.

for all of you who want a cold air with a rubber adaptor, talk to christian or phillip and buy one and have them cut it for you so you can go between a short ram and a cold air when you want to. only thing is, you have to jack the car up to change it from cold air to regular, or at least i do on mine, so its a pain in the ass. just pick one that works for you.

i have driven in streets that had plenty of water, i just had my cold air cut off real high so that it wont suck water unless i am at least 8 inches deep. and my car rides the ground.

HQuakers · 07-15-04, 02:20 PM

Yeah, you guys are correct. Thanks for clarifying because I didnt really feel like writing a lot. The only way you will run into water getting in the engine is if you drive slowly through a flooded area...the intake will act like a vacuum and suck the water into the cylinder = very bad. The bypass valve will relase the pressure in the tube in the event that water tries to get sucked in. Your engine will use the valve as it's primary source of air until you are no longer trying to take up water. I used a bypass valve just in case...you never know around my ways, especially since we got 15inches of rain the other day..

07-13-04, 08:22 PM	#1 (permalink)
_mAv_ Registered User Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: San Jose, CA Posts: 175 Car 1: 91 Legend Sedan L iTrader: (0)	Short Ram vS Cold Air ??? Ok so I was going to upgrade my OEM air box to a short ram with a K&N filter until a friend of mine told me to do a Cold Air Intake instead. I couldn't get a good explaination other than Cold Air produces more power and Short Ram can get hella hot I'm sure this has been covered in other posts, but I couldn't find anything specific enough to answer the questions. Any input would be great. __________________ Its not the speed that kills you, its the sudden change in speed. JVC KD-SHX700 MP3 CD Receiver

07-13-04, 10:23 PM	#2 (permalink)
cjudkins Registered User Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Montana Posts: 108 Car 1: 1991 Acura Legend iTrader: (0)	The CAI takes air in down below the engine for more effectiveness and the Short Ram is just pulling warm air from your engine bay. This link will also give you a good idea also of some custom made Cold air intakes by some vet's on this forum. Cold Air Intake Reviews __________________ -Chris Just another 1 of the few and the proud Legend owners in the Big Sky Country 1991 4DR Legend L Clear Corners 25% And 35% in the back Coming Soon ... Koni's 17" 5Zigen Copse Rims CAI Remus Exhaust

07-14-04, 06:56 AM	#3 (permalink)
_mAv_ Registered User Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: San Jose, CA Posts: 175 Car 1: 91 Legend Sedan L iTrader: (0)	Yah I was able to find that link and checked out some of the custom CAIs. I noticed most performance sites online sell short rams moreso than CAIs. Is there a reason for that? what are the performance differences I'm looking at other than different methods of air intake between the two options? thanx __________________ Its not the speed that kills you, its the sudden change in speed. JVC KD-SHX700 MP3 CD Receiver

07-14-04, 09:29 AM	#4 (permalink)
tnelson Pedobear is watching you Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Oklahoma Posts: 7,652 Car 1: 2002 TL-S, white Car 2: 1992 Corvette iTrader: (3)	a cold air can suck up water if you drive into a puddle. Most shops dont want to take the liability of you destroying your engine, so they dont sell them. phil and i saw like 5 more hp and 12 more torque, and a lot more area under both curves(lots of acceleration, for those who understand integrals). a short ram is safer, but it will produce less horsepower. If you live somewhere where you dont get much rain, a cold air is the best thing you can get. if you live somewhere it rains a lot. do a short ram. or if you go to the track, you can just cut your cold air and make it a short ram with a rubber sleeve to adapt it to a cold air when you want to. __________________ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=feLqz1udhtY

07-14-04, 01:14 PM	#6 (permalink)
_mAv_ Registered User Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: San Jose, CA Posts: 175 Car 1: 91 Legend Sedan L iTrader: (0)	Well I don't go to the tracks, at the same time, here in San Jose, its usually sunny but will rain during the seasons. Rain is never really that hard or usually won't last more than a day or two. How likely is it to take in water during the rain? and if it does, what kind of damages am I looking at? My Legend is my primary vehicle, so garaging it to avoid the rain isn't an option. Well, maybe it is, but I love to drive in the rain, so no, it really isn't __________________ Its not the speed that kills you, its the sudden change in speed. JVC KD-SHX700 MP3 CD Receiver

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07-15-04, 06:35 AM	#8 (permalink)
_mAv_ Registered User Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: San Jose, CA Posts: 175 Car 1: 91 Legend Sedan L iTrader: (0)	Awesome. Are there any particular brands / manufacturers of CAIs you guys would recommend? __________________ Its not the speed that kills you, its the sudden change in speed. JVC KD-SHX700 MP3 CD Receiver

07-15-04, 07:57 AM	#9 (permalink)
HQuakers Registered User Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: South Jersey Posts: 145 Car 1: 1998 2.5TL iTrader: (0)	My buddy has a CAI in his jetta and he went through a flooded part of the road and fawked up his engine. I wouldn't worry too much about water with a CAI...but if you wanna be safe, get an AIR bypass valve..problem solved.

07-15-04, 10:57 AM	#12 (permalink)
tnelson Pedobear is watching you Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Oklahoma Posts: 7,652 Car 1: 2002 TL-S, white Car 2: 1992 Corvette iTrader: (3)	ok, to explain. The filter goes on the end of the cold air intake. its basically a pipe with a rubber adapter to fit it onto the throttle body. anyway. if water gets sucked into an intake, it will flow into the cylinders, and liquids do not compress like gasses. the concept of a modern combustion engine is that air and gasoline vapors are pushed into the cylinder, compressed, and then combusted. when water gets in, the piston will not compress the liquid, but the crankshaft is still pushing the pistion and the rod upward at a very high velocity, this puts a lot of pressure on the rods and they either bend or break. if they bend, occasionally the engine can be rebuilt and salvaged. if they break,99 percent of the time the rods blow through the block and the pistons destroy the valves, yeilding the entire engine virtually useless. a bypass valve will allow the water to flow out and air to flow in if the pressure is too great on the opposite end of the filter. so if water gets in the filter, it wont get sucked up, instead the bypass will open. __________________ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=feLqz1udhtY

07-15-04, 02:20 PM	#15 (permalink)
HQuakers Registered User Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: South Jersey Posts: 145 Car 1: 1998 2.5TL iTrader: (0)	Yeah, you guys are correct. Thanks for clarifying because I didnt really feel like writing a lot. The only way you will run into water getting in the engine is if you drive slowly through a flooded area...the intake will act like a vacuum and suck the water into the cylinder = very bad. The bypass valve will relase the pressure in the tube in the event that water tries to get sucked in. Your engine will use the valve as it's primary source of air until you are no longer trying to take up water. I used a bypass valve just in case...you never know around my ways, especially since we got 15inches of rain the other day..

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