VIR Track School Update, 94 Coupe LS

hondaman23 · 03-11-05, 06:22 AM

I know that alot of you guys love the drag strip, but I decided that when I bought this New2Me 94 Coupe LS that I would have to get it out on a road course and see how well the Legends compare and also figure out how fast this car really is in the straights and in the turns. I found out. I asked for help a while back when I had just picked the car up. Here is the link to that ---->Need Help w/ KA8 6Sp Track Event Set-up

The things I changed:
-Koni Shocks @ stock ride height w/ stock springs
-Limited Slip Differential
-Rear Sway Bar
-Upgraded the brake pads, slotted rotors, braided lines, all new stock calipers and master cyl
-New Water Pump, Timing Belt and Tensioner
-All coolant hoses
-Added Redline Water wetter
-Redline MTL in trans
-Redline 75-90W LSD Fluid in diff
-Rebuilt Driveshafts

Observation #1 -

Street Tires Suck

I went out on Michelin XGT V4s and chewed them into oblivion. I did drive them home and they hummed the whole way back. I tortured those poor tires though. I pushed them sooooo hard. I had them screaming in pain everywhere except the straights. They would howl around every turn and I drove the car really hard and foot to the floor.

Observation #2 -

LSD (Limited Slip Diff) Works Really Good!
I installed the LSD that I have built and I noticed right away that the mannerisms on the street were very nice and smooth. No problems in a parking lot. Put your foot to the floor on some of the tracks turns and you would get a limited amount of wheel slip but it would pull you through the turns and help you plant the suspension. It was just as my others had done and it really helped out with traction.

Observation #3 - Addco sway bar is sufficient
The car body roll is not bad at all with the Addco bar. It helps putting the nose of the car where you want it, but it also is not so hard that the rear end wants to come around all the time. My first session was in the rain. 20 minutes into the session the course began to dry up. It was still wet but was getting more traction, and what was terrible understeer in the wet turned more neutral. Then it happened! The rear of the car stepped out and I could not wrangle it up in time and I did a full 180 spin and kept it on track. I was so shocked that the car actually turned in that I did not expect the rear of the car to let go. I could say that Michelins suck (& they do) but it was mainly my fault. I did not give it enough throttle when I should have and that is what caused the loop. After everything dried up, I found that the car could be made to lift the rear, but it was very hard to get it to slide. That leads me into.....

Observation #4 -

Koni Shocks are great, but need to be externally adjustable.
I could have turned the shocks up had I had an external knob. The Reds are not designed like that so I set the fronts at full soft and the rears ant 2/5 stiff. That worked really well with the sway bar, but probably could have gone up to 3 or 4/5ths. That would have given me the ability to off-throttle-oversteer. I could do it a little but not enough to suit me. The car was hooked up very though.

Observation #5 - Ferrodo Brakes are Fantastic!!

I put a set on the Front and ran Hawk pads on the rear. The Ferrodos do not dust even half as bad as the hawks and they are incredible for stopping a 3600 lbs car over and over. I never had brake fade, ever. I rode those things very hard. I got the wheels so hot that the center caps fell out on the track since they melted and the clear coat turned a golden color on the wheels!!!

The problem that I had stopping came back to the crappy Michelins. I drove off the track twice (that means I chose to drive off instead of slide off) since I could not stop the car coming off the front straight at 120 mph. The wheels kept locking up since the tires would not hold. Note to self: Get good tires next time. Ferrodo needs to be supported and I will now buy this pad for every track car I have.

Observation #6 - TCS and ABS MUST be disabled.

The system is designed to be invasive for safety and let me tell you, it really is. The TCS would not give me full throttle unless you are going straight. The car has a sufficient amount of power to light-em-up and the driver needs to make the decision on how to modulate the throttle. ABS was disabled during every session by pulling the handbrake up to first click and leave it there while you are driving until it kicks on the ABS light. Easy ways to disable it during the warm-up lap. Take that thing off on the track if you want to stop. Leave it on on the street if you don't know what you are doing. Threashold braking must be learned. Lots of seat time helps out.

It was nice to leave the car fairly stock and go out and thrash some BMW butt. I caught E36 M3s, E46 M3s, AMG S55, and many other makes. I say again though, I was pushing that car to 98% most of the track when someone was not in front of me. There was this poor soul in a M Coupe that just refused to follow a good race line and I caught and passed him 3 to 4 times during the weekend. Poor guy must not have had a good instructor. I know that car is much faster than the Legend! I have been doing this stuff for a while and I have run at VIR before, so I had an advantage on some of these guys but still the Legend held its head up high and shoved its nose under some very fast machinery's butt making them get out of the way. Guys were coming up to me and commenting on the Acura badge catching them in the turns alot, but also catching them on the straights. There was one E36 M3 driver that said that my car was just as fast in the straights because he was trying to keep up with me. In the turns, I flat out walked away. Now if I had had some good tires, those boys would really have been giving me some props!! Remember, I am on streets and most of these boys are on R compound or UHP streets.

Now no one can tell me that Legends are not good for this venue. I never over heated or even saw the needle on the dash flicker. It stayed perfectly in the same spot the whole time. The clutch held up great, but you have to match rotations since the flywheel is soooo heavy. It will lock the wheels up if you dump the clutch in a lower gear. Good clutch though! I hit over 120 mph and it did it effortlessly. It looks and drives exactly as it did before the event except for the crappy tires. Waste of $600 tires, but I learned alot!

If you guys are interested in getting into this type of event, give me a shout. This event was a BMW driving school put on by the Tarheel Chapter of the BMW CCA. Very professional people and good classroom teaching sessions. Mazda driving schools don't hold a candle to the Bimmer boys. Spend the $ and go to the BMW or Porsche schools. You may have many fast cars around you, but that is where you learn the most!!

Off to build my Turbo 86 CRX. This will be the new Solo I car and probably the fastest road course Honda on the East coast, hopefully.

**Mike Diaz** · 03-11-05, 06:39 AM

Wow, it sounds like a great time. I'm going to be doing a few track and auto-x events this year. I'm going to try to learn as much as I can, and then make improvements over the year and see how good I can get.

*Daddymac117* · 03-11-05, 06:41 AM

damn that sounds like so much fun

**Mike Diaz** · 03-11-05, 08:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daddymac117

damn that sounds like so much fun

Nick, you have no idea how much of an adreneline rush it is to do some all out racing. Multiply drag racing times 100 and you might come close to that rush.

gmblack3 · 10-18-05, 01:48 PM

Bringing up an old post here, but what kind of times did you run?

I just picked up a 91 5sp coupe, but I keep telling myself that I'm not going to track this car. I had to let my Z06 go, I had over 30 trackdays on it and the track is what I'm going to miss the most about the car. Hope to be back in another Z06 in a few years.

I love VIR and I have ran there 4 w/e's. Most of those where with viperdays. Got down to a 2:13.1 the last time there. kumho 710s, I love those tires.

sleeprlegendcp · 10-18-05, 09:11 PM

Excelent run! Did you get any footage or pics?

Don't discard Michelins yet. You just have the wrong ones.

I am running bald XGT4s on the autocross. With no ABS they make things fun. Check the videos from the National meet to see our runs in the rain.

Later!
Lee

hondaman23 · 10-19-05, 12:24 AM

They do not allow you to time runs at a BMW drivers school and you can be kicked out if you are found doing so. I don't know and I have no footage on a video camera to even run back through and try a time on the video. I have run with a Z06 at VIR and left them with my Civic on race slicks. I konw that I did not go nearly that fast with the coupe. I loved every minute of it. Just be sure to pick up the Ferrodo brakes for all the corners and you will love the track like I did.

By the way, Michelins and Goodyears suck A$$!!!!! I know, that is what I went to VIR on. Yokohamas will weld the doors on both. Hoosiers are my choice tire, but never M & Gs ever again!!

bboarder711 · 10-19-05, 12:35 AM

DAMN man ur lucky i wish i could go to a track!

go92Legend · 10-19-05, 12:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hondaman23

By the way, Michelins and Goodyears suck A$$!!!!! I know, that is what I went to VIR on. Yokohamas will weld the doors on both. Hoosiers are my choice tire, but never M & Gs ever again!!

Never been on a track, but an autocross course. You should look into Bridgestones. When I switched from Michelin XGTs to Potenza RE930s and now 950s, there was a VERY noticable increase in sidewall stiffness and commensurate improvement in handling. Don't know if the less expensive Fuzions from Bridgestone are similar. Perhaps worth looking into?

gmblack3 · 10-19-05, 02:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hondaman23

They do not allow you to time runs at a BMW drivers school and you can be kicked out if you are found doing so. I don't know and I have no footage on a video camera to even run back through and try a time on the video. I have run with a Z06 at VIR and left them with my Civic on race slicks. I konw that I did not go nearly that fast with the coupe. I loved every minute of it. Just be sure to pick up the Ferrodo brakes for all the corners and you will love the track like I did.

By the way, Michelins and Goodyears suck A$$!!!!! I know, that is what I went to VIR on. Yokohamas will weld the doors on both. Hoosiers are my choice tire, but never M & Gs ever again!!

What do you have done to the civic? What event? You ever run at Road Atlanta?

03-11-05, 06:22 AM	#1 (permalink)
hondaman23 Registered User Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: NC Posts: 431 Car 1: 95 Legend GS (Main Baby in Garage) & 94 LS Cpe 6 Speed (Main Driver & Fun) Car 2: 93 Legend LS 2dr 6sp iTrader: (2)	VIR Track School Update, 94 Coupe LS I know that alot of you guys love the drag strip, but I decided that when I bought this New2Me 94 Coupe LS that I would have to get it out on a road course and see how well the Legends compare and also figure out how fast this car really is in the straights and in the turns. I found out. I asked for help a while back when I had just picked the car up. Here is the link to that ---->Need Help w/ KA8 6Sp Track Event Set-up The things I changed: -Koni Shocks @ stock ride height w/ stock springs -Limited Slip Differential -Rear Sway Bar -Upgraded the brake pads, slotted rotors, braided lines, all new stock calipers and master cyl -New Water Pump, Timing Belt and Tensioner -All coolant hoses -Added Redline Water wetter -Redline MTL in trans -Redline 75-90W LSD Fluid in diff -Rebuilt Driveshafts Observation #1 - Street Tires Suck I went out on Michelin XGT V4s and chewed them into oblivion. I did drive them home and they hummed the whole way back. I tortured those poor tires though. I pushed them sooooo hard. I had them screaming in pain everywhere except the straights. They would howl around every turn and I drove the car really hard and foot to the floor. Observation #2 - LSD (Limited Slip Diff) Works Really Good! I installed the LSD that I have built and I noticed right away that the mannerisms on the street were very nice and smooth. No problems in a parking lot. Put your foot to the floor on some of the tracks turns and you would get a limited amount of wheel slip but it would pull you through the turns and help you plant the suspension. It was just as my others had done and it really helped out with traction. Observation #3 - Addco sway bar is sufficient The car body roll is not bad at all with the Addco bar. It helps putting the nose of the car where you want it, but it also is not so hard that the rear end wants to come around all the time. My first session was in the rain. 20 minutes into the session the course began to dry up. It was still wet but was getting more traction, and what was terrible understeer in the wet turned more neutral. Then it happened! The rear of the car stepped out and I could not wrangle it up in time and I did a full 180 spin and kept it on track. I was so shocked that the car actually turned in that I did not expect the rear of the car to let go. I could say that Michelins suck (& they do) but it was mainly my fault. I did not give it enough throttle when I should have and that is what caused the loop. After everything dried up, I found that the car could be made to lift the rear, but it was very hard to get it to slide. That leads me into..... Observation #4 - Koni Shocks are great, but need to be externally adjustable. I could have turned the shocks up had I had an external knob. The Reds are not designed like that so I set the fronts at full soft and the rears ant 2/5 stiff. That worked really well with the sway bar, but probably could have gone up to 3 or 4/5ths. That would have given me the ability to off-throttle-oversteer. I could do it a little but not enough to suit me. The car was hooked up very though. Observation #5 - Ferrodo Brakes are Fantastic!! I put a set on the Front and ran Hawk pads on the rear. The Ferrodos do not dust even half as bad as the hawks and they are incredible for stopping a 3600 lbs car over and over. I never had brake fade, ever. I rode those things very hard. I got the wheels so hot that the center caps fell out on the track since they melted and the clear coat turned a golden color on the wheels!!! The problem that I had stopping came back to the crappy Michelins. I drove off the track twice (that means I chose to drive off instead of slide off) since I could not stop the car coming off the front straight at 120 mph. The wheels kept locking up since the tires would not hold. Note to self: Get good tires next time. Ferrodo needs to be supported and I will now buy this pad for every track car I have. Observation #6 - TCS and ABS MUST be disabled. The system is designed to be invasive for safety and let me tell you, it really is. The TCS would not give me full throttle unless you are going straight. The car has a sufficient amount of power to light-em-up and the driver needs to make the decision on how to modulate the throttle. ABS was disabled during every session by pulling the handbrake up to first click and leave it there while you are driving until it kicks on the ABS light. Easy ways to disable it during the warm-up lap. Take that thing off on the track if you want to stop. Leave it on on the street if you don't know what you are doing. Threashold braking must be learned. Lots of seat time helps out. It was nice to leave the car fairly stock and go out and thrash some BMW butt. I caught E36 M3s, E46 M3s, AMG S55, and many other makes. I say again though, I was pushing that car to 98% most of the track when someone was not in front of me. There was this poor soul in a M Coupe that just refused to follow a good race line and I caught and passed him 3 to 4 times during the weekend. Poor guy must not have had a good instructor. I know that car is much faster than the Legend! I have been doing this stuff for a while and I have run at VIR before, so I had an advantage on some of these guys but still the Legend held its head up high and shoved its nose under some very fast machinery's butt making them get out of the way. Guys were coming up to me and commenting on the Acura badge catching them in the turns alot, but also catching them on the straights. There was one E36 M3 driver that said that my car was just as fast in the straights because he was trying to keep up with me. In the turns, I flat out walked away. Now if I had had some good tires, those boys would really have been giving me some props!! Remember, I am on streets and most of these boys are on R compound or UHP streets. Now no one can tell me that Legends are not good for this venue. I never over heated or even saw the needle on the dash flicker. It stayed perfectly in the same spot the whole time. The clutch held up great, but you have to match rotations since the flywheel is soooo heavy. It will lock the wheels up if you dump the clutch in a lower gear. Good clutch though! I hit over 120 mph and it did it effortlessly. It looks and drives exactly as it did before the event except for the crappy tires. Waste of $600 tires, but I learned alot! If you guys are interested in getting into this type of event, give me a shout. This event was a BMW driving school put on by the Tarheel Chapter of the BMW CCA. Very professional people and good classroom teaching sessions. Mazda driving schools don't hold a candle to the Bimmer boys. Spend the $ and go to the BMW or Porsche schools. You may have many fast cars around you, but that is where you learn the most!! Off to build my Turbo 86 CRX. This will be the new Solo I car and probably the fastest road course Honda on the East coast, hopefully. __________________ I'm the one with the Limited Slip Differentials (LSD). We can build what you need!Users of LSDs: Newest Customer - sr79labrat Third - Me!! Second Customer - Kenso First Customer - LEgEnD4LiFe 95 Legend GS w/Koni shocks, all else stock 94 Legend LS Cpe 6-Speed w/Konis, Race Brakes, braided lines, AND the 3rd LSD built by us but the first to be installed!!!!! New - 86 CRX w/D16A Conversion Now with TURBO!!

03-11-05, 06:39 AM	#2 (permalink)
Mike Diaz WHAAAAAH! Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: N Canton, Ohio Posts: 10,987 Car 1: 3.5L 1991 LS Coupe 5 Spd Blk/Blk Car 2: 1994 Civic EG Hatch Car 3: 03 Honda TRX400EX iTrader: (2)	Wow, it sounds like a great time. I'm going to be doing a few track and auto-x events this year. I'm going to try to learn as much as I can, and then make improvements over the year and see how good I can get. __________________ 2nd Gen FAQ \| Newbie FAQ \| Bleeding Coolant DIY \| Manual Trans Flush DIY 3.5L DIY \| Crank-No Start Diagnosis \| How I built My Legend

03-11-05, 06:41 AM	#3 (permalink)
Daddymac117 TSX pupils Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Hillside, NJ Posts: 9,526 Car 1: 1995 Legend GS iTrader: (4)	damn that sounds like so much fun __________________ 2nd Generation FAQ \| Forum Rules \| Newbie FAQ \| A-L.com Wiki FS: Weapon R Secret Weapon intake (NON TCS/Type I) in box, never used. $140 shipped. I'll make a thread once i figure out the best way to ship it, but PM if interested.

10-18-05, 09:11 PM	#6 (permalink)
sleeprlegendcp Registered User Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: . Posts: 10,099 Car 1: . iTrader: (0)	Excelent run! Did you get any footage or pics? Don't discard Michelins yet. You just have the wrong ones. I am running bald XGT4s on the autocross. With no ABS they make things fun. Check the videos from the National meet to see our runs in the rain. Later! Lee __________________ National Acura Legend Meet 2008 - 4th of July - Chattanooga, TN - Click Here!

10-19-05, 12:24 AM	#7 (permalink)
hondaman23 Registered User Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: NC Posts: 431 Car 1: 95 Legend GS (Main Baby in Garage) & 94 LS Cpe 6 Speed (Main Driver & Fun) Car 2: 93 Legend LS 2dr 6sp iTrader: (2)	Remember, this is a 3600 lbs. Luxo Car They do not allow you to time runs at a BMW drivers school and you can be kicked out if you are found doing so. I don't know and I have no footage on a video camera to even run back through and try a time on the video. I have run with a Z06 at VIR and left them with my Civic on race slicks. I konw that I did not go nearly that fast with the coupe. I loved every minute of it. Just be sure to pick up the Ferrodo brakes for all the corners and you will love the track like I did. By the way, Michelins and Goodyears suck A$$!!!!! I know, that is what I went to VIR on. Yokohamas will weld the doors on both. Hoosiers are my choice tire, but never M & Gs ever again!! __________________ I'm the one with the Limited Slip Differentials (LSD). We can build what you need!Users of LSDs: Newest Customer - sr79labrat Third - Me!! Second Customer - Kenso First Customer - LEgEnD4LiFe 95 Legend GS w/Koni shocks, all else stock 94 Legend LS Cpe 6-Speed w/Konis, Race Brakes, braided lines, AND the 3rd LSD built by us but the first to be installed!!!!! New - 86 CRX w/D16A Conversion Now with TURBO!!

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10-18-05, 01:48 PM	#5 (permalink)
gmblack3 Registered User Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Atlanta Posts: 92 Car 1: 91 5 sp coupe 184k iTrader: (0)	Bringing up an old post here, but what kind of times did you run? I just picked up a 91 5sp coupe, but I keep telling myself that I'm not going to track this car. I had to let my Z06 go, I had over 30 trackdays on it and the track is what I'm going to miss the most about the car. Hope to be back in another Z06 in a few years. I love VIR and I have ran there 4 w/e's. Most of those where with viperdays. Got down to a 2:13.1 the last time there. kumho 710s, I love those tires.

10-19-05, 12:35 AM	#8 (permalink)
bboarder711 mods: yes PLEASE!!!! Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Philly, KOP, State College Posts: 9,630 Car 1: 1995 SE white/silver Car 2: Flexdex Pro 36 Car 3: Nikon D70 iTrader: (4)	DAMN man ur lucky i wish i could go to a track! __________________ My Mission: -To create the hottest OEM "looking" legend. http://www.legendaryphotos.net <-- Recently updated!!! A-L.com T-shirts + Hoodies for sale! <-- Click

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