QuickLegend

ok i am talking about the 460's are rare on the road and at the Dealers that's why the dealers sell them at MSRP.

Back to the 350 awd sell 4k under sticker believe it or not.

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ChrisK

Checking with owners of newer Lexus cars, it is pretty easy to get some sort of discount off from MSRP. Generally for the first few months of a new released model they sell at MSRP, but after that it is not uncommon to get $1000-$1500 above invoice for a Lexus. At the very least a $1000-$2000 off MSRP. Lexus dealers are willing to negotiate since their profit margin between invoice and MSRP is usually around $6-$7K.

Spade

its because Acura is not spectacular in anyway unlike BMW with their performance and luxury, Mercedes and audi as well. Lexus and Infinity do better also because they have more to offer. atleast the RL is AWD tho, so it has a chance against the 5 series.

ChrisK

The RL itself is a great car. Well, at least the 2007 model since I think the 2008 model update looks like crap. Anyway, I've owned a lot of Acura cars mostly Legends, and also a bunch of Lexus cars as well. I think the new RL over all is a better car than the current Lexus GS. However, the RL just doesn't offer options, and it doesn't offer RWD or a V8 option. While it is true most people choose the V6 or I6 versions, having the optional V8 offers prestige to the brand which Acura doesn't have when compared to Lexus/Mercedes/BMW and such. Now, I'm not one to buy based on prestige of brand alone, but unfortunately many and perhaps the majority of luxury car buyers do buy with a high level priority on image and prestige and the RL in that regard just doesn't compete.

For me, I think the RL should remain a V6 as is, but Honda/Acura should come out with a larger more upscale V8 car to compete against the Lexus LS and BMW 7 series. Think about this. The new Hyundai Genesis offers a lot of what the Acura RL does not offer. Acura needs to step up their game on their high end. The TSX and TL do great against the competition, but the RL doesn't compete well against the competitions higher end models.

CDUBB1

I agree 100%

mrkeith

Every generation of RL released in the states is more bland, understated, floaty, bigger and uninspired than the last. Technology doesn't appeal to Americans as it does to Japanese.

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hnic

they were on the right track when they released the '02-'04 RL...after that...um...well...ya know.

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RenoG

Car buying is an emotion, the car itself has to move the customer to buy it. Be it image, be it power, be it design, those are the main elements that move people to purchase an automoblie regardless of price or its reliability. Those three elements is what makes exotics so mesmerizing its what makes the likes of MB, BMW, Audi, Lexus, and high performance sports cars alluring because they appeal to the emotion, its what you see, its what you feel, what you hear, what you perceive. This is why these cars are lusted, and why people will pay out the nose for them. Every so often a mid grade auto will catch one or two of those elements somewhere in their line up and that particular car will sale like crazy (300C / Magnum / Charger, Chevy's new Malibu, S2000, Miata etc etc)

IMHO
To compare the RL to top tier luxo brands is unfair because the RL is comfortable being logical, and making sense and has only been granted to be comfortably pleasant. The only real titilating fun it gives us is in the form of technology and thats simply not enough to compete with todays luxo barges. Regarding the RL's technology, unless you bite it you would never know there was cream filling inside, and unfortunately theres nothing about this donut that would lead you to it in order to find out. Its a techy sleeper.

In my eyes the RL's compition is not high end luxury brands, but with premium brands ie Volvo, Saab, Lincoln, and Cadillac who is quickly moving out of this into true luxury.

Here's what I think happened...

The Legend was so darn good and successful with establishing a new market in the 90's we as a customer being unfamiliar with their true identity in the market place put them in a position it never intended to be in. Think about it, its always been a V6, Its always been FWD, its always been priced as a premium brand. Their philosophy has always been the same, it all amonts to being a premium brand.

The Acura Legend forced everyone to step their game up, It made made true luxury brands go back to the drawing boards. Mid grade manufactures began to rethink what they can give by way of standards and options. Acura changed the game so much so we've come to expect from them something they never had any intentions in giving us

The bottom line, they are a premium brand, heck they invented the premium status.

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[quote]
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CDUBB1

^^ Thats a good point. The thing about being a trend setter like Acura was in the 90's is that you have to keep it up. I has always been a V6 and a fwd, but, how long do they think that people will want that? Its just time to step it up.

B+O

People didn't want or care about RWD or FWD then either. evident by the sales of SAAB's 9000 (sold pretty well) and Audi's 80 Quattro.

It's not the drive wheels that make a car, it's the peoples' perception of it. in the 60, the mini revolutionized peoples' interpretation of Front Wheel Drive. It was the Driveline to have across the pond if you planned on doing any serious low traction racing.

The Acura Legend wasn't a huge success because it had RWD and V8 (which it didn't), It was just a damn good car. They proved you don't HAVE to do what the competition is doing just to make an impact...

Why you think all of a sudden you HAVE to do what everyone else is doing to make a statement is kinda lame, and to be quite honest, unimaginative and lazy. Sure you can copy, anyone can copy. It takes imagination to come up with something like the KA7 and the KA8.

They had that imagination "power of dreams" with the SHAWD. they just didn't complete the mission with the sales tactics and TORQUE that rivaled V8 competition. Problem is they made the power, they didn't make the torque. Hopefully they learned their lesson and will do a nice powerful Turbo charged or supercharged V6 in there some kind of way standard equipment.

Now if people are clamoring for RWD for the simple shape of the car, i can understand, and i'd caution that AWD can have the same proportions. just like the Legend's FWD had the same Front/Back engine proportions that make an attractive sedan.

CDUBB1

i agree with you B+O, but i feel that is more than just bad marketing. People know about the RL, but i dont think the are impressed for the money. More posters and commercials arent gonna sell that car.

B+O

http://www.slate.com/id/2184667/?GT1=10935

Any publicity is good publicity...

Lexus finds out why Hybrid models did not have market saturation....

It's incredibly simple. Why people are trying to make it more than it is, i don't know.

It's more so the folks who don't understand that 90% of the car buying public don't sit there and read Car Forums everyday. They don't sit around picking up the latest Car&Driver and find out what car is cool to them all the time. They rely on TV COMMERCIALS and ADS in OTHER PERIODICALS to tell them which cars to buy.

Ever wonder why the Escalade has appealed to so many "Urban Markets" It was Cadillac's intention to fire into the market of the "urban" people. This is why to this day i'm not a Fan of Cadillac or the Escalade. How do you target one type of person...their Ad campaign worked. They stuffed ads in all kinds of "Urban" magazines Ebony, Essence, Jet, King, Hair...All these ways to reach the core market they were trying to get to.

BTW, that's the word THEY used. "Urban" *shakes head*

You stick your badge in everyone's face every third minute they WILL start to get curious.

Look at Cloverfield...That half-ass Clippet at the beginning of a Movie you KNEW was going to be a block buster hit....C'mon how many tens of millions of people did you ALREADY KNOW were going to see Transformers. Then stick your ad somewhere...and make it stand out... This is how good marketing directors think

How many people saw cloverfield? Quite a few based solely on ONE ad...You get your ad out to enough people your recognition goes up.

I saw first hand how "Jumper's" advertisement worked on me. I had no desire to see that movie....then after seeing commercials over andover again, i kinda wanted to see it. Now i have to see it, because I want to find out the hype about it.

The RL is NOT a bad car....Like i said, it's a great car. But you need to get people into the show room to LOOK at the RL...not just happen upon an Acura Dealership and get shown the TL by the Sales people...

Acura's not taking their own image seriously right now. You're not going to sell by word of mouth. Daewoo found that out already.

Also, incase you didn't know. the Acura Legend was all over magazines and TV spots way back when. There was big hype about the Second Generation Acura Legend.

B+O

Also,

Why do you think you'll see an Ugly guy with a cute girl every now and then...a lot of times it could be money

But then you've got BUNCHES of cases when it's simply, the guy sold himself to the girl. He "macked" her if you will. He made her believe that he was the man that she needed in her life. Not by hounding her with love, but feeding her need for "Mystery" for "intrigue" for "passion"

Ads do the same thing. You appeal to peoples' intrigue and Passion, you could sell Quasimodo's benefits to Paris Hilton....they have some box-head, hunch backed little kids running around after a year.

ChrisK

Think about this. Every large business probably already has their 5 year or so plan set and in place. They will tweak it a bit, but the road map and plan are already laid out. When did Soichiro Honda die? I believe it was 1989. When did Honda and Acura seemingly loose their vision and way? Mid 90s.

Seriously. Think about what these bone head management at Honda/Acura have done since the passing of Soichiro Honda. They changed the Legend name to RL for better brand name recognition. Nothing has a catchy name anymore and is just a simple 3 letters like everyone else in the business. They left the NSX to die by not updating it in a timely manner, and not bringing out the 2nd generation. Now they are desperately trying to bring out a successor to the NSX, but every concept attempt falls short and too late compared to the competition. The drop the mid engine. In the meantime. The Porsche Cayman goes on sale, the Audi R8 goes on sale, The Nissan GTR goes on sale, and even the Lexus LF-A is about ready to go on sale. What does Acura have? Well, they are back to the drawing board because they still can't find the right direction to go with the new NSX that should have come out back in 2000.

Anyway, brand perception plays a huge role in the general public. In the late 80s to early and perhaps mid 90s Acura's brand perception was still competitive with Lexus. Problem is, Acura's brand perception then went stagnant or down hill and Lexus brand perception and image took off. Now, Acura to many is considered an entry level luxury brand with their top model selling at $50K. I think the RL is an over all better car than the Lexus GS350, but for $50K most will choose the Lexus GS350.

The TV, Newspaper and Radio ads don't create the brand perception. People get a feel for it by the buzz around the brand. When regular people on the street here the name Acura, they think they make good cars. When people on the street here the name Lexus, BMW, or Mercedes, they think you have made it and are impressed. Not saying that is the correct, but just how people feel. That is why my insurance agent (Women in here mid 40s) gets more excited when I brought in my BMW 3 series than when I brought in my NSX. I said its just a 3 series. She said but its a BMW.

B+O

That is a great point.

That's been the problem for a long time. Acura has no catered to that clientèle in a long time. Their Name still carries clout to some people, but the Caliper has tarnished to most. It hasn't received the care and Attention (so to speak) that the Oval L has.

And speaking of people who say that. I'm pretty friendly with my neighbors. One morning i left and a few of them were either coming in or leaving out with me. we struck up conversation and something came up about My car. One of the ladies said made a comment about my late Acura (totaled in aug 2006) I said something to the effect of "it's only temporary" the other lady said "well it'll all work out...You'll be in a new Lexus soon!"

I felt a mortified look form on my face. She just laughed as we all parted ways . It's Lexus' brand image that has some people hooked. Why? I'm not too sure. It's not that the cars are Far and Above anything else on the road, it's just the fact that people talk about LEXUS all the time. You create buzz by good marketing. People get curious and go check it out. You hear about something, someone gets it, it then becomes talk at the water cooler. However i don't think RWD comes up in conversation..."did you see Jane's new car? It's a Lexus right? Yea! it's got REAR WHEEL DRIVE"

Acura probably just needs some Individualized cars. Do they need a car above the RL? If they want to be a Top Tier luxury car maker, i'd say so. They're trying to be there, so they need to do something different. I don't think they need to Build RWD cars, but they need to build a powerful engine, and stick it in something big.

Their mid-sized car is, for the lack of a better word, Mediocre in performance. Even if it is a better car (by far) over its competition. Power, even to women, is a sign of "status". doesn't matter where it comes from, but if she gasses it up, and she gets moving really fast, she'll think it's stately.

Going by my Aunt's reaction, to her E500 and GX470, it's not about how nice it was to her, it was about the combination of acceleration and luxury. She test drove the Cayenne S, X5, GX470, and something else.

and just as an Addendum, she regrets buying the E500. She said she should have just gotten the S-Class instead of wasting it on an S-Class wanna be.