VIP Legend

Because Honda doesn't believe in V8s. I'm all about high performance V6s and what not but its about time Honda unleashes a V8 on the public. This would have been the perfect vehicle in which to do that. A low-torque V6 is just not enough to propel this tank quickly through the 1/4 mile.

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B+O

it's actually dead center mid pack with its competitors. they're all low 7 second 0-60 cars. except the M35x which is 6.8 seconds.

It's not the field killer it used to be, but it's not a slouch when compared to its competition.

It's actually the most well-rounded of all the cars in its class.

I don't know why people insist it's not doing what it needs to do. It's doing just fine for the competition, marketing just sucks...

Granted it's not the barnstormer the G1 and G2 Legends used to be compared to their respective classes, but it's not completely outclassed in power and acceleration compared to its rivals. I'm curious why people insist on comparing the car to the V8 counterparts of its competition...

Also, next time you see an E class or BMW, make sure to look at the back of the car, make sure to read the designation on the back of the car. Out of the plenty of bimmers and Eclasses you find, tell me exactly how many are E500s, and how many are 545s... I'm going to pretty much bet (unless you're in Orange County or Los Angelas) you'll see a significantly less number of 545s to 535s and E500s to E320s, then you'll understand why the RL doesn't have a V8.

Even if it needed more power, V8 is hogwash, not needed. They've got big turbos now, if they wanted to make it more powerful, they could stuff some turbos on the sides of the engine and dust off the competition handily.

EDIT:

they could easily squeeze 380-420hp out of the V6 with turbos, but it would be a waste. The reason it's a waste is because not many people are going around buying 400hp Luxury Sport sedans now days.

Would it be nice? definitely! Would it be beneficial to Performance numbers against the V8 competitors? Most definitely! Would it sell more cars? no.

QBoroLegend

perfect:

^ this single thought is the only thing that matters at engineering and design meetings. As much as we want this and that or believe they should do this or that.

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BigD

Even a new camry V6 runs a 14.5, I have to say the V6 in the RL has been falling behind for years. Yes I know its a heavy luxurious car, but its just a case of technology not keeping up. My 8 year old 2 ton lexus can run the low 14s with minor air intake and muffler mods.

As far as not being fair to compare it to say a lexus LS or bmw 740, people are always going to compare because besides the powerplant, they are on the surface very similar 4 door 2 ton luxury cruisers, period. I'm not saying Acura has to have a v8, but if you are going to be hardcore about the v6, bring it up a notch.

Same goes for the gas mileage, a newish RL still gets about 16/24, certainly not blowing anyone's mind for efficiency, seeing how a 4.6L LS460 has about the same fuel rating (fueleconomy.gov) while putting out 380hp/370tq. I'm just talking about MPG here, I realize the LS460 is a good 15-20k more than a new RL.

Acura peaked with the legend, and it's been playing catchup since.

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Dv8

Two years since I started this thread and I still think that Acura made a mistake releasing their flagship with only 300hp which was later reduced to 290hp. In comparison to Toyota, Nissan, BMW and MBZ They have fallen way behind with their continued support of high end FWD cars or under powered AWD setups. IMO.

~Dv8

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B+O

You're speaking idealistically.

THe camry is FASTER than a BMW, but that's not hurting BMW's pride...why would it hurt Acura's??? I'm not making the connection.

Again, if they want, they can turbocharge the RL and make it far more car than anything in the class could handle. I just don't know if they will or not. If they do, all praise to alla if not no sweat off my back as i'm not in the position to buy one right now,even if i was, i'd pick the RL over its competition based solely on the fact that it's BETTER CAR

If you're a racer the V8 engines are what you're after. If you're looking for balance, nothing else offers that like the RL.

Since you're already pretty sure you like Lexus, that's where your money should be spent, not worrying about what Acura does.

And aside from all that, It's been proven, the 04+ TL can be supercharged using a Comptech kit. The RL is now, no different. you want morepower, there it is. Takes a bit of customizing, but you'll definitely have more power than the V8 competition that's out there.

BigD

I'm speaking as someone who is not as quite as much of a fanboy of acura.
I use lexus as an example because its a similar level japanese luxury car, and from personal experience. I like a range of BMWs, Mercedes, Older domestic, etc, but for reliability and build quality on my small budget, I stick to the japanese.

Now that sounds fun...I've come to like the 04+ TLs more than the RL in terms of overall styling, although I'm sure it lacks some of the plushness.
I don't think most mean to knock the RL as not being luxurious and balanced and well-made, just that.....they really can't tweak it a *little* more and add a little oomph?

The point is, even the used-to-be back of the pack 4 door camry (behind accord and maxima's V6 in speed) handily beats a 300hp AWD 45k$ car.
Everybody is stepping up the game.

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B+O

I'm speaking as a logically as i can as that seems to be the root mean of what Honda and Acura are doing.

a Toyota Camry can outrun at 40 thousand dollar Sports Car, i think you missed that part. There's nothing to make a point out of there, if it outran the BMW, it out runs the C-class of the same pedigree... The camry is just fast...just like the Altima 3.5. Yes the 3.5 5spd Altima is no joke, in fact it was the fastest in the class at one point with a 5.9 second 0-60 run....5.9 seconds is FASTER than the M35. so who's not keeping up with the game now? Nissan just whooped up on themselves

Nissan made their own low line car FASTER than even their Maxima was at one point. That makes no sense.

Like i said, you're looking at it Idealistically. If the only thing that matters to you is bragging rights about how fast your car is in a straight line, then by all means stick with the V8s or get an altima....


That all said, Do i wish they had more power? man yea. Do i wish it would had delivered more power on the low end? of course...But do i wish for a V8 RWD blah-blah-blah, on and on, that all the other ignoramuses out there think is "god of drivelines"? no, Why? because RWD is a hinderance when you start putting big engines in cars.The sophisticated AWD will run rings around RWD platforms on tracks with equal "footing" (meaning tires and suspension). I just don't get the whole "Give'er a V8!!!" stupidity that goes on with most "car enthusiasts" they think throwing a V8 will all of a sudden make a crap car awesome, or make a great car better.

Give the RL a supercharger and you'll have your straight line speed that you so desire, Lexus' LS400 is a totally different car anyway.

I'm still confused why you're trying level the RL against the LS400, using your deductive logic. The RL is smaller, will always be smaller. The only time lexus went heads up at the Legend was in 1991. From there it stepped to the Big car leagues. The S500s and the 740i's. The RL, Especially this current one, was NOT trying to be there.


EDIT:

And just for Reference, Nissan's Maxima is not in contention with the accord. The Nissan ALTIMA, is the car that goes head to head with the Accord, along with the Ford Fusion.

Knowing who's your competition is VITAL in making a car. That's the problem, you're trying to compare it to cars it's not comparable to. it'd be like saying "Screw the maxima it's so much more expensive than the Accord, i'll just get the accord" not knowing that the ALTIMA is the car you need to go for to get a comparison.

BigD

agreed. There is a new 3.5 5 spd altima (type S or some badge...) in my parking lot at work that is very sweet, and I don't doubt it could stomp some infinity's with the same tweaked 3.5 (kind of like the camaro beating the corvette that one year, pissing off people who had spent almost double for a slower car)



Again, I agree....but the original post and title is "Why is the new RL so slow?" and gives the 1/4 mile time....thus my focus on straight line speed, and not suspension or comfort. No argument that the AWD RL would whoop my LS400 in any kind of nasty weather or curvy roads. I've gained a new level of respect for snow after having my 2 ton V8 with 9.5" wide rims in the back ski around. Staggered setup FTL in snow!

And I guess that is part of the RLs lack of penetration into the market in some sectors, that it is NOT competing with the other big body style V8s, as unfair as it may be to compare. Not that they have to ... they can cater to their demographic and do fine, but just like Nissan's lower car beating the top end one, the TL smoking the RL (which I assume it would now) is just as confusing to some.

Given that logic, what cars *are* in the same class as the RL, and does the RL meet or exceed their 1/4 mile or 0-60?

Right right I was going back to pre-altima days actually when those 3 were the top japanese 4 door sedans.

I don't dislike the RL or mean to thread crap (B+O, its nice to see someone else who can put together an intelligent argument in an internet forum, no less) , it's a matter of choice, and money, and maturity. Do you care more about straight line speed or handling? Do you care if a 30k$ car whips your 45k$ car? What comes first: comfort and reliablity, or speed and bragging rights?
Acura aims at an older,richer crowd by making the RL look and drive the way it does, and there is nothing wrong with that....it just confounds some of us young bucks who really wanted to see a sleek updated G2-looking RL smoking those snooty bavarian V8s

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Xcaliber003

To answer your question the competition is Audi A6, BMW 5 series, Cadi STS, Infiniti M, Jag S-Type, Lex GS, and the MB E-Class; according to Car & Driver. The RL's acceleration came second to last ahead of the 530i. Every car listed was a V8 model except for the BMW and MB, and overall they still ranked the RL second place behind the M45. IMO the competition should be the six cyl. variants of each, it's not a fair comparison against the more powerful 8 cyl models.

I was most suprised by how heavy the RL car has gotten. Honda/Acura has never been about doing anything excessively (like was said before), weight included, but AWD does come w/ a penalty. It should be interesting to see what their next move is considering the heavy hittin' competition. I just hope they keep their fundamentals of good handling and balance as the top priority.

Offtopic but anyone notice that Lexus is the only Japanese brand w/ a fullsize luxury car anymore?

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B+O

Yea,

That Article pissed off ClubLexus like no other. The problem being that the RL was that good of a car...

Up against its Real Competition like Edmunds.com did, the RL was actually near the top in acceleration and KILLED THEM in Overall finish, the Lexus GS300 came dead last, next the the BMW 530i, following those were the audi, infiniti and by a LARGE margin the Acura RL first place.

Acceleration the RL was actually i think quicker than everyone but the M35x.

anymore is wrong, but yea i know they're the only one now. Nissan has canceled its president/Q45 over here because they realized that THAT MARKET is not a lucrative market to play in...That's the thing nobody seems to notice. Lexus spent a lot of time playing catch up. at the minimum they've spent 15 years trying to build themselves up to the point they are now, riding the coat tails of their competition.

The only cars that really make lexus any money are the IS and GS.

The LS is still there but only because it's been there copying the big boys for 15 years. Finally it's able to do some tricky-dick stuff on its own now.

Seriously, the car was developed to replace the Sclass for supremacy in the globe. big ambitions, and they're still trying, but it's not there yet. And as of yet, it's still just another Japanese Luxury sedan.

If they do decide to put a V12 in it, i wonder who'd buy it...if you're buying a V12, why not just get the Sclass or 760. Because if it doesn't out run the S600 (the top dog in that league) you're just wasting your money. In that class (600 class aka V12) it's all about stupid amounts of luxury and straight line speed. Comparitively how many 760s are out there? How many S600s? exactly.

B+O

I hear ya bro, that's the thing...this RL they built is for the guy who is younger...around 30-50 years old 100k dollar income.

It's tighter and more responsive that its been in a while.

The cars that are for the showboaters are the GS430, the 545, the A6 V8, the E500, and one other one i'm missing. I'm not saying i don't like to show off every now and then, but those cars don't make money. They don't sell as well as it seems they do. the only cars that sell respectable numbers are the GS300(350?) the 535 and the E350. Honda knows the market, they pay attention to the demand, and the go about attacking the market with ferocity...

It's just they suck at advertising now. Again, tell a man eating sh*t is good for him enough ways and he'll believe it. Honda hasn't told the public that "this is the car you're looking for" so they just buy what BMW and Lexus tell them to buy. which is BMW and Lexus

Those cars are for the guys who want to show off. The people who would spend more for a lower class car than the base price of the upper echelon car. I think the M45 tops out at 65k or something close, the Q45 started at like 55-60 i think. the E500 could get upwards of 70k (which of course impeded on the S430's turf)

let's not speak of the new 85 thousand dollar E63 that's all in the new S550's price range...

It's just something you have to pay attention to when debating what company needs to do.


EDIT:

Now that i've said ALL that...Made it known that the car is pretty much dead heat with its rivals. The only thing it should do now is play scrabble with turbos. And not just hold back. Beat them sensless like the G2...the only car faster than the G2 in its class and it was by a decent margin was the SAAB 9000 turbo...Kinda the same situation, the only problem here is that NOWADAYS, the Competition has split itself like a nucleus. And people buying economy cars aren't content with them being eco cars, they want them fast so the manufacturers make them fast. Which throws the whole balance off.

Now instead of the BMW 528i, Mecedes 300E, Alfa 164, Audi Quattro, Volvo 940 and a few others...you've got this hodgepode of people in the same size category but the MONEY is all screwed up..

you've got this weird two level playing feild. the Audi A6, and the Audi A6 V8. You've got the BMW 535 and the BMW 545. You've got the E350, and the E550, each car's range of cost is from the mid fourties all the way up to 70 and 80 thousand dollars...that's almost DOUBLE the price increase just across this range itself.

That's how it can get confusing...it's just a whole bunch of hodgepodge cars thrown in there, and if you don't know what you're looking at, it's easy to get confused by "well this car has 400hp, and this one only has 290. what's the difference???" "Why's this car cost 48,000 and this one is 69,500?"

it's stuff like that which can screw up people who are cross shopping...which is why i don't believe in "V8 Midsized" cars.

BigD

^ good stuff

Not really, the RL is heavier by more than a hundred pounds, same width, .5 inches taller, 3 inches shorter in overall length (98-00 LS specs vs 07 RL). Pretty much the exact same size. Only thing the RL lacks is torque, another 50 lbs or so and this thread might not be here.

I miss seeing the Q45, that was a really nice looking car (and the super rare around here M45). Mechanics and people who own them (the Q) will also tell you how $^#$ expensive and difficult they were to work on, and I'd say they were getting slaughtered by Acura and Lexus anyway....does the average joe know what a Q45 is, or looks like? Name/marquee recognition can make or break a car.

The LS is definitely guilty of apeing the S class, from the 2 tone to some of the body lines, to the V8 prowess...for about 1/2 the price. People hate on the car, but it pretty much made Lexus viable in the market and is ranked by consumers and edmunds as one of the most reliable cars in the world.
The IS and GS are the moeny makers, but to me (just like a TSX or pre 04 TL or something), they do nothing to get my attention or make me want one.

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