Not wanting to put my foot in my mouth, I did some research on Kenwoods new coaxials. This is right from Autosound and Security product review:
Kenwood Excelon KFC-X1710
MSRP: $240
Kenwood's eXcelon KFC-X1710 is a 6.75-inch coaxial set built upon a good-looking cast-aluminum basket. However, the craftsmanship falls shy of impeccable as the PCB holding the 12dB tweeter crossover is open to the elements, the wires for the tweeter are distastefully glued to the backside of the frame, and the tinsel leads to the woofer were nearly touching the legs of the frame. Yikes!
I'll go ahead and jump in with a totally countercurrent opinion. I'll jump right into the firepit by telling you if you want "wow" in sound quality you are going to have to change formats. CD's are crap. That is a digital rendition of analog sound. If you want "wow" you need analog sound from Milbert tube amps and cassette tape. The best tape is Maxell UD tape. This will give you the sound you are looking for. Go to the Milbert site and call them. Find someone who has them and listen to their stereo.
Using a tape format will help greatly. If you can get to an analog amp output you will experience the best sound available.
well I just got a set of Infinity Kappa 6.5" and 6x9" from crutchfield, they just came in today and it is so f****** cold its not even funny so I haven't installed them, but from the research I've done, it's the best bet for plug and play on our Bose systems
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"...I'm an urban Legend like a black Acura..." - Lil' Wayne
I guess what I'm getting at is, I'm surprised a 16 year old Speaker system (even if from BOSE) is still better than today's mid-level speaker and amp solutions form a brand name such as Kenwood for example. What makes their system so special other than the possibility of everything being tuned for the Legend environment and not just a drop in (if it isn't)...
I think the mid-bass and all around imaging with the stock BOSE is fantastic, but I was hoping just upgrading the 16 year old speakers, head unit, and amp would have done wonders...
My point was not that the upgrade can't do wonders... it certainly can! However, it's expensive (I'd argue beyond a $1000 budget) and a lot of work to make it do it (certainly outside of your budget if you're not doing the work yourself.)
Quote:
Originally Posted by DrDave
I'll go ahead and jump in with a totally countercurrent opinion. I'll jump right into the firepit by telling you if you want "wow" in sound quality you are going to have to change formats. CD's are crap. That is a digital rendition of analog sound. If you want "wow" you need analog sound from Milbert tube amps and cassette tape. The best tape is Maxell UD tape. This will give you the sound you are looking for. Go to the Milbert site and call them. Find someone who has them and listen to their stereo.
Using a tape format will help greatly. If you can get to an analog amp output you will experience the best sound available.
Trust me.
Dave
Dave, you are my hero. I like your style.
To mention a similar point, it's also important to understand the ramifications of MP3s. You can go as far as Dave and say CDs are crap but MP3s are compressed (lossy no less: ie. compressed in such a fashion that sound information is literally discarded from the recording) and are therefore, worse still. Some claim to not hear the difference, some claim they can... I certainly can't claim to in all circumstances: I encode my MP3s in quality levels well past those which I can detect a difference in but have some from other sources that have not been as carefully encoded and I've even heard some that sound so muddy I refuse to listen to them. It's completely possible for FM to outperform a poorly encoded MP3 and as you continue to upgrade your stereo's reproduction capabilities, issues like that will become more and more significant.
Case in point, many of the folks I know who listen with far better hardware than I own, hate satellite radio for its compressed sound (it works similarly to MP3s: it's not a "complete" transmission of the data that's on a CD and it's also digital - for that argument, read Dave's post again ) yet in contrast, I have (or have had) Sirius in both my cars and though there are times I notice issues (some channels are more reliable than others,) I find it generally quite enjoyable.
Things to keep in mind...
Quote:
Originally Posted by PuREBrEEDLegenDFiEND
well I just got a set of Infinity Kappa 6.5" and 6x9" from crutchfield, they just came in today and it is so f****** cold its not even funny so I haven't installed them, but from the research I've done, it's the best bet for plug and play on our Bose systems
These are considered plug and play in the sense that you can wire those speakers into the 2ohm Bose without trouble. They're not a bad option but it does nothing for your source (ie. no format "upgrades" to MP3/CD) or amplifier and still costs significantly more than contacting Bose to replace the original drivers. They may yield slightly better quality, but that's fairly subjective and I haven't heard them in the Legend so I'll reserve comment as to whether or not they are an upgrade.
A note though, this may be a good "step" if your intent is to eventually move to aftermarket hardware. You can spend the money for this small improvement over stock now (for the sake of discussion, I'm assuming these speakers can provide that) then spend another chunk of money upgrading source and amplifier units later and then, if necessary, spend more money still replacing the drivers again to something even more capable (or stick with them if you like them well enough.)
Thank you for the kind words. I am a home audiophile not a car audiophile. I can't stand to have the refrigerator in the kitchen running when I am critically listening to my stereo in the other room. I think it is difficult in the car environment to approach a perfect listening environment. I will jump right up and show my age. I am a tube guy! Tube based audio is superior for clean clear audio. Tube gear presents it's sound from even-order distortion. That is the pleasant sound we hear in the human voice.
When a group lays down a track is is put onto 1" tape as a studio master. The engineer then makes adjustments to the individual tracks and records a recording master on half inch tape. (sizes may vary) The recording master is an analog recording of the groups track. This is sent to the record company that either cuts an LP or converts it to a digital file and cuts a CD. During the transfer to CD much of the analog information is lost. In other words they can't get it all onto a CD. Some analog information has no digital translation.
During this process they "clean" the recording. That is they take out breath sounds and clean up the "s" and "c" words that people say. In my opinion this is a capital offense.
If you have a friend that has a turntable and a CD player in the same system take an LP and a CD of the same album over and have them play them for you. You will be amazed. The true analog recording will have a huge soundstate. That is the sound will come out the speakers and project into the room and fill the room. Digital sound generally falls out of the speaker and falls on the floor right in front of the speaker. This all musically speaking.
Now the compressed MP3, Sirius noise they sell as music. Here is what is happening. In the Sirius (sp?) radio biz they target the automotive listener. They know your listening environment is not optimal. They know that you will not be able to hear soft passage in the music. So here's the fix. ruin the recording by bringing up the volume of the soft passages and present this linear sound so you can hear everything. There are no dynamics left. I drove a friends truck for a week that had the Sirius radio installed. At first listen you say ya I've heard that song before but it never sounded like that before. After an hour I was unable to listen to the darn thing. The sound was not pleasant as it was being broadcast. Music should engauge you and surround you. You should be able to hear deep into the music and identify the placement of the musicians and the instruments.
I take this very seriously. I have a significantly greater investment in my stereo than I do the NSX.
Unfortunately you are likely on an age where you missed LP's and vacuum tube stereos. If you really enjoy your music take your favorite CD and go to a stereo store that has tube gear like Cary Audio brand. Sit in the listening room and hear the music that you have never heard before. At least you will be exposing your hearing senses to the psychoacoustics involved in stereo reproduction. You have to exercise your brain to critically listen.
This will put you way ahead of your friends and the salesman at Idiot Audio that wants to sell you a bunch of crap.
If you find a Cary Audio dealer see if they have CAD-300 SE Signature mono-blocks. Those are the amps I have. 15 clean, warm, full watts. This will have a direct corrolation to your ability to judge sound quality while you are shopping.
There are a number of quality car audio cassette decks available. Devanthedude can probably give some good suggestions. You can have CD's for making noise. Too bad you don't live closer.
Dave - I for one wish I was closer as well: I'd love to hear some of that gear! Unfortunately, I have very limited exposure to the sort of hardware you're discussing.
if you want good deals on components, amps, and subs with stellar quality and construction you gotta check out Elemental Designs.
eD seems to get mixed reviews... some people are quite loyal to them and others have a strong dislike for them. I guess it's true of any brand but eD seems to polarize more than a lot of brands.
One thing that is good about their website though, they sell DLS components, which are top notch gear.
Their amps are solid from what I gather. Their woofers seem to have a little bit of a reputation for motor noise and I know little about their components. If it were my system, I'd certainly consider their amps and possibly their woofers - I'd jump on the DLS components before the eDs however.
eD seems to get mixed reviews... some people are quite loyal to them and others have a strong dislike for them. I guess it's true of any brand but eD seems to polarize more than a lot of brands.
One thing that is good about their website though, they sell DLS components, which are top notch gear.
Their amps are solid from what I gather. Their woofers seem to have a little bit of a reputation for motor noise and I know little about their components. If it were my system, I'd certainly consider their amps and possibly their woofers - I'd jump on the DLS components before the eDs however.
where did u read that information? I've yet to see anybody talk bad about eD, but of course the only source of reviews is on their website. and i found out them thru this website (bl420 i think posted a link) and the positive reviews here.
im running one of their 13" DVC woofers and their 1200 watt amp and its the real deal. for $450 i got what i could've spent $1200 in JL for the same thing. i havent posted any pics of my setup but could if anyone wanted to see...
where did u read that information? I've yet to see anybody talk bad about eD, but of course the only source of reviews is on their website. and i found out them thru this website (bl420 i think posted a link) and the positive reviews here.
im running one of their 13" DVC woofers and their 1200 watt amp and its the real deal. for $450 i got what i could've spent $1200 in JL for the same thing. i havent posted any pics of my setup but could if anyone wanted to see...
I've spent some time around DIYMobileAudio.com and icixsound.com - folks around bimemrforums.com have expressed opinions as well. I haven't read that information outright, that's overall my impression as based on what I've read on those various sites.
I suppose I should lighten up on suggesting motor noise as an expectation for eD subs though, I've heard some general discontent with the brand that I haven't been able to identify a reason for and the motor noise comment was a recollection of a post by Ben Milne in this thread: ICIXSound.COM Forums - Project: Av.2 in the bedroom which is probably unreasonable, given we're talking about a very large box, with a large port, at very low frequency.
Thanks for the positive review though, I'll certainly note it: I've been watching eD quite a bit because their amps are pretty reasonable and would be a cheaper solution than some of the full-range class Ds I've considered for when it's time to build out my M3.
I've spent some time around DIYMobileAudio.com and icixsound.com - folks around bimemrforums.com have expressed opinions as well. I haven't read that information outright, that's overall my impression as based on what I've read on those various sites.
I suppose I should lighten up on suggesting motor noise as an expectation for eD subs though, I've heard some general discontent with the brand that I haven't been able to identify a reason for and the motor noise comment was a recollection of a post by Ben Milne in this thread: ICIXSound.COM Forums - Project: Av.2 in the bedroom which is probably unreasonable, given we're talking about a very large box, with a large port, at very low frequency.
Thanks for the positive review though, I'll certainly note it: I've been watching eD quite a bit because their amps are pretty reasonable and would be a cheaper solution than some of the full-range class Ds I've considered for when it's time to build out my M3.
yeah im running the 13Av.2 in a custom made eD box that they made. this sub is incredible though, i dont think i could stand 2 of them because it would be too loud. for the price that i paid for that, i spent the same as i could've buying 2 12's and i saved space and this setup blows away 2 12's any day. it hits incredibly clean and low.
yeah im running the 13Av.2 in a custom made eD box that they made. this sub is incredible though, i dont think i could stand 2 of them because it would be too loud. for the price that i paid for that, i spent the same as i could've buying 2 12's and i saved space and this setup blows away 2 12's any day. it hits incredibly clean and low.
I'd love to see this setup- sounds exactly what I'm looking for!
Hm... I'll be honest and say that DrDave and Antik have a point on audio quality. Now, keep in mind that I believe that sound is subjective to each and every person but better media makes all the difference in the world. If you want digital audio to sound decent, you'd better be encoding it at the highest bitrate you can... larger files, but in these days of 30+GB music players, that's a small price to pay.
I can instantly tell a difference between a low-bitrate MP3 and a decent one, and I quite honestly prefer CDs. This is over the somewhat bizarre system I've got in my car, but I'll get to that in a moment. The fact is that if you're just listening to these songs over a pair of cheap computer speakers, you're not going to hear much quality difference... but once you start playing the music over higher quality components, everything sounds muddy and washed-out.
As far as my audio system goes, as I said before... bizarre. I'm running a LS Bose head unit. Using a junkyard Legend stereo plug and an aftermarket head unit adapter, I created a conversion harness and soldered RCA jacks to the Bose head unit's output... and connected them to aftermarket amps. I'm currently running Alpine Type S 6.5" speakers I've had since I bought my G1, which are rated at 50W RMS. These are powered by a pretty generic 4-channel amp that also pumps out 50W RMS as well. I also have a single JL Audio 8" in a bandpass enclosure. As some of this was pawn shop equipment, I'd say I have about $400 in the system and about twelve hours in the wiring work. It's crude, but it sounds pretty decent... other than the alternator noise/poor ground issue I still haven't had the time to rectify. I know where to start, just haven't had the time to do the dirty work. For the time/money, I'm fairly pleased with the sound. Low-end and midbass are outstanding considering the components, although there's a 'buzziness' with treble-heavy rock guitar solos that gets downright irritating at higher volumes. It's probably either tuning or me reaching the limits of the components, I'm not totally sure.
I was wanting to keep a stock head unit for stealth as well as functionality with the steering wheel controls. I'll also be adding a stock CD changer to the trunk as well... just using a new cable rerouted down the passenger side to avoid any more noise issues. I also listen to cassette tapes relatively often as well, so I enjoy actually having the option in the stock head unit... and I simply play my MP3 player over a cassette adapter whenever I feel like using it.
I'd love to actually get some seat time in a Bose-equipped Legend to see what kind of sound quality it puts out, stock for stock. I'd also love to experiment with tube amps later on, if they make 'em for car audio applications... but that's much later on down the road.
To the OP: If you've got any interest in listening to this setup, let me know. I'm always down with chatting with other Legend enthusiasts, and I'm actually up in Denver every so often.
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No longer here. Try your local Legendology ORG.
I'm still rolling around with my stock premium Bose setup... I am currently using an FM adapter to listen to my MP3 player and to be honest, it "sucks" LOL!... I need to find a better solution... Where are these Bose replacement speakers? I would rather keep it stock, if you guys believe the sound is superior to anything I could get in the mid-grade section of a car audio department. I will look into that MP3-to-CD_Changer adapter for a clean and direct sound connection... The static I receive is horrible...
So it sounds like a true replacement to exceed the stock sound will cost me big bucks (not wanting to spend big bucks! LOL)...
Any premium stock "Boser's" very happy with their setup? If so, what did you do?
I currently don't have a stock CD Changer, and I will look into getting one as well... Too bad these CD Changers don't offer MP3 playback ability, then I wouldn't even care about Ipod hookup (6 Cd's filled with MP3's is a ton of music!)...
I want to make some upgrades... I just don't want to waste money on making it worse... There are so many options and I just can't make up my mind...
My first legend I owned had the stock bose unit replaced with a Panasonic Head Unit and Kenwood and Infinity Speakers as well as 2 12's... I was quite happy with it then I remember, but my tastes in audio have changed and I really enjoy the clean Mid-Bass kick the Premium Bose Speakers deliver (My other setup didn't really have great mid-bass)... It almost feels like these Bose speakers are tuned for the Legend environment...
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