I want to somehow edit the search engine so that it will not put a limit on how long a word has to be. There area bunch of things that are two letters that you can't look up sometimes.

 

You can search RL*** ... But is this the thread ...http://www.legend-forum.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?threadid=13880&highlight=Rl**+block

 

DV8, let me suggest a 3.5 bottom end with Type II top end. Similar to the B20/VTEC combo. If you stuffed a bunch of Nitrous into this combo, I bet you would be in the high 12's. Maybe. Good luck on transferring 12 second power thru a Legend tranny, auto or manual. I know my new clutch will not handle my 75 shot of nitrous, I already get a bit of slippage, and I think our clutch options are limited.

Good luck man!

 

DV8, let me suggest a 3.5 bottom end with Type II top end. Similar to the B20/VTEC combo. If you stuffed a bunch of Nitrous into this combo, I bet you would be in the high 12's. Maybe. Good luck on transferring 12 second power thru a Legend tranny, auto or manual. I know my new clutch will not handle my 75 shot of nitrous, I already get a bit of slippage, and I think our clutch options are limited.

Good luck man!

you dont need to suggest it its a no brainer, ive been thinking about it since it came up over a year ago. what would be the point of a odb2 slower engine when the topend of one should fit the bottom of another. Now that im faced with the fact that my rings are bad in a cyl. im going to toss the block i have and swap in another. However i am very curious about the 3.5 block. i want to make sure its all the same.

Ive been doing my research and have found that:

Block info only

- the bore is the same its the stroke thats longer.

-there is a balance shaft & pulley

-front engine mounts are the same bolt pattern on the engine side but differnt on the chassis side(swap the legends current mount and alls good)

-water pump lacks external water lines we see by the oil pump(i think they rerouted the lines into the block rather than externally)

-compression is 9.6:1 while the legend is 9.4:1(strange i was alwas told and read the legend was 9.6:1)

-All accesories accept for the PS seem to be in the same block location

-cost of a block is about 500-700

-block could be further reboared 0.02 more for additional power

-the bigger displacement would reqire more air and fuel but its nothing a SAFC couldnt handle

-Timing shouldnt play to much role as it should automatically adjust.

-diff seems to bolt up the same

My last invesigation is going to be the headgaskets of both blocks, if the oil and water holes all line up im pretty confident its a go.
and lastly i need to see what kind of sensors the block contains.

Correct me if i dont remeber but, the legend block has two knock sensors(one connection),crank angle sensor,oil pressure sending unit, speed sensor(diff) Anything else?

By doing the block swap youll eliminate sny possibale sensors from odbII and get the best topend made for the V6. the RL's and TL's engine both have primative top ends compared to the TYPE II, im not sure why they went backwards. i read somewere that both rl and tl's topend have 2 lobe cams reather than the legends 3???

feel free to add any comments.

RENO were you at?
DAVE C?

~Hybrid

 

yeah dude, I suggest you stop dragging your feet and just do it. where are you getting by "what if'ing" everything? If a block is only $500, what's stopping you????

jeezis, u have a plan, go forth Eguardo!

 

The longer stroke is going to change the engine characteristics in a frankenstein. I think engine management is going to be an issue for maximum performance.

I'd suggest investing in an RL service manual to investigate the diferences. You also might PM PSA. I'll try to get a look at my neighbors RL for anything obvious.

 

hey dv8, i was thinking about doing the rl swap last year but i chose to do the type 2 instead. But i'll see if i can round up all the information I got from school and email them to you.

 

Block info only

-water pump lacks external water lines we see by the oil pump(i think they rerouted the lines into the block rather than externally)

The later Type I (94+) and all Type II engines had the oil cooler removed and in it's place was just a cap over it. I have a '94 block and the water pump lacks the input/outputs for the oil cooler.

-compression is 9.6:1 while the legend is 9.4:1(strange i was alwas told and read the legend was 9.6:1)

I could have sworn it was 9.6:1 as well. Where did you read 9.4:1?

-the bigger displacement would reqire more air and fuel but its nothing a SAFC couldnt handle

The Type II topend should handle the air problem and with the SAFC you should be set.

Correct me if i dont remeber but, the legend block has two knock sensors(one connection),crank angle sensor,oil pressure sending unit, speed sensor(diff) Anything else?

~Hybrid

That sounds about right for the engine sensors. I am trying to picture it all in my head, I have a c32a1 block sitting in my parents garage, but no access to it.

I am also curious, as I have little experience with this, what will the results be with a block stroked for more low-end torque w/ lower redline mated with heads (Type II) designed for high revving, high-end power?

 

I am also curious, as I have little experience with this, what will the results be with a block stroked for more low-end torque w/ lower redline mated with heads (Type II) designed for high revving, high-end power?

i also have little experience with this, but if it fits, i think engine management will be the biggest problem.

peace
T

 

yeah dude, I suggest you stop dragging your feet and just do it. where are you getting by "what if'ing" everything? If a block is only $500, what's stopping you????

jeezis, u have a plan, go forth Eguardo!

hey sneek if 500 is nothing to you then hows about you send it on over myway

I dont have money to make mistakes, by no means am i dragginf my feet either.

The longer stroke is going to change the engine characteristics in a frankenstein. I think engine management is going to be an issue for maximum performance.

I'd suggest investing in an RL service manual to investigate the diferences. You also might PM PSA. I'll try to get a look at my neighbors RL for anything obvious.

i got a chiltons and compared all the specs, i dont want to spen 90 on a service manual if i dont have to at this point. i might get one of those cds on ebay for 30.

hey dv8, i was thinking about doing the rl swap last year but i chose to do the type 2 instead. But i'll see if i can round up all the information I got from school and email them to you.

i need to see the block and headgaskets up close

NICKD

The later Type I (94+) and all Type II engines had the oil cooler removed and in it's place was just a cap over it. I have a '94 block and the water pump lacks the input/outputs for the oil cooler.

nick, i dont understand. i have a type 2 block sitting outside and the two coolant lines run off the nipples of the backside of the water pump. one line goes in to what i though was the oil pump and the other takes a lone line rout behind the diff and back in the block. the RL has nothing like this.

What do you make out of the Balance shaft the RL has.

~Hybrid

 

I used to think the compression for our engines was 9.5 : 1, but in FSM it says 9.6 : 1? I don't even know what to believe anymore ~ the C35A1 RL motor is supposedly 9.6 : 1 also.

 

i believe i do remember the Cr being 9.6:1 for both C35 and C32 as what honda did was just deepen the stroke for more torque out tof the C32 to get the C35, but like i said earlier all things line up on paper its just the management that looks a bit iff to me.

 

Increased stroke kills the rev-ability though... redline at 5600rpm I believe in the C35A1? You get lots of wide flat torque though, but I don't see much room too grow... at least not when you're limited to the lower-octane fuel we get here.

 

Increased stroke kills the rev-ability though... redline at 5600rpm I believe in the C35A1? You get lots of wide flat torque though, but I don't see much room too grow... at least not when you're limited to the lower-octane fuel we get here.

there is no reason why the bottomend cant rev to 6500 or 7k like the type 2, they didnt use differnt material parts its just a longer stroke.

since the cams only have 2 lobes, im thinking that the purpose of this engine was torque not sprotiness top end like the legend. therefore a type 2 topend and the 3.5 bottomend will get some of that low-mid we need and maybe take a bit of top away.

by looking at the rl heads they are detuned legend heads.

~Hybrid

 

there is no reason why the bottomend cant rev to 6500 or 7k like the type 2, they didnt use differnt material parts its just a longer stroke.

since the cams only have 2 lobes, im thinking that the purpose of this engine was torque not sprotiness top end like the legend. therefore a type 2 topend and the 3.5 bottomend will get some of that low-mid we need and maybe take a bit of top away.

by looking at the rl heads they are detuned legend heads.

~Hybrid

To be on the safe side you may want to get the crank shaft balanced... and if money allows connecting rods and pistons. Then you should have no fear at all to run her to 7000RPM.

As far as the water pump/oil pump/cooler goes I think we are talking about two different things.

I am thinking the two black hoses that run off of the left side of the water pump that are roughly 3" long that connect as inputs and outputs to the oil cooler, the bronze colored, spherical piece attached to the block. I am not certain about what line running down to the diff... Maybe it's just something I overlooked.

 

To be on the safe side you may want to get the crank shaft balanced... and if money allows connecting rods and pistons. Then you should have no fear at all to run her to 7000RPM.

As far as the water pump/oil pump/cooler goes I think we are talking about two different things.

I am thinking the two black hoses that run off of the left side of the water pump that are roughly 3" long that connect as inputs and outputs to the oil cooler, the bronze colored, spherical piece attached to the block. I am not certain about what line running down to the diff... Maybe it's just something I overlooked.

i dont think i have that much money.

What would you do with a 160k tranny that still shifts great? does level ten really make all the stuff for our trannies?

shift kit
manual shifting piggy computer
torque converter

I know you have the torque converter, but i though you told me once that it only lets you stall 400RPM higher than before and that the shifts are hard on the trans.

if i brake it and floor it my RPMs will rise to about 1800-1900RPM, if i can raise that up i can benefit from the RL'S torque rating 225lbft@2300-2500RPM.

i dont want to ruin my tranny but i dont have a whole mess of money to rebuild it, nor do i want to tear everything apart when and if it does start to act up.

What do you think?

~Hybrid

 

And this is why you don't see me talking doing drivetrain mods. It has to be a complete package. Engine, trans, diff and axels all at once. If you can't do it all at once, lay back and save the $$$$ until you can do it right all at once IMO.

 

Yeah any kind of swap (especially a high-end one like this) requires serious funding, time, and knowledge. If you have to ask the price, you probably can't afford it.

 

i was researching some ecu options earlier today and ran across a page talking about running a c series engine off an ecu program running off dos claiming like 320hp

might be worth checking intohttp://www2.pgmfi.org/phorum/read.php?f=23&i=1&t=1#reply_1

 

Hey y'all. I'm new to this forum, but am very interested in doing hybrid work to the legends. I had a '92 ls for a couple years and wanted to use an NSX motor and then I thouhgt maybe the heads would work, then I got rid of the car out of neccessity. I have recently purchased a mint '94 GS and now want to pick up where I left off. This talk about the RL block intrigues me, but I can say from experience, the longer stroke reving past it's intended design (even when built) causes oil problems because the piston will "rock" and start to oval the cylinder. I built several ls/VTEC combos for my integra and have not been able to solve this very problem without destroking some (decreasing the cc's). Who'd want to do that? I suppose the crank could be used from an RL and slap a rod/piston combo to it w/some sleeves in the 3.2 block. It seems for the money, the way to go would be to build the type II engine top to bottom and raise the compression and cam/fuel the hell out of it. If there is some good info on this typeII/RL hybrid out there, quit holding out and let's figure this out

 

Hey y'all. I'm new to this forum, but am very interested in doing hybrid work to the legends. I had a '92 ls for a couple years and wanted to use an NSX motor and then I thouhgt maybe the heads would work, then I got rid of the car out of neccessity. I have recently purchased a mint '94 GS and now want to pick up where I left off. This talk about the RL block intrigues me, but I can say from experience, the longer stroke reving past it's intended design (even when built) causes oil problems because the piston will "rock" and start to oval the cylinder. I built several ls/VTEC combos for my integra and have not been able to solve this very problem without destroking some (decreasing the cc's). Who'd want to do that? I suppose the crank could be used from an RL and slap a rod/piston combo to it w/some sleeves in the 3.2 block. It seems for the money, the way to go would be to build the type II engine top to bottom and raise the compression and cam/fuel the hell out of it. If there is some good info on this typeII/RL hybrid out there, quit holding out and let's figure this out

ill find out for sure if this swap is a go tomorrow when the RL head gaskets come in.

~Hybrid

 

CA32A1 Head Gaskets- CA35A1 perfect match

Well i think ive done enough homework to figure that on paper the 3.5 will work with the TYPE II or I topend. i will order my 3.5 RL Engine on monday and see were this whole new Hybrid projet takes me. The HGs match up, the legends are a bit thinner. the legends motor mounts fit the rl block since they have the same bolt pattern etc.

If anyone can come up with anything else please let me know.

~Hybrid

 

Good deal, nice to have these kinds of projects rolling. You think this hybrid will replicate the Legend's top end?
I'm in the process of obtaining the ECU hex files from the Legend. If you could come up with the RL's sometime, engine management issues would be within reason. Are you going to run a Type I or II ECU?

 

Good deal, nice to have these kinds of projects rolling. You think this hybrid will replicate the Legend's top end?
I'm in the process of obtaining the ECU hex files from the Legend. If you could come up with the RL's sometime, engine management issues would be within reason. Are you going to run a Type I or II ECU?

everybody is crying fuel management and i could care less, i have a strong feeling there is not going to be any fuel problems as the injector flow rates the same, and even if its not, i have a APEXI SAFC to take care of the problem.

The only thing im using from the RL is the Engine block everything else is going to be TYPE II Legend, i dont see why the topend power witht he 3.5 block would be any different, however i do expect a bit less in exchange for some low end being its higher displacement.

The RL was built to be a low end luxury cruiser. they took the Legend and stroked it with detuned Legend heads(probably to offset what it cost to stroke the bottom end) So i have no problem reving the 3.5 to 6700RPM(stock TYPE II) were i rev my 3.2 to 7300, and the Chipped TYPE II ECU will allow me to do just that.

~Hybrid

 

Can you swap a RL engine into the Legend?

Do you think people can swap RL engines into the Legend?