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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I think my fuel system woes are coming to an end (knock on wood). Hopefully this might be useful to people on this forum:

3 weeks ago, I couldn't clean the fuel pump sock and filter (3rd since I got the car) any more and I had to go home for spring break... so I made a ghetto setup just to get me home-- I hung an expendable fuel pump in the tank to skim the gas off the top rather than the crud at the bottom. If that failed I was going to suck gas out of a red gas can, but the first setup got me home. I pumped the gasoline out (just disconnected the fuel line inside the engine bay and stuck it into a gas can and then attached a battery to the fuel pump... if you want to put the gas can in the trunk watch out for sparks from the battery!!!), jacked the car up and took out of the fuel tank (took about five hours-- I think if I did it again with proper tools and a lift I could get it down to 1-2 hrs). There was a bunch of black sooty crap in the tank. I think it was actually foam and rubber. When I took the 'original' pump (it had been replaced, poorly, by the previous owner) out it had a little black foam cover over it that was probably bigger originally. Also there was a rubber cover that was melted onto the fuel pump assembly. HMMM. I think these were to protect the pump during shipping. I'm not sure what compelled whoever changed the pump to not remove this packing foam and rubber. They just put it in the tank without knowing if it would stand up to gasoline.

Anyway I took the tank to a radiator shop and had them boil it in acid. $83. Note that there are two self tapping bolts holding the fuel line to the tank that go into these plastic pieces attached to the side of the tank. The plastic of course melted while getting boiled, leaving two small holes (don't worry the holes don't go into the tank, there is a piece of metal coming off that tank that the fuel line rests on) so I replaced these with two nuts and bolts. If you're going to get the tank boiled, remember to take the fuel sender out. It's attached in a rather silly way, kind of like those child proof caps on tylenol. Of course over 14 years of flexing and dirt it was stuck and I had to bang on it with a hammer and chisel. WD40 could have helped but I was in a hurry.

Putting everything back took about 4 hours but I took my time. The car still ran like crap though. I ended up driving back to Davis maxing out at about 65mph. After I changed the fuel filter things got better but I still kept getting PGM-FI light. I double checked the o2 sensor connections and the front o2 sensor connector was loose.

There is another problem... for reasons that puzzle me Honda went with a one wire o2 sensor for the Legend. This is just plain ghetto. There are sensors with at least up to 5 wires. Sensors with heaters will often have 3 or 4 wires (signal, signal gnd, heater power, optionally heater gnd). However Honda didn't even bother with a gnd for the signal. The ground path for the o2 sensor is ECU chassis, body, engine block. This is a very ****ty ground path. I dare any of you who have worked on their sound system to ground their speakers this way and see how well it works. I've seen the o2 sensors go to negative voltages sometimes, for example. Sheesh. I ran a wire from the o2 sensors to the ECU chassis and now the PGM-FI light has not yet returned.

More details on removing the tank:

Take the gas out!!! As much as you can!! even when the fuel pump can't suck any more up there is still about a gallon left. If you don't take the gas out this is going to be very messy and the tank is gonna be fricken heavy.

Disconnect the fuel sender and fuel pump before you jack the car up. The wires and fuel line will keep the tank from coming out the bottom if they are attached. And I personally don't want to be monkey around in the trunk of the car while it is jacked up so better do it now.

Jack the car up.

I had this giant jack that got in the way of the jack stands all the time. Had to jack near the rear of the doors and put the stands directly in front of the rear wheels. Careful not to kill any of the lines running by the left rear wheel. Also, the jack stand could interfere with the tank when it comes down so think about that. The right rear jack could also keep the heat shield from coming off.

Take the exhaust off the hangers and remove the heat shield up to the resonator or whatever that thing right after the cat is called. There are only 4 bolts holding the shield on. It will get in the way when you pull the tank out, as will the exhaust so just take the shield off and swing the exhaust out of the way.

Now the tank is held on by two belts mostly and also the various lines connected to it. The belts are clipped to the body of the car right underneath the rear passenger seat and bolted to hangers near the rear. Just loosen the bolts until you can stick your hand in above the tank on the left side of the car right at the wheel. This is where all the lines connect. There are three small red lines for the evap system, one that goes to the gas filler, and the fuel line is bolted on with two bolts that I talked about earlier. Theres also a flat cylinder type dealio that is next to where the fuel pump is.

Each of the lines has a clamp where it connects to the tank. I am not sure on what a quick way to remove these clamps is. First off, label each of the lines with a sharpie. I then drew how to connect them on the underside of the car (don't write on the tank since when it gets boiled this will get erased). Then I just sat there and held the clamps with my fingers and slowly got them to come off. Then just pull the line off. The line for the gas filler has a clamp that is tightened with a bolt. This bolt was conveniently facing away from me, the only way I could reach it would be to have hands the size of an infants. So instead I disconnected it just below the fuel filler (if you look you'll be able to see it). The fuel line is bolted on in two places: the rear left corner of the tank and on top. Remove the bolt at the corner, if you can reach the one on top go ahead and do it now, if not wait till later.

After that, get out from under the car and go under it at the rear left passenger door. The fuel line is bolted on at the corner here too. Just remove the bolt.

Then go back to the rear of the car and remove the two bolts on the belts holding the tank in. The tank is not that heavy, weighs maybe about as much as good toolbox. It won't fall out and crush you like a transmission. Mine just slowly slid out, throwing dirt in my eyes, and then got stuck on the exhaust. Also there is a last nut holding the fuel line in place. Just take it off.

By now you should have the tank out. Remove the fuel sender and anything else rubber or plastic attached. There is a plastic piece on the inside (where the hole for the fuel filler is) but you can't get it out and don't need to anyway.

Putting it in is basically the reverse. There is a little hook at the middle of the car underneath the rear passenger seat so you can lift the front of the tank up, put it on the hook, then lift the rear up and put the belts back on. Once I put the belts back on the tank was no longer touching the hook so I assume it is there just to help out with installing and removing the tank.

If you've had your tank cleaned now, do your best to keep dirt out. Change the fuel pump sock and filter and clean the fuel pump assembly off. At a shop they'd probably blow the lines out too but this doesn't really matter probably so don't go nuts if you can't do it. Talking to a Honda mechanic they did this quite often, especially on 80s Accords... $1300 for parts and labor, I should get into this business... hehe
 

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Please give me a week to read

Please give me a week to finish up reading these postings.

(my eyes are burning) LOLOL LOL

Great info man. Don't the gas tank have a drain screw ath the bottom?
Thanks
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Yeh it does... but its at the back of the car, so once you raise it at all the gas sloshes to the other end. I suppose if you can reach it when the car isn't jacked up you're good. My back end is too low.
 

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No offence but..... I am still reading!

No offence slugman

I am still reading,,,,,,, Dam I feel like that energizer Bunny!
lol
 
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