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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hey guys I have a question about my transmission.
I just got a reconditioned transmission for my 89 Honda Legend. It does what it should and comes with a 12 month warranty. however there are a couple of things which I am worried about.
Firstly when I move the gear selector from P to R or N I get a chunky metal grinding sound. So when I pull the shifter from P to reverse it goes crunch. then when I pull it out of reverse I get another loud crunch. it is loud and happens very quickly.
Also when I start the car in the morning in N or P the car moves forward. It rolls forward a couple of inches and then rolls back to its previos position. Now I have a 12 month warranty and the repairer is not that close to me so I am going to drive it around for the moment but I will have to take it back soon. I was just wonderting what you guys think.

Also I noticed when I am driving and I take my foot off the accelerator the revs drop right down to idle then bounce back up very quickly to where they should be. This also happens sometimes when I am slowing down and the revs are at about 1500 and I put my foot on the brake. As soon as I thouch the brake the revs shoot down then fly straught back up again. it is quite weird.

Let me know what you think. thanks for any help.
 

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i had that same problem with my transmission...it deeply has something to do with the lines because when i cleaned the solenoids i had to move one of the lines which was a bad idea......
i've been trying to figure it out

as for you idle all honda's do that except the carb models.

i noticed that...if i'm below 45mph i let the gas go it'll go down then back up.
it did it with my lx-i and it does it with my legend.
 

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I have that same grinding noise, but it only happens when the tranny and engine are cold. Also, is it just the RPM guage that shoots down? Or can you feel/hear the engine dropping those RPMs? If it's just the gauge, then your fine.
 

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reeeky2001 said:
I have that same grinding noise, but it only happens when the tranny and engine are cold. Also, is it just the RPM guage that shoots down? Or can you feel/hear the engine dropping those RPMs? If it's just the gauge, then your fine.
My tranny crunches too - only when cold. It does not crunch for R, its real bad for N and somewhat bad for D. Its been doing it for almost a year (since I got it) and has not gotten better or worse. After flushing the tranny 3 times and filling with honda atf nothing changed...shifts improved a bit though.
I also have the rev issue but only when the car is parked and idling, it is not the gauge, i can hear the engine bounce from 7 or 8 hundred down to 4 or 5 then back..it'll only do that after the gas has been pressed. A friend told me the throttle position sensor was at fault..I've got a spare one I may swap it at some time but I'm not taking that problem too seriously.
BP
 

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Yes people, our G1 tends to shift a wee bit on the rough side, fyi for those of you out there just recently acquired these cars... these are the norms that you have to learn and leave with, stay on top of the scheduled maintenance and you'll go a long way...

Dont be so paranoid dude, you'll be alright... but if you are really bothered by this, then I'd call the repair shop and get some assurance since you got that warranty.

As for the accelerator issue 89HondaLegend, try cleaning your throttle body... butterfly plate inside could just be sticking :)
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Thanks for all the help guys. I will clean the TB as soon as I can. I wasnot sure if the revs dropping was normal but i suppose it is. The motor definetely drops down with the revs and then goes back up. But I suppose this is normal.

The crunch is not a normal noise and should not be there. I believe a RECONDITIONED transmission should shift smoothly and not have any crunching noises coming from it. So yes I will be letting them know that shifts are not smooth and it is crunching.

pnoye2 wouldn'y you be worried if you gearbox was making some crunching noises. Just so you know Automatic gearbox crunching = Bad
 

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well our trannys are set up as a manaul but with shifting solenoids, t/c, valve bodies, etc.

the reverse uses a shift fork to move the gear into and out of....
theres a servo that pushes the fork.....that could be clogged or that line is bent a bit...
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
It seems strange that it would make the noise seeing as it has been reconditioned though.
 

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Here is the TSB on the grinding noise



ImageCHNICAL BULLETIN # 116

TRANSMISSION: 4 Spd Automatic

SUBJECT: Noise

APPLICATION: Honda, Acura, Sterling

DATE: June 1992

4 Speed Automatics Noise going into and/or out of reverse

Image


To fix a Honda that grinds in Reverse and/or out of reverse you first need to
understand how it works. The normal position (i.e. park, neutral, drive, 3rd and 2nd) of
the reverse/4th gear set is shown in the figure below. When the manual control valve
is moved to the reverse position, oil charges the bottom of the reverse servo

including port E located on the servo. As the servo moves up, port C & B will be
connected. At this point, the reverse gear selector will be engaged to the reverse gear
and the reverse servo oil can now flow out port B to apply the
4th clutch . When the manual control valve is moved out of reverse, pressure at port D

will move the servo down to engage the 4th gear. As the servo approaches the gear
position 4th clutch oil will exhaust thru port A.

The grinding occurs when the reverse gear selector is between the two gears. During
this time the gear set is momentarily in neutral. If the gears start turning, you'll get a
grind.


NEVER shift a Honda into or out of Reverse while the car is moving.

THINGS TO CHECK BEFORE A REBUILD

LINE PRESSURE
Low line pressure will slow the rate that the servo will move. The longer it takes to
move the shift fork from one range to another, the greater the Opportunity for the
gears to grind. Check bulletin # 090 for pressure specs.

WHAT TYPE OF OIL IS IN THE TRANSAXLE?
See if the transaxle has been serviced recently. Some oils like type "F" can cause the
4th clutch to drag. Honda oil works best.

CHECK TO MAKE SURE THE MAINSHAFT AND COUNTER SHAFT AREN'T
BENT.
If you can get the end cover off, rotate the two shafts and make sure they're not bent.
This can cause a mechanical bind.

THINGS TO CHECK DURING A REBUILD

1. CHECK THE REVERSE/4TH GEAR SET FOR WORN TEETH

Ima6.0% done - G...



Worn teeth on these parts are not normally the cause of the noise but the result of
these gears grinding. It is important for the smooth operation of this transaxle that
these parts not be worn. If they are worn replace the gear set.

2. 4TH CLUTCH CLEARANCE.

A tight 4th clutch pack will cause excessive drag. The clearance in the 4th clutch
should be .016" - .024" on all models except AK: .016" - .028" and AS: .016"- .023" It
may be to your advantage to favor clearances to the loose end or specs.

3. FRICTION MATERIAL
The type of friction material used will influence how the 4th clutch releases out of
reverse. If the clutch doesn't break loose or if it drags, the transaxle will grind. Always
use top quality frictions. When in doubt, use factory frictions. It is important to check
the clutch plates for flatness.

4. CHECK THE 4TH/REVERSE HUB CLEARANCE

Image


Assemble the mainshaft (including the case bearing) and tighten the nut to 25 lb ft.
The Reverse/4th hub should have .003" - .006" endplay. If you don't have any
clearance, you have a mis-assembly or a worn Reverse/4th bearing collar.

Note
Reverse/4th bearing collar is the part that the needle bearing rides on.

5. SERVO SHAFT & BORE

Make sure the servo shaft and bore are not scored. A damaged shaft or bore can bind
the servo. The servo must be allowed to move quickly from one gear to another.

6. SERVO SHAFT BOLT


Image


Make sure the servo has a shouldered bolt. Using a shouldered bolt on the servo will
prevent you from bolting the servo shaft in backwards. Bolting the servo in
backwards will restrict port "A" which is the 4th clutch exhaust out of reverse.


7. MAKE SURE THE SERVO CONTROL VALVE ISN'T STUCK

apply & release.

Note
Models without a servo control valve use an orificing checkball.

8. SERVO RELEASE CHECKBALL

Make sure this checkball does not leak. If it does, the servo will not release fast
enough. This will cause a grinding noise when you shift out of reverse.

9. 1stCLUTCH FEED PIPE BUSHING

Image


Noise from Drive to Reverse can be caused by a worn 1st clutch feed pipe bushing. If
this is so, there will be a small amount of oil pressure at the 4th gear tap in drive.
(Check it with the wheels stationary.) This may also cause 4th clutch failure.


If you want the full TSB with images then pm me your email address.
 

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Your correct, automatic gearbox crunching = BAD... totally agree 100% 89HondaLegend, I'd be concerned too specially after a reconditioning service was just done.

As Black_Panther previously mentioned, flushing/filling could improve shifting (among other things) and recondition the tranny, I'd also try jmm67 recommendation.

Through the years I followed the recommended maintenance intervals for auto tranny fluid change every 30K miles and 250K+ miles later it's still running strong.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Thanks for that jmm67 I will note those down. that is very helpful. ]
pnoye2 I am just going to take it back because as jmm67 has explained the mechanic has either put something back together wrong or the transmission is not all what it should be even though it was rebuilt :mad:
 

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My 1990 Legend did it before i replaced it, my 1992 civic did it, my 87 civic did it, its just how these trannies are built. real honda guys will tell you that this crunch is what leads to the loss of reverse in many hondamatic 4 speeds. To avoid this crunch ... just shut the car off in neutral and then put it in park and turn the key the rest of the way off. Even tho it doesnt make a noise ... its still happening .. its cheap fail safe insuracne for your trans ... being as fragile as they are.
 

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I'm confused: I've been driving Hondas since the mid-70's (76 Civic wagon; 78 Accord Coupe; 82 Accord sedan; 84 Civic Wagon; 88 Accord Exi) and have NEVER had a grinding or crunching transmission problem ..even on my two high-mileage Legends. Hey, Australia ...have tried adjusting the shifter cable? Follow the adjustment procedure in the Service Manual ...that may help a bit. Other than that, I'd take it back to the place I bought the re-con tranny, and get them to replace it.
 

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Im laughin about the never put a honda into reverse while going forward ... i accidentaly threw my 92 civic lx in reverse going 35 mph ... it just clicked like crazy till i pulled it back into neutral. never had a problem with it other than the griding.
 
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