Acura Legend Forum banner
1 - 20 of 48 Posts

· Life Ruiner
Joined
·
4,868 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
A growing number of you all are buying Legends because of their depreciated value and wanting to swap TYPE II engines or parts from it to make it more powerful well, i have news for you all, it may not entirely be worth your while. I pioneered the TYPE II setup back in 99' so my credentials speak for themselves.

The TYPE II is a bit better on paper, but the 30hp more the manufacture claims is hardly that. I like the TYPE II because the manifold is cleaner with less vacuum sensors and such, however when compared to the RL manifold its the RL that is cleaner.This obviously has nothing to do with HP. As for airflow, there should be no doubt that a port and polish on any of these manifolds will do just fine. The RL again comes up supreme in my opinion because of the way the manifolds runners are radiused. Also completely removing the VIS is an option for top end power on any of the manifolds. More info on that as i get more driving in my car. As for the heads the TYPE II are the best, but by a very small margin vs. the TYPE I. 1mm bigger fuel valves, better exhaust manifolds,and a bigger fuel rail is about it, not much considering the level of work.

Comparing the componets that matter the bottom end is identical vs TI & TII.

Bottom line if you have to replace the entire engine because of necessity by all means go TYPE II, but if your looking for HP there are way better mods out there to give it to you such as, intakes, exhausts, ECU upgrades etc.

Anytime you go porting this engine out expect to lose TQ, and on a car like this that may not be something you’re willing to lose unless you go all out.


~TRu Hybrid
 
G

·
Dont forget that with a cold air intake, port and polish, a nice set of headers, with some good exhaust work, you may increase top end HP but you are going to lose even more low end torque; legends have very little torque at low RPM's in the first place.

If only somebody would develop cams for the TypeII to utilize that extra 30hp to gain extra torque at lower RPM's, the typeII would be more worthwile. DV8 if I remember correctly your 3.5 block has more torque than horse power... one of the reasons why its such a beast. What makes the 3.5 block have so much torque?
 

· Renaissance.
Joined
·
3,096 Posts
Dv8 said:
A growing number of you all are buying Legends because of their depreciated value and wanting to swap TYPE II engines or parts from it to make it more powerful
When I first started looking for a new "used" car, I was looking @ a CRX Si. The guy wanted $3300 for it, and it needed a little work. After doing some research, it made more sense to spend $3200 on a Legend that's pretty much fully loaded vs a CRX that is pretty basic. I made my purchase b/c I got a lot more "car" for my money. It was only AFTER the purchase that I decided to check into modding it, as I'm sure it happened w/the majority of us.

Now that I made the investment, since the original motor has 213k, it only makes sense to upgrade to the JDM Type II as opposed to getting the HGs replaced. Again, it wasn't my intention to throw in a JDM motor when I bought the car, but logically, it makes sense. For the price of JDM Type II motors vs the cost of the JDM Type I motors vs price of HG replacement....like I said, it makes sense to go w/the JDM Type II swap for the very reasons you pointed out (better heads and intake manifold).

The other thing is that with the addition of more weight on the car due to various upgrades (bigger rims/tires, sound deadener, stereo systems, etc), those of us w/a Type I need all the help we can get :D! Although I want all the power I can get, in the quest for hp, stripping out the stereo, A/C, and power steering for a few extra horsepower....in this car that seems asinine. I'm a power fanatic....to a point. I also want the enjoy the luxury side of this car.
 

· K L E A N M O D™
Joined
·
5,069 Posts
Wouldnt ti be a better option to just swap in the 3.5 RL motor into the legend once the HG blows? Given its a little more custom work but more TQ.
 

· SR79 Labrat
Joined
·
1,235 Posts
Is there a rebuild kit for the Legend? I have never seen one.
I would think that P&P the heads and the manifold would be the way I would go, but then again if you have to look at cost effictiveness. A Type II with 30k miles or less vs a Type I with a new top end and all the other miles added on. Which brings me to my next question. The guy that built his engine to 10.5:1(there abouts) comp ratio....what else did he do to his car?
Thanks, Kyle
 

· Renaissance.
Joined
·
3,096 Posts
Thai.95LCoupe said:
Wouldnt ti be a better option to just swap in the 3.5 RL motor into the legend once the HG blows? Given its a little more custom work but more TQ.
More custom work equates to more money, as it seems the great majority of Legend owners don't have the mechanical prowess to do it (the engine swap), which would necessitate paying someone else to. I don't know about you, but the idea of letting someone that hasn't done this type of swap before (C35A into a KA7/8) near my car is a bit nerve-wracking.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
4,086 Posts
Its hard to find a used 3.5L, most yards dont want to sell them or strip the cars yet.

the 3.5L is a stroked version of ours...so most strokers get more TQ, but as DV8 has said the heads were detuned greatly. That is why he did his hybrid.

I have one question:

Leon's old car(the new owner) claims he bored it to a 3.5. Is this possible and if it is....the how many over would it be?? I know acura makes piston A and piston B based on rebuilding....

thanks
 

· Registered
Joined
·
2,843 Posts
swift said:
DV8 has said the heads were detuned greatly. That is why he did his hybrid.

I have one question:

Leon's old car(the new owner) claims he bored it to a 3.5. Is this possible and if it is....the how many over would it be?? I know acura makes piston A and piston B based on rebuilding....

thanks
I think that's somewhat of a misconception. The RL heads have the same size valves as Type 1 heads. It's the cams that are "detuned".

You can't overbore the Legend block to a 3.5 unless you get it resleeved and use custom pistons.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
4,086 Posts
Kenso said:
I think that's somewhat of a misconception. The RL heads have the same size valves as Type 1 heads. It's the cams that are "detuned".

You can't overbore the Legend block to a 3.5 unless you get it resleeved and use custom pistons.
o you are right kenso, my bad. I did figure he had to do custom pistons etc....
 

· Registered
Joined
·
4,086 Posts
....its hard finding the "right" used 3.5L. 02' and up...........


I would love to be able to bore out the 3.5 but it is correct that we have more at risk doing so..

I have some ideas i am still tossing around.
 

· Renaissance.
Joined
·
3,096 Posts
swift said:
....its hard finding the "right" used 3.5L. 02' and up...........
I guess I'm having a hard time understanding what "right" is. I went to car-parts.com and found 6 of them, all 2004, 1k-3k miles, for $900. That's not counting the other 10+ 2002+ motors I found there before I got tired of looking.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
466 Posts
Here are the exact upgrade Honda/Acura did on the Type 2 to get the 30 more HP.
1.Intake Manifold port length and diameter has been changed
2.increase in Intake Valve
3.Change in Cam profiles
4.Exhaust manifold is bigger
5.Cat is bigger
6.exhaust system is better flow
7.same coating used as in F1 engine is used for the conrod metal to enhance oil thinning and burning.
8.Gear ratio has been changed lower for better response.
9.Gas pedal stroke has been changed to adjust to the motor and the gear ratio.

I got this all from the Honda Fact Book in Japan so don't even think about argueing. But ofcourse not all of this might have been done for the US models.

Here's the link... but it's in Japanese...
http://www.honda.co.jp/factbook/auto/LEGEND/19920929/le92-002.html
 

· Registered
Joined
·
4,086 Posts
whats77inaname said:
I guess I'm having a hard time understanding what "right" is. I went to car-parts.com and found 6 of them, all 2004, 1k-3k miles, for $900. That's not counting the other 10+ 2002+ motors I found there before I got tired of looking.
thanks. I didn't look that hard...plus i would have to count shipping..$300??

latta
 

· Life Ruiner
Joined
·
4,868 Posts
Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Hi-Legend said:
Here are the exact upgrade Honda/Acura did on the Type 2 to get the 30 more HP.
1.Intake Manifold port length and diameter has been changed
2.increase in Intake Valve
3.Change in Cam profiles
4.Exhaust manifold is bigger
5.Cat is bigger
6.exhaust system is better flow
7.same coating used as in F1 engine is used for the conrod metal to enhance oil thinning and burning.
8.Gear ratio has been changed lower for better response.
9.Gas pedal stroke has been changed to adjust to the motor and the gear ratio.

I got this all from the Honda Fact Book in Japan so don't even think about argueing. But ofcourse not all of this might have been done for the US models.

Here's the link... but it's in Japanese...
http://www.honda.co.jp/factbook/auto/LEGEND/19920929/le92-002.html
regardless, numbers dont lie and its not night and day difference.

swift, if you cant figure out what 3.5 block to get on your own, then you shouldnt consider doing the swap. no one told me, i just looked for a working, un harmed 3.5 with low miles.

~TRu Hybrid
 

· Registered
Joined
·
4,086 Posts
swift, if you cant figure out what 3.5 block to get on your own, then you shouldnt consider doing the swap. no one told me, i just looked for a working, un harmed 3.5 with low miles.

~TRu Hybrid[/QUOTE]

I know what block to get...i was just looking for one locally. I thought he didn't know. latta
 

· Registered
Joined
·
147 Posts
Kenso said:
I think that's somewhat of a misconception. The RL heads have the same size valves as Type 1 heads. It's the cams that are "detuned".

You can't overbore the Legend block to a 3.5 unless you get it resleeved and use custom pistons.
go ask your local machine shop , legend can bored over 3.5 liter. if you bored to 3.5l it not necessary required sleeve. the RL , TL , and Legend are using the the Same Headgasket. If you bored the RL you still using the same Headgasket. there Actually a company in argentina made aftermarket headgasket ( Multi Layer Steel ). Due to the lack of buyer they don't make it no more. i was place an order but was too late the company stop making them. The reason why Acura don't make gasket Steel because the design of the Legend block. the cylinder wall are thin around the cooling system. if legend overheated with steel gasket the block most likely will bent. when legend get close to 200k miles or 12yrs it will automatic overheat. the gasket will decay itself.

if you look at Nissan ,toyota ,dodge and Ford block .the wall around the cylinder are very thick around the cooling system. That why it using steel gasket.

Leon sold the car to me overheated and i fixed myself . one month later overheated again ,hose crack. the heads resurface 2 times , i also deck the cyclinder . the engine are very high compression . i was going to bored the intake and exhaust valves . at that time money is short i didn't do it. If you find the right machine shop they can do anything if you have MONEY.

Now i understand why legend classify as Luxury car. it not meant to mod or Fast. The stock block 2Jzgte of the toyota supra can hold up to 900HP and Nissan stock SR20det or RB block can hold around 400-500HP. IF Legend run turbo with 400Hp the HG Will blow in one or two month.
 

· Registered
Joined
·
147 Posts
swift said:
swift, if you cant figure out what 3.5 block to get on your own, then you shouldnt consider doing the swap. no one told me, i just looked for a working, un harmed 3.5 with low miles.

~TRu Hybrid
I know what block to get...i was just looking for one locally. I thought he didn't know. latta[/QUOTE]

HEY! swift if you going to swap 3.5L , get the whole frame from 96-04 RL THAT hold THE Engine up by 4 BIG bolts. don't do like DV8 or you end up spending MONey custom Mount AND other junk . the RL 02 and 03 are same power as 04. good luck
 

· Registered
Joined
·
2,843 Posts
kkiepvvessau said:
go ask your local machine shop , legend can bored over 3.5 liter. if you bored to 3.5l it not necessary required sleeve.
The recommended overboring limit from Acura is 0.5mm. Anything over that and you risk cracking the sleeve. You would still need custom pistons beyond 0.5mm as well. Half a mm of bore increase on the 3.2 only gives you an additional 36cc of displacement.

 

· I'van der Rohe
Joined
·
13,069 Posts
Kenso said:
The recommended overboring limit from Acura is 0.5mm. Anything over that and you risk cracking the sleeve. You would still need custom pistons beyond 0.5mm as well. Half a mm of bore increase on the 3.2 only gives you an additional 36cc of displacement.
i keep getting 98cc.:confused:
you're right though, that dude is on some other stuff:giggle:
 
1 - 20 of 48 Posts
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top