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Like Dethred said, sounds like a simple leak. Just make sure you top it off before you drive it to the shop so the problem doesn't escalate.
 
The no heat condition was probably caused by air from the leaking hose. If the car didn't overheat you should be fine. When you get it to the shop have them replace all coolant hoses, thermostat, radiator cap, and do a coolant flush.

All the hoses include: Upper radiator, lower radiator, differential cooler (2), oil cooler (2), throttle body (2), fast idle valve (2 I think), heater hoses (3), and control valve.

This will be a little pricy, but sure beats risking a BHG.
 
Kenso said:
Like Dethred said, sounds like a simple leak. Just make sure you top it off before you drive it to the shop so the problem doesn't escalate.
Yeah, I plan to top it off tonight, so I don't have to mess with it in the morning. The good thing is, right now the weather is 30s for lows and 40s for highes, so as long as I can keep the car moving, there will some some cold air going into the engine bay-hopefully

Rumnarv said:
The no heat condition was probably caused by air from the leaking hose. If the car didn't overheat you should be fine. When you get it to the shop have them replace all coolant hoses, thermostat, radiator cap, and do a coolant flush.

All the hoses include: Upper radiator, lower radiator, differential cooler (2), oil cooler (2), throttle body (2), fast idle valve (2 I think), heater hoses (3), and control valve.

This will be a little pricy, but sure beats risking a BHG.
When you say pricey, any idea how much it would be to replace all those hoses? I'm really hoping that they can just find the specific leak and fix that, instead of just replacing things and shooting blind.
 
91LSMAN said:
Yeah, I plan to top it off tonight, so I don't have to mess with it in the morning. The good thing is, right now the weather is 30s for lows and 40s for highes, so as long as I can keep the car moving, there will some some cold air going into the engine bay-hopefully

When you say pricey, any idea how much it would be to replace all those hoses? I'm really hoping that they can just find the specific leak and fix that, instead of just replacing things and shooting blind.
A cooling system leak is really easy to find with a pressure tester (your shop will have one), so they won't be shooting blind. If one hose is starting to leak then there is a good chance that all of them have the same kind of wear and tear on them and should need replacing. It will prevent any hose leaks in the future.

The only thing that I could see costing is the labor on the heater hoses and fast idle hoses because they are a real PITA to replace. The differential cooler lines especially the one that goes into the block above it is pretty tough as well. The price for the hoses are around $12 to $15 for your rad and heater hoses. All of the small ones can be replaced with cut from a roll stuff (real inexpensive). The heater control valve is about $50. These prices are based on Gates hoses which are better than OEM anyways.
 
Rumnarv said:
A cooling system leak is really easy to find with a pressure tester (your shop will have one), so they won't be shooting blind. If one hose is starting to leak then there is a good chance that all of them have the same kind of wear and tear on them and should need replacing. It will prevent any hose leaks in the future.

The only thing that I could see costing is the labor on the heater hoses and fast idle hoses because they are a real PITA to replace. The differential cooler lines especially the one that goes into the block above it is pretty tough as well. The price for the hoses are around $12 to $15 for your rad and heater hoses. All of the small ones can be replaced with cut from a roll stuff (real inexpensive). The heater control valve is about $50. These prices are based on Gates hoses which are better than OEM anyways.
Ok, thanks. It's hard to say what caused the leak. I almost think the top of the radiator blew after looking things over, but it could be one of the upper hoses. I'm just not sure. We'll see what happens. Gotta get there tomorrow, hopefully without incident.
 
New Legend Owner: Question about coolant in the reservoir

Hi,
I just bought a 94 Legend L Sedan w/ 116K mi and am quite surprised at how well this car is put together. The prior owner of this car was quite meticulous in having the maintenance done; by the records I have (all of them), it appears the mechanics did make some bucks keeping this Legend in tip-top shape.

Summary:
* Temp guage sits 1/2 up when the engine is warm and stays there
* Radiator recently replaced by prior owner 7K miles ago (109K).
* All radiator & heater hoses look brand new (likely replaced with new radiator).
* Coolant flush last done @ 109K.
* Heater blows hot air consistantly.
* Top Radiator hose gets warm.
* No hesitation felt on acceleration
* No Hydrocarbons in the exhaust. Just had the car smogged yesterday:
@ 15MPH: HC MAX = 81, AVG = 21, Measured = 5
@ 25MPH: HC MAX = 47, AVG = 13, Measured = 3
* Coolant level is 1" higher than the MAX LINE.

Q: Is the last one a problem?

It was this way when I bought it and I wanted to solicit suggestions prior to taking any action. Or, should I just use a turkey baster to remove the excess coolant? BTW, I HAVE read each and every one of the posts on this thread. The only mention of this was for another person who just bought a white legend. Of course, someone immediately replied that this was a common BHG symptom but I have yet to hear any other comments.

If the car works fine and I purchased it for only $3K, is there any reason I shouldn't drive it into the ground?

Thanks again for your help.

-g
 
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91LSMAN said:
Holy Crap,

This thread is 58 pages long. I don't wanna read all 58 pages, but dad's Legend had an issue today:

He took a short trip to the store in his 94 Legend. He turned the heat on, but it never got hot. He popped the hood when he got home and there was some coolant in the engine bay and a hissing sound (most likely, IMO, coolant hitting the engine) It was dark when I got home, so I have not looked at anything yet. I think he mentioned the hose going from the top of the engine to the radiator had coolant on/around it.

Basically I'm hoping that maybe it's just that hose that is leaking, causing the coolant leval to drop, which is making the heat not work. Or worst case the radiator top is coming loose.

He also said it never overheated, everything seemed fine, but no heat, coolant in engine bay.

I'm taking his coupe to Auburn City Imports on Monday, but I would appreciate your thoughts. I've gone through the headgasket issue with my coupe and I don't need him to have to go though that.

Thanks.
Just to let you all know, Dad's Legend is taken care of. There was lots of coolant in the engine bay so it was hard to see where it all came from. It was the top of the radiator and there is already a new CSF radiator in the Legend, so it's good to go!!!
 
i have a problem...i got a legend and first thing i did was get the fluids flushed and replaced...a few days later after the coolant flush and thermostat change my care started to overheat, i had it checked and they said that the system needed to be bled and they did so, a few days later the same thing ...it started to overheat so i had it checked again by a different person and they flushed the coolant system and changed the thermostat...and again a few days later it started to overheat again...even while in motion the car startes running hot and when i stop it starts to overheat....someone please help...what should i do /what should i get checked?
 
They must bleed it with the heat on full hot or it will trap air in the cooling system and cause the overheating. ONLY use an ACURA OEM thermostat!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Did it overheat any when you test drove it before the purchase? Many Legends are being sold due to Blown head gasket. What you described is a classic symptom of BHG.
 
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S4gunn said:
Hi,
I just bought a 94 Legend L Sedan w/ 116K mi and am quite surprised at how well this car is put together. The prior owner of this car was quite meticulous in having the maintenance done; by the records I have (all of them), it appears the mechanics did make some bucks keeping this Legend in tip-top shape.

Summary:
* Temp guage sits 1/2 up when the engine is warm and stays there
* Radiator recently replaced by prior owner 7K miles ago (109K).
* All radiator & heater hoses look brand new (likely replaced with new radiator).
* Coolant flush last done @ 109K.
* Heater blows hot air consistantly.
* Top Radiator hose gets warm.
* No hesitation felt on acceleration
* No Hydrocarbons in the exhaust. Just had the car smogged yesterday:
@ 15MPH: HC MAX = 81, AVG = 21, Measured = 5
@ 25MPH: HC MAX = 47, AVG = 13, Measured = 3
* Coolant level is 1" higher than the MAX LINE.

Q: Is the last one a problem?

It was this way when I bought it and I wanted to solicit suggestions prior to taking any action. Or, should I just use a turkey baster to remove the excess coolant? BTW, I HAVE read each and every one of the posts on this thread. The only mention of this was for another person who just bought a white legend. Of course, someone immediately replied that this was a common BHG symptom but I have yet to hear any other comments.

If the car works fine and I purchased it for only $3K, is there any reason I shouldn't drive it into the ground?

Thanks again for your help.

-g
From what little I know, any hydrocarbons in the anti-freeze means there is a leak somewhere. If there is no overheating you shouldn't worry very much right now.
 
My friend has owned a Coupe with a Type II and i loved it...so I;ve decided the time has come to get one for myself...but I'm rather put off by the HG issue..

A couple of questions about it:

-Are the problems limited to either version of the engine? (Type I / II)

-I read a comment that most people swap engines because to change the HG would just mean it was likely to blow again in 50k miles....surely a replacement engine would have exactly the same problem?

-How widespread is the issue? With the Toyota Surf, the original head design was flawed, and so about 80% of the vehicles imported to the UK from Japan ended up having to have a replacement redesigned head. Does the legend have a design fault causing it? Or is it just previous treatment of the vehicle?

-How likely is it that a C32A2 HG will blow? Is it more of a when than an if? Or do you just have to ride your luck?

Any help would be greatly appreciated...especially if it can put my mind at ease :giggle:
 
Chiko said:
My friend has owned a Coupe with a Type II and i loved it...so I;ve decided the time has come to get one for myself...but I'm rather put off by the HG issue..

A couple of questions about it:

-Are the problems limited to either version of the engine? (Type I / II)

-I read a comment that most people swap engines because to change the HG would just mean it was likely to blow again in 50k miles....surely a replacement engine would have exactly the same problem?

-How widespread is the issue? With the Toyota Surf, the original head design was flawed, and so about 80% of the vehicles imported to the UK from Japan ended up having to have a replacement redesigned head. Does the legend have a design fault causing it? Or is it just previous treatment of the vehicle?

-How likely is it that a C32A2 HG will blow? Is it more of a when than an if? Or do you just have to ride your luck?

Any help would be greatly appreciated...especially if it can put my mind at ease :giggle:
-Not limited to either engine, or country spec.

-Yes, replacing an engine can give you the same problem later. Most people have had success with replacing their headgaskets and never having to do them again. I am sure a few have had problems due to improper install, more overheating, or not getting the heads resurfaced.

-It will get every engine eventually, usually between 150-190k miles it will get one even with little or no overheating. One guy on here that swears by Honda anti-freeze got one at 60k miles.

-It has not been 100% determined where the design flaw is, but cylinders 5 and/or 6 are usually the culprits. While the flaw hasn't been identified, it is common knowledge that there is one there.

-Its more of a when, than if. I remember when I was flyin' high proud that I was one of the few that hadn't gotten a bad head gasket at around 170k miles. By 180k miles I had my car apart in the garage with the heads at the machine shop. People will tell you that its a matter of not letting your car overheat, but that is 99.9% impossible. Every car will overheat at one point or another, even if you replace everything in the cooling system on a yearly basis.

The point is, these cars will overheat with a tiny bit of air in the system. Its a matter of 1-2 Fluid ounces of anti-freeze being replaced by air and the car will overheat, then its almost certainly a bad head gasket if your engine is over 100k miles. Its double trouble with these engines, easy to overheat them and very easy to blow a headgasket even after one overheat.

The point of the legend isn't reliability, its comfort and performance in a nice well put together package that looks great. If you don't want to spend 1,000-1500 dollars a year in maintenance, look elsewhere. Thats what I did and its hard to look back.
 
Thanks for such a quick reply! Much appreciated!

maintainence i can handle (with a track civic and an unruly 4x4, you learn to live with it)...I think if it was something that had a definite fix...ie spend 1-1.5k and it wouldn't happen again, then thats one thing...but if it's going to be a recurring issue then i might have to leave it.

In saying that, I'll only be doing 10-15k miles per year...and I wont be keeping it for more than a couple of years...so if I can get one with around 80k miles on it should probably last for 3-4yrs to come...
 
The issue of blown head gaskets in most cars is generally caused by these reasons:

(1) Walking. The heads walk on the gasket as they expand and contract with heating and cooling. The greater the heat expansion co-efficient between the block and head, the sooner this happens and the more the walking occurs. This is an engineering and metalurgy issue that the owner has no control over.

(2) Electrolysis. When there are any conductive minerals in the antifreeze and water mixture , electrolysis occurs. Tthe aluminum is an electically hotter metal than iron. The electrons leave the aluminum and travel through the antifreeze to the iron. This leaves small pinholes in the areas exposed to the antifreeze mixture which eventually allow a channel for exhaust gasses to leak from the cylinders to the water jacket. This issue can be minimized by using the right antifreeze, and changinging it yearly. Use of distilled or purified water helps slow the process by removing minerals that can conduct electrons. Using tap water that is high in minerals accelerates the process. Hence, someone who uses tap water that is high in minerals to refill their radiator might see a BHG caused by electrolysis even though they do a good job of never allowing the car to overheat.

(3) Overheating. I believe this is the most common cause. ALL Acura Legends fall prey to the cracked radiator failure. When this is not caught early on, the fluid level lowers and air collects in the high points in the heads. The lack of fluid causes the heads to overheat. This in turn causes the temper of the aluminum to change and the heads begin to warp. This causes a BHG. Other reasons for overheating are many but the 2nd most common cause is not understanding the chemistry behind antifreeze. Simply put, pure antifreeze transfers heat slower than water. But, pure water freezes at a higher temperature and boils at a lower temperature than a mixture of water and antifreeze. Hence we add antifreeze to provide safety from boil-overs and freezing. However there is a caveat, a mixture of antifreeze and water where the antifreeze is greater than 50% will cause the car to overheat. When you add antifreeze, NEVER add more than to make a 50/50 mix. Get a cheap $4 plastic tester from your parts store and check the mixture before you add fluid. If the mix is at 50/50 then add more 50/50. If some of the water has evaporated and the mixture has more antifreeze, add a little distilled water. If there is too much water, add just antifreeze. And, if the mixture is old or screwed up badly, drain the engine and refill it with 50/50, being sure to follow proper bleeding procedures.

None of these will guarantee against a BHG, but if they are followed when the car is new and all through it's life, there is a lessor chance of developing a BHG than if they are not followed. When I owned a 6 cyl jeep many years ago I was not careful with the antifreeze mixture. The mixture was much more antifreeze than 50/50, and the engine always ran hot. Eventually it developed a BHG, although it was so small it didn't affect driving. Then the radiator went bad and I took it to a shop to be rodded out and a new top tank put on. I asked about some of the small deposits in it. The guy who had been in that industry for years told me that even though the radiator had been kept clean, the use of tap water had leached chemicals out of the solder and that is what I was seeing, that if I used a 50/50 mix w/ distilled water the problem would slow. The small BHG added acid to the mixture which just made the situation worse. I followed his instructions and not only did the build up stop, but with a 50/50 mixyure the car ran about 1/4 cooler on the gauge during long freeway drives or up long grades.

So here is what you can do. Get a tester and when the car is COLD check the radiator fluid level with the cap off. It should be full to the very top. Check the fluid with the tester, is it 50/50? If not have the fluid changed and make it so. Be sure to follow proper bleeding procedure, also, remember that antifreeze is extremely poisonous. Just ingesting a little can kill you in a slow painful death as the crystals grow inside your body and puncture your kidneys. Literally a cat stepping in it and licking its paw is enough to kill the cat. Also inspect the radiator cap. How old is it? If the rubber showing signs of wear? Get a new cap to replace it as the cap has a valve in it that allows air to go out and fluid to be drawn back in. If you add fluid, squeeze the top hose to the radiator a little. Does air come out? If so follow proper bleeding procedures to bring the fluid up to the top of the radiator neck. And, if you add fluid, check it again in a week when it is cold. Keeping checking every week until it doesn't need fluid, then check it when you the other fluids or change the oil.
 
How the bhg occurs:

Dethred said:
-Not limited to either engine, or country spec.

-Yes, replacing an engine can give you the same problem later. Most people have had success with replacing their headgaskets and never having to do them again. I am sure a few have had problems due to improper install, more overheating, or not getting the heads resurfaced.

-It will get every engine eventually, usually between 150-190k miles it will get one even with little or no overheating. One guy on here that swears by Honda anti-freeze got one at 60k miles.

-It has not been 100% determined where the design flaw is, but cylinders 5 and/or 6 are usually the culprits. While the flaw hasn't been identified, it is common knowledge that there is one there.

-Its more of a when, than if. I remember when I was flyin' high proud that I was one of the few that hadn't gotten a bad head gasket at around 170k miles. By 180k miles I had my car apart in the garage with the heads at the machine shop. People will tell you that its a matter of not letting your car overheat, but that is 99.9% impossible. Every car will overheat at one point or another, even if you replace everything in the cooling system on a yearly basis.

The point is, these cars will overheat with a tiny bit of air in the system. Its a matter of 1-2 Fluid ounces of anti-freeze being replaced by air and the car will overheat, then its almost certainly a bad head gasket if your engine is over 100k miles. Its double trouble with these engines, easy to overheat them and very easy to blow a headgasket even after one overheat.

The point of the legend isn't reliability, its comfort and performance in a nice well put together package that looks great. If you don't want to spend 1,000-1500 dollars a year in maintenance, look elsewhere. Thats what I did and its hard to look back.
My take on this issue, is that there is no eng head design flaw. Mine blew at 220k miles, and it was not because of the number of miles. You are correct, if one of a number of things go bad in ANY cooling sys, the eng will overheat. The issue that everyone's overlooking is HOW LONG is the eng allowed to overheat? If its noticed and the eng is turned off immediately, it won't warp the head, which leads to the blown hg. If it overheats and continuously driven for a period of time, bhg's and warped heads will most certainly occur. When air gets in the sys, its because of a leak in the cooling sys. The Legend does have a serious fault and that is the plastic radiator. I strongly recommend that it be replaced with a metal one, but murphy's law says that radiators, heater cores, coolant hoses, water pumps and thermostats do and will go bad at one time or another. The key is to ALWAYS keep and eye on the temp needle, if overheating occurs IMMEDIATELY shut off the eng and fix the problem BEFORE it turns into a bhg.
The legend is a great car, but is unforgiving if its allowed to overheat for any appreciable amount of time.

BHGGUY
 
BHGGUY said:
My take on this issue, is that there is no eng head design flaw. Mine blew at 220k miles, and it was not because of the number of miles. You are correct, if one of a number of things go bad in ANY cooling sys, the eng will overheat. The issue that everyone's overlooking is HOW LONG is the eng allowed to overheat? If its noticed and the eng is turned off immediately, it won't warp the head, which leads to the blown hg. If it overheats and continuously driven for a period of time, bhg's and warped heads will most certainly occur. When air gets in the sys, its because of a leak in the cooling sys. The Legend does have a serious fault and that is the plastic radiator. I strongly recommend that it be replaced with a metal one, but murphy's law says that radiators, heater cores, coolant hoses, water pumps and thermostats do and will go bad at one time or another. The key is to ALWAYS keep and eye on the temp needle, if overheating occurs IMMEDIATELY shut off the eng and fix the problem BEFORE it turns into a bhg.
The legend is a great car, but is unforgiving if its allowed to overheat for any appreciable amount of time.

BHGGUY
This is a very interesting statement you made, BHGGUY. I have a situation occur this weekend which I'd like your opinion on.

* My girlfriend was driving my car yesterday afternoon and was parking the car in SF when she noticed the heat at H. Being pretty smart, she immediately flipped the heater onto high and being lucky she was able to park immediately.

* Slightly hung over, I looked over the car this morning and found the coolant level to be low. After refilling the coolant and allowing the car to heat up, I found the problem was a leaky radiator cap.

* My theory is that the car was overheating b/c the coolant level dropped to a level where it was no longer efficient at low speeds. At high speeds (I use this as my commuter car), this isn't an issue. Tracing back her driving, I estimate that AT MOST the car was being driven in an overheated state for <5 minutes (at <20MPH).

* Even though I do remember taking a look at the radiator cap and commenting to myself that the gasket looked a bit odd, I don't believe the engine overheated on the prior owner because a) she did 95% hwy speed commuting with the car, b) she had an overzealous mechanic and would take the car in quite often, and c) the car passed smog a week ago with very low hydrocarbon PPMs so it's not burning coolant.

* I have since replaced the radiator cap (with a Kragen one and will buy an Acura one as soon as I can get to the dealership) and refilled the coolant. After 100 mi of driving today (both puttering around the city and on the highway), the needle hasn't budged from its normal position at just below the halfway mark.

Q: Given your experience, do you think I'm going to see a BHG in the near future (<10K mi) because of 5 minutes of low speed driving in an overheated state?

I know there are people on this forum who will tell me to buy a JDM engine now or part the car out and be done with it but I'd like all of your opinions anyway. Given the car has only 116K mi and I just bought this car 2 weeks ago, I'm not eager to buy a JDM engine just yet. Honestly, if I did have BHG, I'd just drive this car into the ground anyway before buying another engine.

Plus, with all the Legends being driven around in NoCal (there are 5 in my apt complex alone), I have to imagine that these cars aren't blowing up as often as people say they do on this forum.

Thanks in advance for your advice.
-g
 
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check closely for a cracked radiator. See if you have any antifeeze deposits on the top tank. My brother had about the same experience with his 1995 L and it is still going without developing a BHG.
 
You should be fine. Just check the coolant level every morning for the next few days.
 
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BHGGUY said:
My take on this issue, is that there is no eng head design flaw. Mine blew at 220k miles, and it was not because of the number of miles. You are correct, if one of a number of things go bad in ANY cooling sys, the eng will overheat. The issue that everyone's overlooking is HOW LONG is the eng allowed to overheat? If its noticed and the eng is turned off immediately, it won't warp the head, which leads to the blown hg. If it overheats and continuously driven for a period of time, bhg's and warped heads will most certainly occur. When air gets in the sys, its because of a leak in the cooling sys. The Legend does have a serious fault and that is the plastic radiator. I strongly recommend that it be replaced with a metal one, but murphy's law says that radiators, heater cores, coolant hoses, water pumps and thermostats do and will go bad at one time or another. The key is to ALWAYS keep and eye on the temp needle, if overheating occurs IMMEDIATELY shut off the eng and fix the problem BEFORE it turns into a bhg.
The legend is a great car, but is unforgiving if its allowed to overheat for any appreciable amount of time.

BHGGUY
When almost every engine gets a headgasket failure from minor overheating there is a design flaw. No "if" "ands" or "buts" about it, most cars don't have this problem. The engine overheats with a few fluid ounces of anti-freeze missing, something that most engines avoid even with tons of anti-freeze missing. The fact that one overheat can cause a bad head gasket is not normal. The fact that the most failures are in the rear two cylinders is even more telling.

To the guy above, if you car went up in the red once you're in a crap load of trouble. Start saving your money.
 
How to keep cooling fan on all the time?

Hi everyone!
This is a great forum. I have the similar problem as many other readers. The temp gauge goes all the way to HOT and then drops to normal on the highway.
While idling the temp gauge goes up to HOT, then the fan comes on, but then it stops before the temp gauge goes back to normal. I turn off the engine the fan works normally.
This is the reason I would like to find out if there is a way to bypass the fan controls and make the fan work all the time when the ignition is in the III , basically when I start the engine I want at least one of the fans to come on.
Even if this is possible, will there be any counter-effects?
Thank you.
 
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