[FF Drifter]

The VEs were okay motors, the VTC was the real problematic part. Oil often didn't make it all the way up to the VTC system, so they'd click and clatter over time, especially if an oil change is missed. The newer VQs have much better CVTC. As far as I'm concerned: VQ = :bowdown:

 

[Harrison]

im proud that u guys know ur nissans. VG, VE, and VQ, people can be easily confused. its nice to see some other nissan enthusaists here. but i guess we gotta keep it on the DL. since after all, it is a legend site.

 

[FF Drifter]

Yeah I'm thinkin' about changing my sig soon hahah I already had it "forced" off on some other Honda forums a while back. Insecure little *****es....

 

[TheLegend420]

Max gets dusted!

I'm not gonna knock the Maxima, it is what it is, a pretty-damn-good automobile with a Japanese V6-----BUT ITS NOT A LEGEND, and truthfully, it is not going to beat one! (shouldn't beat one anyway)

I've driven only three Maxs in my life, a '89, '95, and a '98. The '89 will get killed by ANY YEAR Legend, starting with the '86 Legend sedan on up to the Gen2. The '95 is a different story. It will barely-but-reliably defeat the Gen1 Legend, but the Gen2 still takes it. Same for the '98.
I'm not sure of the times on the Max, but to me it seemed that the '95 model year was faster than the '98, but the '98 I drove had 17-inch wheels.

All-in-all, the Maxima is a very good car, reliable, fast-ish, roomy (4doors), etc, etc. Its just not going to beat a Legend, either in speed or reliability. It seemed that the Nissan 3.0L six was a good motor, just not up to racing a Legend, it seemed to have no top end, kinda like a Pontiac GTP.

THE BIG QUESTION I HAVE IS: IS THAT 3.0L V6 THE SAME MOTOR NUMBER AS IN THE NON-TURBO 300Z, AND IF SO, WILL THE TWIN-TURBS FROM THE 300ZX APPLY TO THE MAX,

I think a 300hp '95 Maxima will trouble the 'brand-new' 265hp Maxima.

But then again, the 260hp 3.2TL Type S (0-60 5.7 Manual, 6.3 Auto) will do some thangs to the new Maxima! Same for the new Altima (5.8 with the Manual)or its Infiniti twin, the J35 I think its called.

Nissans are no Hondas, but they do well for themselves anyway.

 

[WhiteLegend]

im proud that u guys know ur nissans. VG, VE, and VQ, people can be easily confused. its nice to see some other nissan enthusaists here. but i guess we gotta keep it on the DL. since after all, it is a legend site.

I used to own a 93 SE with the VE

 

[B+O]

i used to whip a teachers 93 Max SE, i believe it may have been a 94. but what i can say is that...it had nothing on my Type I. it was PUNCHY hell it was nice, VERY nice, but it would not take out my legend. in a seat-of-the-pants feeling i had my friends in to see (people in my old HS used to hate on the legend and said a Max 92-94 would smash me so i took them to validate any claims) they said DAMN when VIS flipped over in my legend but were impressed with the SE's lowend but they said "It dies up top". i'd put money on the Legend to win.

i got to drive a 95 but that was before i drove the 94-ish, and i was impressed but in remembering the feeling...it wasn't too great. i know i sound biased but the max would get beat, but barely. Max 5spd 95-98(?) is very quick and nothing short of a 91 L 5 spd coupe or a Type II 6 spd (sedan or coupe) will beat one. i say 91 5 spd coupe because of shorter drive gears and light weight (3370lbs-3380lbs if im not mistaken)

 

[WhiteLegend]

i used to whip a teachers 93 Max SE, i believe it may have been a 94. but what i can say is that...it had nothing on my Type I. it was PUNCHY hell it was nice, VERY nice, but it would not take out my legend. in a seat-of-the-pants feeling i had my friends in to see (people in my old HS used to hate on the legend and said a Max 92-94 would smash me so i took them to validate any claims) they said DAMN when VIS flipped over in my legend but were impressed with the SE's lowend but they said "It dies up top". i'd put money on the Legend to win.

i got to drive a 95 but that was before i drove the 94-ish, and i was impressed but in remembering the feeling...it wasn't too great. i know i sound biased but the max would get beat, but barely. Max 5spd 95-98(?) is very quick and nothing short of a 91 L 5 spd coupe or a Type II 6 spd (sedan or coupe) will beat one. i say 91 5 spd coupe because of shorter drive gears and light weight (3370lbs-3380lbs if im not mistaken)

I doubt it was a SE? Because the 92-94 SEs with the VE engines are fast in stock form, not great, but neither is the legend. But maximas can be made very fast, can't say the same for legends.

 

[fLoRiDiAnLeGeNd]

but legends look a hella a lot better... ;-)

 

[acattack]

I have to disagree on the Legends can't be made fast comment......

 

[FF Drifter]

Re: Max gets dusted!

All-in-all, the Maxima is a very good car, reliable, fast-ish, roomy (4doors), etc, etc. Its just not going to beat a Legend, either in speed or reliability. It seemed that the Nissan 3.0L six was a good motor, just not up to racing a Legend, it seemed to have no top end, kinda like a Pontiac GTP.

THE BIG QUESTION I HAVE IS: IS THAT 3.0L V6 THE SAME MOTOR NUMBER AS IN THE NON-TURBO 300Z, AND IF SO, WILL THE TWIN-TURBS FROM THE 300ZX APPLY TO THE MAX,

I think a 300hp '95 Maxima will trouble the 'brand-new' 265hp Maxima.

But then again, the 260hp 3.2TL Type S (0-60 5.7 Manual, 6.3 Auto) will do some thangs to the new Maxima! Same for the new Altima (5.8 with the Manual)or its Infiniti twin, the J35 I think its called.

Nissans are no Hondas, but they do well for themselves anyway.

The n/a 300ZX had a VG motor. Maximas are known for their VEs and VQs. Somewhat related in design, but they are different motors.

The Altima was NOT The Infiniti J30. The Altima was a FWD car based loosely on the Nissan Bluebird at first, but then became it's own lopey car *US only*. The Infiniti J30 was the Nissan Leopard... a RWD four-door based on the 300ZX (hence it had the 300ZX VG30E motor). Man why does everyone think the Altima and J30 were the same? They were both ugly but don't confuse 'em!!!

This is gonna be really controversial, but IMO, the Nissan VQ > Honda C-series. Yeah I own a Legend, and yes I've beaten on Maximas before *but I'm stick vs. auto* but the VQ is now more refined and tuned than the aging C-series. Although the C motors have powered Legends and NSXs... very high-end premium cars...the VQ is now the top Japanese motor there is. The VQ has EVERYTHING and making 280hp/280lb/ft of n/a power is very common.

I've always felt Nissan motors are better than Honda motors... RB, VG, VQ, SR, etc. I am no expert on Hondas, but I still feel Honda's main forte was its uncanny ability to bring race-bred technology *VTEC, double-wishbone at all four corners, etc* to normal everday cars. However, since Mr. Honda has left us... Honda has gone astray from that dream.

 

[B+O]

i too think the VQ seriously might be one of the best engines to come out of Japan. i really like the fact that nissan put so much effort into that thing after they realized its potential. Honda could have been cool but they dropped the C and are now concentrating on the J. the J has potential too, and i could see it hangin with a VQ but thats if honda would get their NA ONLY minds out of there butts and try using some FI to help develope the internals of the engine so it can be a real contender. the VG never really impressed me, it is too hard to wring any substantial amounts of horse power from it. RB of course is no contest...thats the end all holy grail of engines as it is able to withstand 3-400hp/liter reliably thats the type of things i like to see. SR is another one, its a race engine one the street. that is its most alluring aspect i like the SR20 and respect it. most of hondas engines are detuned MECHANICALLY, like the C series its clock is WHOA AMAZING it is VERY STRONG...stonger than the VG and maybe as strong as the 2JZ, flex wise, but im skeptical of rods and pistons. believe it or not the Cseries engine was designed for Turbocharging. 6 bolt main bearings high capacity cooling (block) well thought out oil passages. lovely thing the C-series was. but the VQ is newer and more refined.

 

[FF Drifter]

The problem with the J-motors is that I see them as being economically minded... a 60 degree V6 tends to be for compact reasons, or perhaps better gas mileage... if Honda would re-hash the C-series engines to all have DOHC iVTEC or something along the lines of that, then that'd be a big help. Honda I know has trouble with bringin' a V8 or large displacement motor into their cars. They make great four-cylinders, but they've really gotta step it up if they intend to keep up with other car makers. I mean, Toyota has been doin' V8s and I6s for a while, Nissan's VK is almost VQ in abilities, but Honda is still struggling with the transverse V6 J-motors.

Heck, Honda is even on the verge of making a truck now. If Honda could use some of that drivetrain engineering to make a proper AWD, or an upscale V8, then they'd be headed in the right direction.

 

[B+O]

i agree with you there, honda does have a VERY hard time of trying to let go and design a V8 for street use. But i have to agree with them. i my self think that a V8 is over kill. i mean its nice to have but when your car weighs 3500lbs a well designed V6 is MORE than adequate. Take the VQ it puts out as much power as a V8 (maybe not Infiniti's V8) but a V8 in general it can hang with. if honda made a 7 series/Sclass sized car then i would agree V8. Honda did good with Acura in its first years but after that...it all faded away. i prefer a high power 6 over a mediocre 8 (im biased LOL). Wierd thing is, 60 degree engines tend to be more balanced in higher rpms. I think that may have been hondas main goal but you are right a 60 degree is MUCH narrower.

one question, what is the angle of the VG, i have wondered for a while, i was looking at one a while back and to my eye it looked to be about 75 degrees, but i read somewhere that its 90 then again i read some where else its a 60 degree.

 

[FF Drifter]

I think the VG was a 90 degree. I've yet to see Nissan make some kind of economy-minded V6. The VQ is very loosely VG-based, and it's a 90 degree.

You're right about a V8 bein' a bit much ~ but consider this: the Legend/RL is Honda's flagship, yet it is only competitive with the 2nd tier of other Luxury companies... ie the Lexus GS, the Infiniti M, the BMW 5-series, etc. (let's not count the NSX, which carves out a very unique niche of its own). But if Honda wants to move upmarket to take on the bigger dogs... Lexus LS, Infiniti Q, BMW 7-series, etc. then they've gotta offer something a little more prestigious.

I say Honda needs to move upmarket with the Legend because the TL/CL are already stepping all over the RL's toes. Few people even get RLs now because the TL offers almost everything the RL does, minus a couple more luxury amenities and a heavier curb weight. The RL has lost its identity *shoot, plenty people on this very forum think the Legend is now called 3.2TL* and Honda needs to set it apart again, kinda like what Nissan has done to the Altima/Maxima. Let's not bust an Audi *the new A8 looks like an fat A6, yet costs twice as much =(

 

[B+O]

Originally posted by FF Drifter
*the new A8 looks like an fat A6, yet costs twice as much =(*

:werd:

Are you sure, i know you know your Nissan engines but i think the VQ is 60 degree. At least the one in the Gloria and the Pathfinder is. i think nissan found out too that 90degree engines are not that balanced. i had to make sure i remembered what was the original VQ bank angle.

courtesy of Courtesy Nissan:
Name
VQ35

Cam Design
DOHC

Orientation
Transverse

Cylinders / Configuration
60�‹ V6

Block / Head Composition
Aluminum / aluminum

Displacement (liters)
3.5L (3,498cc)

Displacement (cubic inches)
214.0

Horsepower
265

Torque (lb/ft)
255

Bore & Stroke (mm)
95.5 x 81.4

Compression Ratio 1)
10.3

Spark Plugs
Double-tipped platinum

Maximum Engine Speed
6,600 rpm

again not tryin to floor you but Gloria i think Nissan did the 60 degree to save room for TurboChargers which it plans on running in the R35 skyline (if its not already out yet) the VQ is AWESOME, thinking about it i think it could be equal with the RB. but we'll see. this is the reason i think honda should turbo the J so they can find WHERE its thermal weaknesses are and try to reengineer it. that would be so nnice a J35 with TT

 

[B+O]

with the Legend being moved up scale, i really dont think that was the legends purpose to begin with...the KA3/5 86-90 legend, was marketed to go against the E30 BMW. the KA7/8 91-95, was marketed at the 5 series hence its sporting nature adn the G1's sporting nature. seriously i think Acura went the wrong way with the Vigor. the Vigor could have been that V8 upscale car, im guessing could've been called the Opula (opulence...get it?) that could have been the fighter to the LS and the 7 but they tried to bring the Legend up to another level and in doing so messed up the car, hence Honda trying to lower its classification back to the 5 series level with possible AWD this time its very possible.

 

[FF Drifter]

Wasn't the Vigor always supposed to be an underdog to the Legend though? Y'know, inline five vs vee six, etc. I understand the first Legends were like entry level luxury, the second-gens went for mid tier. But with the TL now taking its place, the RL/Legend has a chance to move up. AWD is a big step in that direction. That's the way I see it, anyways.

 

[B+O]

Digging up info on the J and VQ engines. it seems as though the J has as much if not more potential than the VQ the VQ won many awards in a row but the J has been right there along with it in the background.

one thing that surprised me was this. Honda has intentionally impeeded its exhaust flow in order to stifle the CL-S and TL-S, pinched pipes and 180 degree turns are under the cars body.

quoted from review of CL-S 6spd
"The scary part about the J32A2 is that it isn't even close to being near its maximum. With simple exhaust changes, particularly to the somewhat convoluted exhaust header merge, gains of over 30 hp are common. A 300 hp J32? You betcha!"

thats very nice to know. Dyno chart?

240 horsepower and 205 lbft of torque at the wheels. very nice indeed for just intake and exhaust mods. this is a choked engine (EDITED: sorry this Dyno is from a stock CL-S)

350Z stock dyno graph

this thing has got the torque...as well it should with 3.5 litres of engine. very cool. Type S J35? that would be a VERY close call i wonder what it could do...hence my post in the General Discussion area. "J35 in KA7/8"

this is excellent.

 

[FF Drifter]

Hmm I've never seen one of these. Yeah ~ it certainly does seem like a very powerful torquey motor. The torque curve is FLAT. Also, I notice the VTEC change over seems to happen very low. Unlike a Civic or S2000 where the car gets tinny around 6500 ~ 7000rpm, the J32 seems to kick around four grand. *evil laugh* excellent.

However, that leads me to wonder WHY Honda never fully unleashed their beast?