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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Just wanted to voice some of the issues that have been going on between myself and PPP in case any of you are thinking about doing the stage 2 chip.

As some of you probably know from reading previous posts, my ECU was not working properly after I got it. So I shipping my package back to them about 2 weeks ago. They were fairly prompt when they first got my package to do the Stage II upgrade, however when they got it a 2nd time to 'fix' it, the support crumbled.

Willie did phone me every once in a while to keep me updated on what was going on, and finally yesterday he left a message saying the chip was complete and that he would express mail it out either yesterday or today so that I would have it by the weekend. He also noted that he would be including an invoice for the technicians time to repair the chip and for 'technical support'.

So my first feeling was great, the chip is finished, I'll get to use the car again. Next, I started to get concerned about these 'charges' for fixing an ECU that never worked in the first place. I could see a small fee possibly for looking over it, and I would've paid that to see my car working again, however I today I received a disturbing email.

He informed me today that he shipped my ECU via UPS GROUND C.O.D. (Cash on delivery) for $160.

I immediately called him, and of course, no answer. I am rather enraged about this email and I don't know what my intentions are when this package arrivies (ie. accept it or not)

I just wanted to bring this information to the forum, so for those that are in the process or are considering it, you are warned. Your transaction may be just fine and everything will work great, but if you have to send it in, this could happen to you.

I would like to hear some feedback from other members as to what I should do about this? I am rather upset right now, and I don't know if I will accept this package when it arrives, probably in a week from now. About a week ago, I spoke with him personally and we spoke about charges, and he didn't mention anything at all. Bringing this to the table at the last minute, after it has been shipped if very unprofessional.

Please, any feedback or suggestions would be helpful.

Thanks guys.

-Dave
 

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When I talked to Willie about my problem with the chip, he also questioned whether or not it was my ECU. Why in the HELL would we send him a bad ECU to do a performance upgrade on? That's like taking a car that doesn't run and installing an aftermarket exhaust on it!!! Does that make any kind of sense???? Fortunately, when I put my stock chip back in, everything went back to normal.

I can't believe he charged you to fix something that he broke. Yeah, I know it's hard to prove exactly when the ECU broke, but that should be a mute point. Customer service dictates he should fix it. When it left your hands, it was working and when it returned, it didn't work.

Dave, I probably would refuse shipment and see if you can buy another ECU. There has to be one floating around out there for your vehicle (junk yards, someone has a spare, etc). Or email him back and threaten to report him to the BBB (Better Business Bureau).

One more thing, if you paid for the chip w/a credit card, you have some protection there. That $250 is not only for the chip, but PPP's labor to install it, and that's where they failed. You can call your credit card company and find out what they can do.

Did you write down your ECU part #? Post it on here. Someone has got to have a spare somewhere. Email EK...he had a friend that just totaled his Legend.

Also, anyone here really know Willie and can call him about this? From all the business this forum has given him, it seems like he wouldn't be picky about this. Didn't this latest group buy generate over 50 buyers?

Sorry so long...this kinda stuff just gets me pissed!
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Here is the model # off of my ECU: 37820-PX9-A04

I made sure to write it down and all other information on the ECU before I shipped it away.

I think the point is clear here - I sent out the ECU, when I got it back, it didn't work. It's just like buying ANYTHING, if you buy it, and it doesn't work, then you return it for a new one. In my case, I return it for a repair - free of charge.

Since he made the unprofessional move (one of many) of shipping it out via UPS ground, I still have probably a whole week before I have to decide what to do about the shipment. I emailed and phoned him right after I received the email, and I still haven't heard back yet. I will make it a point to contact him before the shipment arrives, and I will keep everyone here posted on the status of this unfortunate situation.

To answer your question about payment, yes, I did pay with a credit card, however I already paid the bill for it. Remember, I got the ECU back in the first week of Februrary, and he charged my card before they did work on the chip, which was at the end of January. I don't know if I can do anything now that the bill has already been paid? I'll worry about that situation when the time arrives, as I'm more interested as to what he's going to do about getting out of this hole he has dug for himself.
 

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This saddens me....

I wish I had read this post earlier... I just received my upgraded ECU today from UPS. I was rather pissed at the fact that I had to pay an addition $113.00 in duties because Willie decided to declare the value of the package as the original $250.00 plus the shipping I had pre-paid for!!! With the exchange and all the brokerage fee crap UPS pulls when things cross the border, it almost worked out to the same as if I were to get the upgrade done somewhere in Canada. That's beside the point. My issue is that since my car is in storage, I won't be able to tell if the chip is defective or not until Spring. By this time, Willie might say that it's been too long since the upgrade and he can't help me.

I think now that I've read the last two posts, I'll take my car for a ride tomorrow. What should I look for to know weather or not my ECU is functioning properly???

SaGe69
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Another update here folks - I just received this reply from Wille after I emailed him explaining how unprofessional he was being and to call me ASAP. He never called, however he did leave me this short email just a short while ago. This is absolutely ridiculous. What am I supposed to do ???

This was the message I sent him:

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Wille,

I left you a message immedately after I received this email. What you are doing is HIGHLY unprofessional and I will not stand for this. We spoke last week and you said there would be no charge for this repair and you would be picking up the shipping to send it back to me. I offered to pay for the Express Mail shipping, however you said you would take care of the charge. I explained to you that I followed the directions exactly as they were written
in the documentation sent to me on how to remove and install the ECU. I also examined the ECU myself and noted the most likely cause of the error, the trace that was lifted up off the circuit board. As a business owner, I'm sure you are aware that if one of your products doesn't work when the customer receives it, it is your job to fix what is wrong without charge.
The product NEVER worked. Yesterday, I received a voice message from you stating that you would ship out the package either Thursday or Friday via USPS Express Mail and include an invoice for this service. I was shocked at this statement, but decided to deal with it as soon as I received the chip and tested to make sure it worked. You never mentioned there would be a
charge before this. Today, I received an email from you stating that you shipped the package out via UPS Ground, and inserted a C.O.D. charge for $160. Why did you ship UPS Ground and why did you ship COD? You haven't told me in detail what these charges mean and exactly why I'm getting charged for this, as you told me earlier I wouldn't be. How am I supposed to accept
this package when you are going against everything that you've mentioned to me before on the phone and via email, and of all things, shipping it out via ground and putting a COD charge on it. I left my number in the voice mail, and I'm leaving it again here, 610-xxx-xxxx. I expect a prompt call explaining all of your actions, as this is VERY unprofessional and frowned upon. What you are doing is wrong, and if you do not have a fast resolution
for all of this, then I am going to request a refund on everything that I have been charged for, and my ECU returned (in working condition) in stock form. I hope I have made my point clear and to the point. You have been professional in the past with me, and I hope you take the necessary professional steps to fix this problem, as I do not want to take this situation any further.

Sincerely,

David Mennerich
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This is his reply:
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David,

Unfortunately I had to pay the technician for doing the repairs to your ECU out of my pocket. I also got my phone bill and review the total minutes spent on the phone with you. It totalled over an hour in phone conversation.


Thanks,
Willie
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Can you believe this reply? He is charging me because he had to pay out of his own pocket to pay the technician for the repair. Of course he has to pay out of his own pocket, his product didn't work! One hour of phone conversation ??? You've got to be kidding me, I'll gladly pay the 60 min * 10 cent /min = $6 charge if he's that cheap as a business owner to afford this.

Does anyone know what steps I should take next?? If he's afraid to call me and has to insist on emails to communicate to me, and not even explaing himself, what should I do ??

Thanks for all the help/feedback.

-Dave
 

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First off, I think it doesn't matter that you already paid your credit card bill. This is recent enough for them to get involved. I can't believe the crap he is trying to pull. Do you know any lawyers? Maybe one can give him a call or send him a letter to review w/Willie his legal responsibilities as a business owner (or one who represents the business). If you knew beforehand that he was going to charge you, you would have just taken the ECU somewhere locally. Willie needs to take a few customer service classes to learn how to deal with the public. Customer is always right!!!

I'm not sure what the next step is though. You can call your local Better Business Bureau and I'm sure they can tell you what to do before a formal complaint is filed. Also, you need to read up on the latest Interstate Commerce Laws. I'm not sure where to find those, but I think the BBB, credit card company, lawyer, etc. should know.
 

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Wow, Dave I dont even know what to tell you. This is so unfortunate. I wonder if Willie is pissed off because so few participated in the GB. So far it seems cars with TCS doesnt work well with the chip, does anyone else have this problem with TCS?

Did you use Amex? I use Amex whenever I can, they have the best protection against cases like this. If you bought this with AMEX, I think you can file a claim that he won't accept returns and get your full amount back (up to $300 per item and up to $1,000 annually). Then just pay for the COD and swallow the lost :(

Hopefully everything works out...
 

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Let me say this, Wille's customer service was all that before hand :( but after I got the chip back the service went south. I had a couple of questions but he was nowhere to be found. I can say this though, I'm very satisfied with performance of the chip. And If you don't know, I drive a 94 GS 6 Speed and yes it's TCS equipped. :cool:

One...

Fut
 

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Like Fut, I have a 94 GS 6 spd. with the Stage II chip. I put it in about a year ago as part of the group buy and all my dealings with Willie were cordial. The chip worked fine and he even called me twice afterwards to be sure I was satisfied. I don't know whats gone wrong here and I agree with Dave that he should cover it out of his own pocket. I would like to think this is a one-time anomaly. We are a community and have expressed our clout as a community in group buys and such before and will do so again. I would hope that this can be resolved.
 

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i cant believe little willy wants u to pay for fixing a ECu he messed up. then wants you to pay for his phone bill haha what a tool. Im going to call him every day and talk to him for as long as i can see how he likes his phone bill after that. i didnt order one but this still makes me very mad. im in the process of returning a falty koni shock stillen sent me and if they pulled this crap i would be very very mad. i hope it works out good peace
 

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Dave,


Even if you have paid the bill you still have the right to dispute it. Usually you are allotted 2-3 months depending on which credit card you use. I always use AMEX to buy stuff online or wherever b/c they have the best poicies to protect their customers.

But do call your c/c company and tell them you want to dispute the charge. They should allow you to. However if you used a VISA/MC then it could get a bit tricky b/c VISA/MC usually favors the merchants more than the cardmembers. I know this though working at a publishing company and that whenever customers dispute charges its always easy to prove to them that they were properly charged whereas AMEX was a ***** and they always seem to require more "proof" of charges then VISA/AMEX requires i.e. signature or shipping receipt etc.




-jon
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Hey Jon, I used a GM Mastercard for this purchase, and I spoke with their customer service department today. The dispute department is open M-Sat, so I'm going to give them a call first thing tomorrow morning. The customer service representative said that I have a valid dispute and they should be able to work with it. I'll keep you all updated as things happen.

On another note: I filed a claim with the BBB and I believe they will try and contact Willie as well. I hope that the steps I'm taking will make him realize that he make a mistake here, and will promptly correct the situation.

I just want my ECU back :(

Thanks for the help everyone!

-Dave
 

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Ok thats cool Dave,


My suggestion is try to work out an equitable agreement without leaving a sour taste in your mouth. Tell Willie theres a lot of ppl who would like to do chip upgrades but if they continue to give bad service etc then they will lose consumer confidence within the Legend community. Its quite scary to know this sort of stuff can happen and makes me think twice of doing a Chip upgrade but nonetheless its good that you are making an effort to inform us of everything thats going on.

On a side note: Do get an AMEX card =) great service and theres always some1 there to handle claims etc no matter what the time is.
 

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i just got an email saying they shipped out my chip. if i run into the same problems, i might seek legal action. most of my friends are lawyers and will jump on this.
let's see what happens.

-j
 

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this guy bytes

ok call your CC company and tell the m you want them to dispute the charge. contact the better buisness berou and file a complaint and tell the loser that your lawyer will be in contact as will the better buisness bearu and you CC companys collection service. this should show him the error of his ways.
He needs to learn his lesson. You mess with one legend you mess with them all.
Adam
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Just an update:

I've tried calling and emailing Willie, and I haven't received any responses. I spoke with the BBB today, and they received my complaint that I filed over the weekend. They are mailling out their packet with the complaint information tomorrow. I also filed a claim with my CC company. I don't know how long these processes take, but it has begun.

I still have my ECU package coming that is COD for $160, and I still don't know what to do. Given these conditions, what do you all suggest? If I refuse this package, do you think I'll ever see my ECU again? I have some ideas in mind as to what I could do, but I'd like to keep everything legal here.

Thanks for the help everyone.

-Dave
 

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pay for the cod with you CC and then call the credit card company and tell them you didn't get what you paid for
Adam
 

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My expereinces...

Hi guys,

Just got back from Cancun and was happy to find my ECU waiting on my desk at the office. I left it on Sunday at a KINKO's FEDex drop box to which the pickup was last monday. It was sent express and arrived tuesday at 10am to PPP. (I sent it from Canada). I found out that it arrived back to the office on Thursday! I told Willie to charge me for Expedited UPS.. but then asked him to upgrade it to Express and charge my VISA the difference. He tried to charge it, but since Iwas in Mexico.. VISA froze my card over the week because they thought someone stole it and was using it in Mexico. My card didn't work for Willie yet he still shipped it Express. I installed the chip and it works perfect! I can really feel a huge difference in performance and everything seems working normal. My car is a 95 6-speed with TCS.

I called Willie to let him know I recieved it and give him another VISA # to charge the Express difference. He was surprised I even called him to pay for the difference thinking I would stiff him on it.

My experience was above my expectations. As I said, chip went out Monday, I had it back on Thursday but I arrived back a couple of days ago. No problems. I'm surprised to hear of such incidents.. almost as if there are two Willies.

Good luck to you guys, I wish I can help some how.

I"m loving the chip!

G
 
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