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I have two choices here I can get both kits for pretty cheap. First is the dry kit which is a ZEX Nitrous kit #82011. Then the wet kit 10lb bottle, 75 shot jet unknown brand/kit number.(will find out soon). So my question is which should I buy/which is better? How hard is it to install? I'd like some tips before I buy them so I know what I'm getting into. FYI I will be on standalone when spraying so you don't have to tell me to get a chip.
 

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Find Em Fuck Em Forget Em
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Zex kit is easiest to install.

The wet system is generally much safer IMO. The 'tune' with the fuel jets is easy to manage (straightforward calculations) while a dry system is pretty hit and miss (since you are bypassing nitrous pressure to the vac line on your fpr).

You'll need to set up a WOT activation switch in order to use the wet kit, this is the only plus side the zex dry kit has, you just wire the tps to it and you're done.

I have a really trick little nitrous controller, made by Dynotune nitrous Link, it's $130 and has support for TPS learning, dual stage control, and window (RPM on/off) functions. You should creep over their site, they've got some really cool stuff...like an A/F gauge that will cut off your nitrous if you start to run lean.
 
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Thanks anyone else with input on which I should buy? I found out the wet kit is a NOS brand. I prefer NOS over zex
 

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Type II King
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Thanks anyone else with input on which I should buy? I found out the wet kit is a NOS brand. I prefer NOS over zex
get a dry kit, as long as your not doing a huge shot, your computer will be able to put the right amount of fuel with the nitrous. Both kits are dangerous if used incorrectly. For example if you do too big of a shot using a dry kit, your car wont have the capabilities to apply the right amount of fuel with the stock components. For a wet kit, you are spraying fuel and nitrous into your manifold which could be dangerous as well since it could cause backfires. So both are dangerous in their own ways. I went with a dry kit because its more of a simple set up, im not gonna run huge shots maybe 60-70 shots, and i have a afc to fine tune it on a dyno.
 
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what does dv8 run? Reason I ask is I'm copying his engine so might as well follow his footsteps :)
 

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Type II King
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what does dv8 run? Reason I ask is I'm copying his engine so might as well follow his footsteps :)
hes tried everything from direct port to wet and then he settled with dry.. So if your following him, go with a dry set up, maybe he'll chime in with some reasons of why he settled down with a dry set up.
 

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You're going to think I'm busting your balls...

get a dry kit, as long as your not doing a huge shot, your computer will be able to put the right amount of fuel with the nitrous.
This is a common misconception.

The computer doesn't know the difference between nitrous and air. The IAT sensor might see the colder air temperature. However a MAP sensor won't see any difference in manifold pressure. The MAF/AMM, if you shot the nitrous pre-sensor, it would count for 'air' and not nitrous. The meter would measure it as more air, atmospheric oxygen is 23% by weight. Nitrous is 36% oxygen by weight. This would be an obvious mismatch.

I wouldn't inject nitrous pre-MAF/AMM personally, the supercooled nitrous might damage the sensitive parts.

Using the oxygen sensor to trim the fuel when injecting nitrous wouldn't be effective because optimal nitrous A/F ratio is much lower than NA (usually about 13.5) and equal or lower than turbo/supercharged (12.0-13.0). You wouldn't want the ECU correcting the A/F ratio while on nitrous. This isn't an issue because most ECUs go 'open-loop' and virtually ignore the 02 sensor at WOT.

The purpose of the 02 sensor is to trim the fuel injection for economy and emissions purposes, not as a fuel enrichment device.

The additional fuel is added in a dry system by venting nitrous over to the vacuum diaphragm of the fuel pressure regulator, effectively raising fuel rail pressure to compensate for the extra combustion potential of the Nitrous.

The engines 'computer' is your enemy, if anything, in a dry nitrous system.

Both kits are dangerous if used incorrectly. For example if you do too big of a shot using a dry kit, your car wont have the capabilities to apply the right amount of fuel with the stock components.
This is 100% accurate. In fact I would NEVER run a shot of over 100hp nitrous dry. My feelings here are that if you're adding that much nitrous it would be best to mix your additional fuel with the nitrous, so you don't risk overly lean cylinders.

For a wet kit, you are spraying fuel and nitrous into your manifold which could be dangerous as well since it could cause backfires. So both are dangerous in their own ways.
Backfiring through the intake is usually a problem with vehicles running high overlap cams and large amounts of nitrous.

YouTube - Nitrous Explosion on Dyno

Although if a fuel solenoid fails and puddles fuel in the intake that's a good way to break stuff quick-like.

YouTube - 14.6 2.2L Chevy Cobalt + Nitrous EXPLOSION!

And just for fun here's some proof you can nitrous anything.

YouTube - Mower Vs Nitrous

I went with a dry kit because its more of a simple set up, im not gonna run huge shots maybe 60-70 shots, and i have a afc to fine tune it on a dyno.
I'm also running dry on my RL...just because I have a drivetrain warranty so I wanted to be able to pull it out quick-like.
 

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dude that cobalt video is hilarious. loved the shot of the plates at the end.
 

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Type II King
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So are you saying that the stock computer wont be able to adjust the fuel to compensate for a small nitrous shot? I know that the computer doesn't realize nitrous is being injected but it does notice the temperature change and adds more fuel. I do agree with you on the rest of the stuff though, good info.
 

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Find Em Fuck Em Forget Em
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IAT sensors only have the ability to trim fuel by a few percent. Still the colder. denser 'air' reading doesn't account for the higher oxygen content present in the nitrous.

Even if the ECU reacted to the nitrous as you propose, you still wouldn't be at optimal or safe A/F ratio...as the ECU would not be aiming for a calculated or measured sub 13:1 A/F.
 

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Type II King
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IAT sensors only have the ability to trim fuel by a few percent. Still the colder. denser 'air' reading doesn't account for the higher oxygen content present in the nitrous.

Even if the ECU reacted to the nitrous as you propose, you still wouldn't be at optimal or safe A/F ratio...as the ECU would not be aiming for a calculated or measured sub 13:1 A/F.
hmm what im doing is using an afc to tune the airfuel based on the nitrous shot and using a moates 2timer to change my maps at the time of nitrous injection, retarding the maps by 2 degrees. Once i figure out how much fuel needs to be added i can get a custom chip made with those adjustments, am i going about this the wrong way?
 

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Find Em Fuck Em Forget Em
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hmm what im doing is using an afc to tune the airfuel based on the nitrous shot and using a moates 2timer to change my maps at the time of nitrous injection, retarding the maps by 2 degrees. Once i figure out how much fuel needs to be added i can get a custom chip made with those adjustments, am i going about this the wrong way?
I don't think the AFC has any place here. If you're using it to tune the nitrous shot, how are you only using it when the nitrous is activated? Wouldn't you be running nitrous corrected fueling at all times that way? If I misunderstand your setup please clarify.

You certainly need to pull some timing, I usually start with 2 degrees retard and try up to 4. Nitrous in most cases makes more power with a little less timing regardless of the knock threshold. Either way 2 is a good place to be if you don't have more options and time to test.

As far as figuring and getting the custom chip made... Is there any reliable way to translate afc correction factors over to the chip burner? Ideally one would have the chip burned after test runs (with a romulator) on the dyno, but I know this might not be possible. So is the fueling going to be a flip chip also (I don't even know if this is possible for you guys yet)? Otherwise you're no closer to getting it right that route.

As I said, if I missed something, please clarify.
 

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Type II King
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I don't think the AFC has any place here. If you're using it to tune the nitrous shot, how are you only using it when the nitrous is activated? Wouldn't you be running nitrous corrected fueling at all times that way? If I misunderstand your setup please clarify.

You certainly need to pull some timing, I usually start with 2 degrees retard and try up to 4. Nitrous in most cases makes more power with a little less timing regardless of the knock threshold. Either way 2 is a good place to be if you don't have more options and time to test.

As far as figuring and getting the custom chip made... Is there any reliable way to translate afc correction factors over to the chip burner? Ideally one would have the chip burned after test runs (with a romulator) on the dyno, but I know this might not be possible. So is the fueling going to be a flip chip also (I don't even know if this is possible for you guys yet)? Otherwise you're no closer to getting it right that route.

As I said, if I missed something, please clarify.
there is a setting on the afc that i can change maps from say a nitrous map to an na map, so it wouldn't be running it all the time. But i don't see why i couldn't correlate the data from the afc to a chip later on for that nitrous shot that way i would only run the maps at the time i press the nitrous button. The moates 2timer will read half of the chip with na maps on it, but when its grounded it will read the other half of the chip with the nitrous maps on it, this will allow me to wire it to the nitrous switch.
 

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Ok, I didn't know if your flip chip was just ignition or ignition and fuel map switchable.

Switchable map for the AFC makes sense. Must be a SAFCII or whatever they're calling 'em now. Perfectly reasonable by itself, although forgetting to switch maps could be a disaster.

The point I was making about the AFC values to the nitrous map on the chip is this:

The percentage correction based on throttle position on the AFC will not directly coincide with the change of values on the chip. Honestly you could only hope the chip burner has a good instinct for translating the values.

:giggle: Like a much less reasonable estimate than calculating 1/4 mile from 1/8th mile ET. :giggle:

IMO I wouldn't spend the money on a chip with guesses and hope it is right. You would be better off using the fpr vacuum line method of enrichment and tuning it from there. So you could have fueling close before you have to trust the electronics.
 

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Type II King
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Ok, I didn't know if your flip chip was just ignition or ignition and fuel map switchable.

Switchable map for the AFC makes sense. Must be a SAFCII or whatever they're calling 'em now. Perfectly reasonable by itself, although forgetting to switch maps could be a disaster.

The point I was making about the AFC values to the nitrous map on the chip is this:

The percentage correction based on throttle position on the AFC will not directly coincide with the change of values on the chip. Honestly you could only hope the chip burner has a good instinct for translating the values.

:giggle: Like a much less reasonable estimate than calculating 1/4 mile from 1/8th mile ET. :giggle:

IMO I wouldn't spend the money on a chip with guesses and hope it is right. You would be better off using the fpr vacuum line method of enrichment and tuning it from there. So you could have fueling close before you have to trust the electronics.
hmm so your not just an asshole you actually know your stuff :p
 
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Are you guys done yet? haha. I need to make a decision.
 

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and i quote...
"hmm so your not just an asshole you actually know your stuff"

THIS SHIT IS NOTHING SHORT OF GOLDEN....!
boys, i have no idea of what you speak, as i would no sooner put nitrous on my Legend as as my John Deere,
But My AL.COM brothers, you give me such credibility with your deapth of knowledge, and i bask in the glow, my thanks to both of you to be able to (quasi-snidley) state your case, refer questions, dicker over the details, agree or not in a public foum and its still readable and and interesting and not a rant, and in the end agree that both seem to know WTF they're talking about, different/same, whatever,...but informed...not just the Elijah Craig talkin here either... :)
that is just fuckin' awesome, i dont care who you are...
Get Off kids...so enjoyable, keep that shit comin''
and -if- i did nitrous my tractor, i'd call ya'll first...

http://www.acura-legend.com/vbulletin/attachment.php?attachmentid=4794&stc=1&d=1206854193

which would you nitro first??? the switchboards are now open....
FTFW!
 

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Type II King
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Are you guys done yet? haha. I need to make a decision.
i think dv8 needs to chime in here, since he has used every form of nitrous on the legend and knows what works best and why, so ill sent him a pm about this convo so he can post some knowledge
 
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