README: Corner Balancing and Alignment

12143 Views 46 Replies 19 Participants Last post by kotetu, Oct 31, 2008

mrkeith

Discussion Starter · May 4, 2007

2

Dear Every Coil-Over-Driving Legend Owner--
You should corner-balance your Legend; otherwise you're not taking advantage of what your coil-overs were designed to do. Lowering is only a side effect, or perk, of installing coil-overs.

On with it! Believe me when I write that my Legend is difficult to align--so difficult that I've been turned away from a couple shops (including the dealership). Without a doubt, West End Alignment in Gardina, CA offers alignment and corner-balancing perfection, even for meticulous folks like myself. The guy is a suspension genius; he asks the right questions; his advice is solid. These words cannot describe how satisfied I am, or how my face hurts from grinning the entire two-hour drive home. For once, my Legend is as it should have been. It feels super agile and nimble on its toes.

The Legend about to be corner balanced:

My corner balance results:

The guy moved ~75lbs. of weight off the driver's front wheel, which roughly equates to removing a 400lb. guy out of the driver's seat. As you can see from the results above, relocating the battery to the passenger rear of the car (directly above the wheel) should almost perfectly left/right balance the coupe with me sitting in it.

My alignment is a perfect 1.5 degree camber on both front tires with 4.5 degrees caster and no toe (zero). Both rear tires are running 1.25 degrees of negative camber and 1/16 inches of toe in. I think this is a perfect track setup for a Legend. If you do not track your Legend, or drive aggressively, then run much less camber or you'll be roasting tires!

I wish that you guys could drive the before and after. If you have any questions about corner balancing or alignments, please ask. I can hopefully help. If you would like to schedule an appointment with West End, see below. I cannot recommend them high enough!

18008 S Vermont Ave
Gardena, CA 90248
(310) 808-9233

See you all at the Nationals tomorrow!

Cheers,
Keith

P.S.
Both the alignment and corner-balancing were done with me sitting in the car the entire time.

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21 - 40 of 47 Posts

Volk Racing

· #21 · May 17, 2007

I dunno. Ground controls, stock assemblies, Ksport... etc. They are all still "true" coilovers.

Definition of coilovers are coil springs over struts. So if you combine Skunk2 sleeves/springs with the struts, it's considered coilovers as a whole unit.

mrkeith

Discussion Starter · #22 · May 17, 2007

NoWuse said:
keith you need some lighter wheels bro.

The wheels I've got now weigh 21 lbs. ea. which isn't too bad for two-piece forged 18x8"s. Or, do you mean light like 9lb. Spoon rims?

I'm stuck with 17"s at the smallest because of the big brakes.

mrkeith

Discussion Starter · #23 · May 17, 2007

Volk Racing said:
I dunno. Ground controls, stock assemblies, Ksport... etc. They are all still "true" coilovers.

Definition of coilovers are coil springs over struts. So if you combine Skunk2 sleeves/springs with the struts, it's considered coilovers as a whole unit.

I think of the Ground Controls as sleeved springs, but I see your point too. Regardless, Skunk Coilovers = shit ;P

aww-shiet

· #24 · May 18, 2007

mrkeith said:
The wheels I've got now weigh 21 lbs. ea. which isn't too bad for two-piece forged 18x8"s. Or, do you mean light like 9lb. Spoon rims? I'm stuck with 17"s at the smallest because of the big brakes.

if you get 9lb wheels you wont have good traction till end of 2 begining of 3rd. which kinda sounds cool, but your track time will rise a cupple milli seconds.

but good research on the suspention! ::thumbsup:

also btw the rims Dv8 has are like 15lbs (volks) and probably 13lbs (slicks)

mrkeith

Discussion Starter · #25 · May 18, 2007

NoWuse said:
if you get 9lb wheels you wont have good traction till end of 2 begining of 3rd. which kinda sounds cool, but your track time will rise a cupple milli seconds.

but good research on the suspention! ::thumbsup:

also btw the rims Dv8 has are like 15lbs (volks) and probably 13lbs (slicks)

Dv8's rims are forged monoblocks; mine are two-piece forged. Both of our rims are Volks, but just about any monoblock is lighter than a two-piece. I bought my rims because they're the fucking tits, not because of their performance

Volk Racing

· #26 · May 18, 2007

mrkeith said:
Dv8's rims are forged monoblocks; mine are two-piece forged. Both of our rims are Volks, but just about any monoblock is lighter than a two-piece. I bought my rims because they're the fucking tits, not because of their performance

+1 Same here.

mrkeith

Discussion Starter · #27 · May 18, 2007

Volk Racing said:
+1 Same here.

Bro, I'm not trying to brag, but I'm not going to lie either. Our wheels are possibly the nicest set of rims ever manufactured on Planet Earth. I don't care if they weighed 30lbs. each, I'd still rock 'em (albeit with a lighter set for track use ;P)

By the way, don't you have two spare barrels for sale? Your new signature is beautiful.

aww-shiet

· #28 · May 18, 2007

mrkeith said:
Dv8's rims are forged monoblocks; mine are two-piece forged. Both of our rims are Volks, but just about any monoblock is lighter than a two-piece. I bought my rims because they're the fucking tits, not because of their performance

:rofl: :boobies: :boobies: :boobies:

aww-shiet

· #29 · May 18, 2007

mrkeith said:
Bro, I'm not trying to brag, but I'm not going to lie either. Our wheels are possibly the nicest set of rims ever manufactured on Planet Earth. I don't care if they weighed 30lbs. each, I'd still rock 'em (albeit with a lighter set for track use ;P)

By the way, don't you have two spare barrels?

yea a set off konigs lightweights with slicks would make a major difference on the track

Volk Racing

· #30 · May 18, 2007

mrkeith said:
Bro, I'm not trying to brag, but I'm not going to lie either. Our wheels are possibly the nicest set of rims ever manufactured on Planet Earth. I don't care if they weighed 30lbs. each, I'd still rock 'em (albeit with a lighter set for track use ;P)

By the way, don't you have two spare barrels for sale? Your new signature is beautiful.

Yea, I got two barrels for sale. If you were to put your rim spokes on them, they would be +40mm offset. It looks as if your coupe has even flushness with the front and rears, so I'm not sure if you would like to have the rears out more.

For some reason, the sedans seems to have the fronts stick out more than the rear, so I had to make the rears poke more, and it still seems the front poke more than the rear. Hmm..

mrkeith

Discussion Starter · #31 · May 18, 2007

Volk Racing said:
Yea, I got two barrels for sale. If you were to put your rim spokes on them, they would be +40mm offset. It looks as if your coupe has even flushness with the front and rears, so I'm not sure if you would like to have the rears out more.

For some reason, the sedans seems to have the fronts stick out more than the rear, so I had to make the rears poke more, and it still seems the front poke more than the rear. Hmm..

My front sit slightly more flush than the rear too, even thought they've got more negative camber than the rear. My rear has toe-in, though. I used to think that was why?

What are you asking for the barrels? Any curb rash, dings, or bends?

k.

Volk Racing

· #32 · May 18, 2007

mrkeith said:
My front sit slightly more flush than the rear too, even thought they've got more negative camber than the rear. My rear has toe-in, though. I used to think that was why?

What are you asking for the barrels? Any curb rash, dings, or bends?

k.

No curb rashes, and they are straight. There are tiny ... dinks? I think from some small rocks. I'll try to take some super close up shots of all the imperfections I can find. I haven't figured a price yet..

I still have to get the tires removed, so I'll have to install the brand new higher disk spokes to have the shop remove the old tires.

kotetu

· #33 · Jul 21, 2007

mrkeith said:
The only difference, and Brian thinks it may be tire-related, was that Brian's Ksport coupe understeers and I oversteer with JICs.

k.

Tire pressure differences front to rear as little as 1 psi can change the handling characteristics substantially. Brian also does not have the front sway, so there must have been a pretty big difference. What are the JIC spring rates?

mrkeith

Discussion Starter · #34 · Jul 21, 2007

The JIC spring rates are 14/8, and the dampeners are much stiffer than the Ksports, even compared to the Ksports dialed all the way to stiff. Do the Ksports have a progressive-rate spring?

My car definitely oversteers and Brian's understeers like a typical Legend. Since our tires aren't staggered, the difference should be suspension-related.

Daft Punk tonight!

k.

Blackend

· #35 · Jul 22, 2007

I think my tires are the major reason for my understeer, even though I do oversteer quite a bit, the first reaction of my car is to push through the turn like a semi on ice at full lock.

Keith was running BFG's against my Kuhmo's and I'd warrant a bet that had we switched rims/tires we'd have switched handling characteristics as well.

mrkeith

Discussion Starter · #36 · Jul 22, 2007

Blackend said:
I think my tires are the major reason for my understeer, even though I do oversteer quite a bit, the first reaction of my car is to push through the turn like a semi on ice at full lock.

Keith was running BFG's against my Kuhmo's and I'd warrant a bet that had we switched rims/tires we'd have switched handling characteristics as well.

I drove my car on the factory 16s and it still oversteers.

k.

misdeismo

· #37 · Jul 22, 2007 (Edited)

Blackend said:
Except for the JIC's for some reason. Their height adjustment compresses the spring. In looking at the Ksports, it's pretty easy to leave the spring alone - not sure why JIC engineered theirs that way.

Having adjustment of ride height separate from the spring pre-load adjustment is really a value added design consideration, and as such is is a marketable feature and thus generally increases the price of the coilovers.

The fact that cheaper coilovers systems have one or all the features of a higher end system usually means there are compromises made somewhere to achieve the price target, I would think this would reflect in certain R&D and construction elements.

I hear a lot of complaints about the JICs from other car owners about reliability and price/value considerations but many of these people don't understand that coilovers, like brake pads, is an example where performance targets can render a product completely or ill suited to daily driving. Just like you can't use race pads on the street because they won't perform in their optimal range, with coilovers, specifically the JIC's their performance target is highly track biased which means perceived compromises in reliability and comfort.

I would agree with Keith in his statement that the JICs are probably more stiff than the Ksports at their highest setting because the JICs were tuned specifically for track use. I would also conclude that this particular notion should make the Ksports more reliable for street use all things being equal.

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mrkeith

Discussion Starter · #38 · Jul 22, 2007 (Edited)

Well written, misdeismo

The JICs are _not_ reliable, especially being driven over public roads; they're designed to be used on the track, and have wicked high compression dampeners that are known to start leaking through the seals. I've got ~2 years on mine and don't expect them to last another two. Road turbulence and potholes murder the JICs.

Look at these:
http://www.evasivemotorsports.com/m...n=PROD&Store_Code=EM&Product_Code=KA7FLTA2VIP
The more comfortable JICs... (comfortable is relative) I might look into those once I bust the dampeners on mine, but will most likely just get the Ksports.

k.

DSL

· #39 · Oct 18, 2007

just contacted Darren at this alignment place. There is a 1-2 week wait time to make an appt. WOW. anyways, i think im going soon. right after i change my rear shocks

Artillery129

· #40 · Oct 18, 2007

get a center mounted engine for neutral steering!! maybe thats a bit too extreme, but it would be much better for your handling.

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