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Life Ruiner
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LegendC said:


You are throwing around some good terminology but I don't think you understand a couple of fundamentals.

100hp boost of nitrous vs 100 hp boost of turbo

Intake temperatures will be lower with N20 becuase of the cooling nature of an expanding compressed gas. Turbo's will always heat the intake charge, even with a very very efficient intercooler (80-90%) over ambient temperature.

Lets talk about compression correctly. Compression is the ratio the fuel\air mixture is compressed on the compress stroke. Legends have a relatively high compression, thats how we make a lot of horsepower NA. When you add any kind of boost you are putting additional stress on the engine to compress the denser intake (fuel\air) charge. So in out 100N2O vs 100Turbo example both are putting nearly identical stresses on the motor. Assuming neither increase in power goes over the threshold the motor can't handle ie some internal breaks....which is better for longevity? Always having that 100 HP or only when you need it? Remember you are adding stress on the motor...

Last lets talk about what ususaly breaks a good motor. Running lean and pinging. On a high compression motor what is more likely to ping...a hotter less dense charge, or a colder denser charge? Even at the same "boost" or increase in PSI the colder charge which is what you want. A highschool chemistry class will teach you all about the gas laws and will explain how all this holds true.

So back to the application of this knowledge to our cars. DV8 mentioned that the hot exhaust gasses can't escape our ****ty headers. This is a problem ALL FI setups would face, turbo would need a new exhaust manifold anyway so this is almost moot. With N2O the kit pretty much manages the fuel setup for you. Its only running at WOT so there is little variability in its configuration, it just raises fuel pressure when active. With a turbo or supercharger you need true engine management. The fuel needs are different at 1\4, 1\2, and WOT so you need a complete spectrum of tuning.

So alas, when asking a question about the only from of FI AVAILABLE you try to chop the N20 users up. Last I checked the fastest Legend was on the laughing gas.

So, is 100 shot the ceiling or should I try to find a 75pill when I have my ZEX dry kit installed. Thanks!
best explination to date, I'd say that 85 shot or lower is great for anyone at WOT pusshing 100 your going to play with a 50/50 chance.
I have some serious mods to my internals now so im not to worried about a 100 direct port shot which is spraying equal amount of fuel and NOS were as my [email protected] was with a dry 85 shot and letting the fuel computer compensate for fuel, which most Legends do surprisingly very well.

ranger....to each his own, if i ever caught you on the freeway driving your car i would remote the bottle opener and push the button, as you watch me fly away not being able to catch up, maybe then you'll reconsider a 6k+turbo kit and spend 1000 for a good Custom NOS Kit.

~Hybrid
 

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Ranger, why you so against NOS?? You diss NOS, but many of us Legends would take your lunch and throw it in your mama's face if we ever raced you. There are alot of people here running Nitrous, and no one has burned a motor up yet, that I can recall.
It would take years of NOS use to EQUAL the cost of even the most entry level turbo system available for the common Civic. Now, compare that to the cost of the non-existent turbo system that is definitely not available fo my Legend. If you had a turbo car, you would not have power all the time. Most of us sit in congested traffic, and personally, my car rarely goes over 2500 rpm between the hours of 7am and 9pm. And, when I use my NOS, I end up going way to fast anyway, I have to turn it back off. I don't like that much power on the road.
My friend has a 2001 Prelude, previously running a JR S/C, now running a F-Max turbo. He is thinking about pulling all that crap off and going NOS. Why? Because his car is fast enough NA to get into trouble, and tuning the always "on" S/C and Turbo systems has been a continuous problem in regards to part throttle driving. Now his car runs 99% perfect, but sometimes his current state of tune causes daily driving problems. Nitrous never has driveability problems. And a full tank lasts me at least 2 months. At $50 a refill, I spend $300 a year on Nitrous. And at any moment, I can smoke you big time in your NA Legend. Don't matter if you have the TypeII, 6 speed, intake, chip, exh, the wishful thinking DV8 headers, you will go down to any NOS Legend. :rolleyes:
 

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Sneek-eka7 and LegendC, you are correct. I used to question NOS myself, but once you understand it, you really can't deny the bargain (Rangerjoe). Yeah, you'd have to lower the Legends compression to 8 or 8.5 to1., probably invest in forged pistons (not sure if legend are already forged), turbo manifolds- where would you put turbos anyway?space is so tight. Auto trannys would blow up down the road, as would the axles and diff. Invest in an engine management system- constant dyno tuning, the list of potential problems is almost infinite- not to menntion that it would cost at least 10K if it could be done. If you've got the money, buy an E36 M3 and supercharge it-- that is a really fun car!
Sadly, our 10 yr. old luxury coupes and sedans just aren't cut out for F.I.
 

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Oh yeah. The only thing I was wondering is how NOS affected those with a chip. I mean, that advances your ignition timing and your really not supposed to mix them, but I guess nobody has blown a hole through their piston yet. Can the knock sensor override a non-stock chip and retard the timing? I know most of us use 93 octane or so so maybe that's why okay. My 2 cents.
 

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The new chip maintains knock sensor input. The engine always goes into timing retard, even when chipped. I doubt the timing retard is reduced any more than 2 degrees when chipped. Also, under WOT, the NOS system will increase fuel pressure 50% (ZEX) and the ECU will run the injectors at maximum duty cycle.

For my Type I motor, I have thought about putting the Type II injectors in, and having my ECU chipped according to my current mods. The main worry with NOS is fuel delivery.
 

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RangerJoe you really have no idea what you are talking about. Almost everything you said was wrong.
 

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95legend said:
all this talking about stuff that could go wrong scares me. im getting my stuff put on friday but im afraid. i dont wanna blow her up cause i really dont have the money right now to get new motor and put it in. ill be spraying 65 shot, but still im scared. anybody have pics of where in the trunk they put their bottle?
Man, any time you even DRIVE your car you run the risk of it being damaged in some way. No one here has had anything go wrong. My auto tranny has been messed up for 2 years and 40K miles, and even a 75 shot of NOS won't break it. The only thing you should consider doing is get some colder spark plugs. I think most people go 2 ranges colder, or just use the ZEX plugs.

 

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SNEEK-E HONDA KA7 said:
Ranger, why you so against NOS?? You diss NOS, but many of us Legends would take your lunch and throw it in your mama's face if we ever raced you. There are alot of people here running Nitrous, and no one has burned a motor up yet, that I can recall.
It would take years of NOS use to EQUAL the cost of even the most entry level turbo system available for the common Civic. Now, compare that to the cost of the non-existent turbo system that is definitely not available fo my Legend. If you had a turbo car, you would not have power all the time. Most of us sit in congested traffic, and personally, my car rarely goes over 2500 rpm between the hours of 7am and 9pm. And, when I use my NOS, I end up going way to fast anyway, I have to turn it back off. I don't like that much power on the road.
My friend has a 2001 Prelude, previously running a JR S/C, now running a F-Max turbo. He is thinking about pulling all that crap off and going NOS. Why? Because his car is fast enough NA to get into trouble, and tuning the always "on" S/C and Turbo systems has been a continuous problem in regards to part throttle driving. Now his car runs 99% perfect, but sometimes his current state of tune causes daily driving problems. Nitrous never has driveability problems. And a full tank lasts me at least 2 months. At $50 a refill, I spend $300 a year on Nitrous. And at any moment, I can smoke you big time in your NA Legend. Don't matter if you have the TypeII, 6 speed, intake, chip, exh, the wishful thinking DV8 headers, you will go down to any NOS Legend. :rolleyes:
whats your point? i know my car isnt an 11 second car, or even a 14 second car. i never said it was.

90Legend218 said:
RangerJoe you really have no idea what you are talking about. Almost everything you said was wrong.
lol. nice explanation of why you think im wrong. turbos compress air, and in turn put more of it into the cylinders. the more air there is in the cylinder, the more HP/torque you have. thats what i said....the condensed version.
 

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Ranger, it is the fact that you are so "sure" NOS is bad that we are getting on you. You present your opinion like you have a option to turbo your car. You also make it sound like NOS is so dangerous. EVEN my Mom knows NOS is good. She grew up in the late 60's and early 70's. She was around NOS when it was gaining a bad rep for blowing motors. But, even she knows it was because they tuned the cars wrong. And, this is coming from a mechanically retarded woman! You have no mods on your car (not that I know of), and those of us with mods definitely know what we are talking about. If you had a turbo, your opinion would have bearing in this discussion. But you don't, your uneducated, or more correctly, confused, opinion will only pollute this subject further.
I have NOS, so shut it. Get a turbo on your Legend and then we can debate.
 

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lol. im saying NOS isnt an economical way to increase power. you only get the added power for a few seconds...A TURBO IS CONTINUOUS POWER. do you see what i mean? im not uneducated. ive driven and ridden in cars with turbos, ive driven and ridden in cars with NOS.
i have mods on my car. none that increase power very much, but i do. LOOK AT MY SIGNATURE for God's sake. you can read im sure ;) .

im confused about nothing. you are biased towards NOS because you have it. i like a turbocharged car because of the characteristics of them. do you see what i mean?
 

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Hey man, NOS is economical. That is why people buy it. Previously, I said turbos are not that great because you think they are always "on", which is somewhat true, but in day to day driving, a mature driver would rarely dip into boost. My friend would drive his Prelude day to day while never going above 1 or 2 pounds of boost. He just had his motor rebuilt, so the turbo system is off the car, and according to him, the NA Prelude drives better than when it was S/C, and just as good as when it is turbo'ed. Of course, all out power is down, but he thinks the NA power is sufficient, and now is considering wether or not to put NOS in place of boost.

I guess this debate is morphing into the classic F/I vs. NOS debate. All I am saying is, the Legend is not ever down on power in day to day driving. If you were using a always "on" turbo system in a car like a Legend (this is only a "what if" scenario) all the time, you would be driving too fast. The car would be stressed out, and you would be getting into trouble all the time. So, the turbo system would be too expensive all the way around, IMO. Broken tranny's, speeding tickets, gas consumption, etc etc.....

This is all a bunch of what if's.....

Back to the subject, and you are WRONG when you say NOS is not economical. I gave a real world cost of NOS a few posts back, and compared it to even a basic entry level Civic turbo system (which everyone knows, Civics with this kind of turbo setup are stil S L O W ). I don't understand how it is not "economical" when the only thing you can say is it is not "always on". Who cares? When it is "on", you can't beat it. $ for $. Unbeatable. Any Chevy, Ford, Dodge, Nissan, Subaru, Toyota, Mazda, Honda fanatic knows this. EVERYONE knows this. Hell, my MOM knows it!!
 

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rangerjoe, if you like turbos so much, why not just get one. go out and spend the minimum $10k and get that done. either that, or just go get a turbocharged car. but until you get a turbo or s/c for your legend, please do not say that turbo is better for our car. might be better on other cars, but not the legend. the only serious turbo cars are supras, rx7s, evo's, imprezas, etc. you cant stap on a GReddy turbo kit onto a civic and be a bad ass. ooooo wow, you got .5lbs of boost out of that thing. ill still smoke that pos civic with just intake. then with the 75 shot, it would be a waste of my time and gas.
another thing, the nos can always be available. all you have to do is leave the system turned on. not the best idea for the engine, but it can be if you want it to.
 
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