[Dethred]

Lets get some preview pics!

 

[Dethred]

dv8 no ones got anything on you.... werent you working on a turbo set up also... any progress you wanna show or u gonna whip this out when its all said and done? we need some turbord legends in hawaii to shut up them sti's running around like in many like stds here.

Christian always waits till he has a working and proven product finished. STi's will always have an advantage on the Legend; AWD, stock easily modified turbo setup, lighter. Thats not to say a properly turbocharged legend wouldn't be able to beat one eventually, but with the same money dumped into aftermarket parts for the STi, a legend would never catch up... unfortunately.

 

[Dethred]

I now have pics of a new manifold with larger primaries, and cleaner welds!
We will see where we are at soon! And to post the pics!
KTW

Looking forward to pics! Just about anything would be better than the stock design. Are the new manifolds directed towards the rear or are they shortening the exhaust route by eliminating the loop in the back of the motor?

 

[Dethred]

well this thread is going to a good direction

Dethred: you got to seriously loose your atitude, like for real. Added more than 6psi in a 11.1 compression motor will blow the rods out of the block and i seen it happen. You probably have the machurity level of a 2 yr old. like did you even ever turbo a car or get into the concept whats good and bad. like take for instance the h22 (92-01 prelude motor ID), if you put more than 5 psi on it, it will blow. wow you got to go back to the books man.

Labrat, good job so far. 5.8 psi dropping 257hp is great for a 4k lbs car. Track time could improve. Are you running automatic trans? if so, when stage lights hit, left foot on brake right foot on gas. get it up to 2-2.5k rpm, then green light hits let go only the brake. you get full traction and it shoots the car. maybe your track time will be better. if you running manual, try to learn to feather the clutch to provide better traction on start.

so far i dont care about prof, the car is runnin turbo on stock computer. no car will do that, no matter how smart it is.

your not going to look at the manifold so it dosent matter how its welded, it matters if its going to work.

Labrat, maybe new thing. take the y-pipe, clean it and polish it up. in this case will get quicker exhaust flow.

also since we're runnin 11.1 compression, try to put in 93 octane and 0-60 octane booster. it makes my accord (only 8.1 compression) accelerate alot damm quicker.

im done for now, keep me up to date guys.

P.S. forged pistons and rods might be avaible next year summer or fall.

Its always the guys who don't know the basic setup up of our engines that tell me to "loose" (or did you mean "Lose"?) the Attitude. Our cars are not 11:1. Octane booster will not do a darn thing unless you or your engine management solution or stock ECU advances the timing, and even then it won't make more than a horsepower on most applications.

And yes, stock ECUs run turbo setups all the time. Many cars can run injectors, pump, and FMU for a so-so tune, most don't get check engine lights or shut down. Seriously, don't tell someone that has been around on these forums for years to quit his attitude, it makes you sound like a real ass hat.

I was also referring to the old (didn't know there was a new) setup. I do remember seeing some manifolds that looked like Inline-4 style intake manifolds... which isn't exactly great for flow and sonic tuning. Maybe he has tried something different? And before you comment on someone's maturity level, LEARN TO FUCKING SPELL MATURITY!!! Jesus H. Christ what is wrong with you?

 

[Dethred]

You sir are an idiot!

First of all, joke's on you. Hopefully everyone will see how mature you are when they are thinking of buying a product from you that hasn't been made feasible.

257whp on 5.8psi is great! That alone is a near 100whp gain!!! It does not translate to the track for obvious reasons...which your brain can not comprehend!

Again, great show of maturity. Why don't you push it past 6psi? Wait, the engine will shut off? Well can't I get over 257whp and mid-low 14's with a 600-800 dollar nitrous kit that makes power throughout the RPM band and doesn't require major installation work? Of course my brain can't comprehend that your car can't make decent track times because your turbo has massive lag (yes boost at 3000rpm at such a low PSI is pretty bad), and coupled with an auto, which most legends have, makes for terrible track times. Also, you're doing the runs at a high altitude, which is another reason you haven't tested the product. You're using nothing but theoretical numbers based on your altitude. Guess what? THAT ISN'T PROOF, SMART GUY!

That is a high trap speed for a 16.3 1/4!!! Why dont you see what mid to high 14 sec cars are running for a trap speed and get back to me. They should be close to the same trap speeds!

Most cars that run a 14 flat will pull a 99-101mph trap speed. You're getting a trap speed of a stock type 2 legend. But sure, include the theoretical altitude adjustment as proven results.

It is more than obvious the car does not spool my huge turbo off the line....but it sure as hell pulls hard after that. A smaller turbo will cure this issue....stay posted cause I have one on the way!

And how do you plan on making that 257hp on a smaller turbo when upping the pressure shuts the car down? Unless you've changed the setup, you're running a tweaked version of a shitty turbo kit. Have you changed your ghetto welded manifolds?

I will prove you wrong....actually why dont we race and I can show you how my kit does NOT work. I will come to you and your local track and we can throw down a couple Gs to make it work my time. I would love for you to show me what a crap kit I am producing!
Put you money where your mouth is!!!
Kyle

I am sorry. I can't believe I am arguing with someone that is telling the skeptic to put his money where his mouth is. This is extremely entertaining reading how I, the person doubting your unproven product, has to prove that it doesn't work??? HAHAHAHHAHAHAHAH, you're absolutely insane.

Believe me, I want the kit to work just as much as others.

Only problem is:

There is no proof that it works and is a viable upgrade... yet you're trying to sell it. If you don't understand how shitty that looks from a business standpoint then you're hopeless.

We need:

1.) Real track results, not calculations based on altitude and other factors. It would be ok if you bought a proven kit and were just sharing your results, but you're basing these rather shitty results as a basis for selling a multi-thousand dollar modification.

2.) Video proof.

3.) Racing another legend. Tyler beat you in his 15.5 second legend at the same altitude. That is pretty pathetic.

 

[Dethred]

Deathred...
Please explain 3.0sec 60 foot times and 92 mph trap speeds at 4500ft to make a 16.3 run. Oh yea, and no wheel spin. I think you are just trying to argue for the sake of arguing.....I can not do everthing on my own and you know that I am not going to send out crap for products.

You know this is going to be a clean kit- just like the pullies I am sending out.
Thanks, Kyle

Who cares if it is "clean"? It isn't proven in any way, shape, or form. As of right now your kit doesn't work. Hell Stock MX-6's. which aren't exactly fast by any stretch of the imagination, can beat a 16.3 in the elevations of colorado... and you could probably buy an MX-6 for less than your turbo kit costs to make.

PS: You guys are the ones arguing for the sake of arguing. All you have shown is a high 60 foot time, a low trap speed, and high elevation. Man, now I'm convinced! I am going to turbocharge my legend so I can get high 14's at sealevel for 3000+ dollars. Make it work and give proof, then you can talk.

 

[Dethred]

Ok since you can't comprehend what I am saying let me break it down for you...

Civic kits have tuning options and don't shut down above 8-9psi, that was the only reference I was making. They can sell kits for the civic because they work and don't shut the car down.

You can talk about turbo size all day long but you'll either lose power or raise the pressure to a level that will shut the engine down to achieve the same general results. If the legend motor gets enough lag with a T3/T04E turbo to only yeild a .7 second increase in the 1/4 mile with an 80hp increase, there is a serious design flaw right off the bat. Its either the ghetto exhaust manifolds, the distance of piping, and/or the lack of a tune.

Again, he is wanting to sell a kit that he still hasn't perfected even with these weekly tips from several members. If you can't realize that then why don't you save up some money, buy the kit, and either prove me wrong or realize after your first 1/4 mile run that buying an 80 shot of nitrous would have yeilded better results for 1/4 or 1/5th of the cost.

I am not bashing or trying to bash anything other than the idea of selling something after a year+ of struggling to get a working kit without any fixes. Its almost as if Kyle has given up on an easy fix and wants to sell the kits to get some money back before he can even give decent results. If he can't break into the low 14's with an 80hp gain then its not worth the money.

 

[Dethred]

You guys are joking right? If this was a civic kit then sure, there are options out there. Buying this with no successful runs and no definitive tuning solution is like selling a custom car without an engine and saying "you can get it running". You got a good gain from 5.8psi but that was with a rather large turbo, and if you go smaller you'll need a higher PSI to get the same CFM, which will shut the car down.

What you have done is produce a several thousand dollar mod, that as far as its been tested, has produced less than a second gain in a straight line drag race.

I would caution anyone from buying this unless they have extremely high knowledge of ECU's, stand-alones, and tuning.

You can have a shop install it with a smaller turbo and either get less power or crank up the boost and have your car shut down before winding out first gear...

or you can get a bigger turbo, run 5-6psi, and get less than a second gain in a straight line due to horrible turbo lag.

I'm sorry but unless you show real gains and can prove that the hardware side is up to snuff (which requires getting the software side corrected), then you're selling a bad product. No offense but that is what it is.

 

[Dethred]

Why would you try selling this without a working setup? By working I mean a setup that makes power, doesn't throw CEL's past 7-8psi, and is track proven?

 

[Dethred]

Here's a $600 solution, spray until you hit full boost.

 

[Dethred]

Amen.
KTW

So what have you decided?

Street/strip: Auto?
Street: Manual?

 

[Dethred]

Go Bracket racing with an auto and then try it with a 5 or 6 speed. Guess who wins?

 

[Dethred]

I am not asking novice questions, but I do realize I didnt ask the right question(s).

I have never heard of you auto Xing the car, only talking about it. So I figured you were talking about drag because that is what you do. So is it harder to drag race? If so, why?

Turbo engines are known to get good gas mileage while not in boost because you are not pumping extra fuel into the engine as you are not in boost for normal driving. I would be under the impression that if I had a stick that I could control the RPMS during normal driving. I would get horrible gas mileage if I were in boost the entire time, but I never drive like that.
Later, Kyle

Manual transmissions are always capable of better performance in almost any situation, but automatics are more consistent, hence their use in drag racing. Around a track an auto is useless because when you let off the throttle it will change up without permission.

And you're going to get crap fuel mileage no matter what you do. You don't have you engine tuned fully so its going to be spilling either too much or too little fuel in all the time. I am sure your AFC will help but not as much as a full tune. The manual gearbox will have a taller 5th or 6th gear but other than that its not a whole lot different as far as revs than the auto. But really, you're building a turbocharged car... this isn't ricer land where you get to brag about fuel mileage as an excuse as to why you lose a race, its the real world and from what you've done to your car fuel mileage is the last thing you should care about.

 

[Dethred]

Try and see if they can make you a higher stall converter. The legend lvl10 only goes to like 2300 I believe.

 

[Dethred]

I wanna see too, dethred@hotmail.com

 

[Dethred]

DV8- You should try that and you will be where you are now-nowhere important. I had made flanges and they are aval. to the public! I had them made about a year ago, and said that anyone who wanted some just needed to ask for me for them. I was planning on having Joule do headers and manifolds with them, but then we know what happened there. I had them made while my car was there at the shop so that we could have headers and turbo manifolds from what you had given me. Like we know- I wasnt going to go back and pay for a hack job. I am trying to get this together for everyone! DV8 - dont pretend that you know me. You are an average gear head just like I am. I have had over 5yrs of auto classes, and while they were not specialized in Acuras, and Turbo I know what I can and cant do. We should be helping each other, but while I am pretty new to this(turbo) material it only seems like you are bashing on me and my project. This is turning into the same thread it was-lets change that.

Kyle

I think the problem is that you're mistaking our criticism for "bashing". Trust me everyone wants you to succeed so the notion that we are against you on this is completely false, however when you're on the wrong track something has to be set straight. For instance you have to eliminate the biggest problems with the kit: Piping distance, and produce some sort of ignition timing, whether its paying for a chip to be programmed to handle the pressure, or a standalone for ~$1000. I mean no offense when I say that only a fool would spend $3k+ for what you're making and not wait for a true well thought out system... which will almost definitely never come.

You have the flanges made, so why not just use the stock manifolds, turn them the other direction and run the piping towards the front of the car right off the bat. Eliminating 2-3 feet of extra distance will solve more problems then your halfassed (no offense but that's exactly what it is) attempt at turbo manifolds. I have honestly never seen anyone make anything so flow-resistant in my life. Manifolds operate under sonic or flow tuning, even our stock manifolds don't have all three runners coming out into a flat wall of piping.

My recommendation would have been to completely scrap the whole design you had before and move on to something completely different. Your overall goal should at least be a quick spool and decent power. Most of our cars have automatics, and our power curves are fairly high. Making a setup that spools to max pressure at 4krpm is useless in our cars.

These cars aren't LS1 F-bodies that can spool a rear mounted turbo, they are little honda 3.2 liter low performance engines. The only realistic way of doing it is getting two small twins, putting one where the battery will be moved from, the other from the stock air box, and run your stock manifold to the front and have a maximum of 1.5 feet between the flange at the end of the manifold and the turbine exhaust inlet.

PS: If you use a stock manifold reversed on the stock flange it would be a heck of a lot cheaper, more efficient per dollar, and allow others to add a true equal-length manifold if they choose to with their own money.

 

[Dethred]

Yeah seriously how old are you? It's not even worth anybodys time reading and responding to your useless posts. ALL of your points are WRONG, INACCURATE, OR USELESS. You don't know what you're talking about, and are too hard headed and and stubborn and lost in your ignorance to learn anything. Quit your useless flames,

What the hell do YOU know about standalone engine management? YOU are trying to tell ME the importance of it? Get a clue.......if you want engine management, then stop bltching and go GET IT. If you want to see in reality YOUR OPINION of a better turbo setup, then STFU and GO MAKE IT HAPPEN. What have YOU done or accomplished with the Legend? Besides sitting on the computer bench racing and flaming away like an internet wannabe turbo expert? And a failed head gasket job? Like Kyle challenged you, if you can do better, then STFU AND GO DO IT. PUT UP OR SHUT UP.

Old enough to realize when someone like yourself is being a fool

Apparently the idea of constructive criticism is beyond some of you. You, Imran, for instance, failed to answer my question above. I am trying to constructively criticize a project that is on the wrong track. I personally would never spend 6-10k to turbocharge the car because it is not worth it. I would, however, spend 4-5k on a decent setup, not one that is changing little more than the length of the piping on the manifold by 2-3 inches.

No one has "Put up" yet so by your logic we should all shut up.

And IdrewFelix, I have limited knowledge of turbo setups but the few that have installed have been relative successes, except the one that used an FMU and AFC to boost a little D-series Honda. That engine made less power than the owner's previous nitrous kit he had installed.

The other one was a Turbo Probe that is still not fully together yet.

It doesn't take a genius to know that extending 6 pipes 3 inches won't make enough of a difference to justify the effort, especially when after those 6 pipes the total length of exhaust piping to the turbo is still 5-6 feet.

 

[Dethred]

I have a better question for Kyle, himself. If you plan on having the right manifold connect to a pipe routed behind the engine, how do you plan on fitting the piping back there? You have the EGR, air suction pipe, heater hoses, vacuum lines, VIS lines, Transmission dipstick, firewall, etc to deal with. You have got to have the manifold empty towards the front or you're going to have more headaches than making sure the wiring harness doesn't fry.

 

[Dethred]

This is ridiculous, how old are you guys?

Im with Legend4life, that Kyle is actually trying to do something instead of sitting around arguing on the internet talking about what they THINK they know.

Dethred has good points about the setup and the distance, and the twin type setup, but it is realistically alot harder to try that type of setup.

Im not getting into an argument with anyone, but just let Kyle make his kit. He will have dynos and we will all see. People who want it will buy it, if you dont like what you see stfu and keep your money in your pocket.

...

Oh ok, I must be a kid because I am sick of people supporting halfassed work. I merely want to see someone with the balls to do this project do it right. Meanwhile we have idiots who just want a turbo kit for their car even if it will be slower than before. A single turbo setup is obtainable, but you can't route the piping behind the engine and have one head require 4-5 feet of piping to reach the turbine and 2 feet for the other head. Its a design born from ignorance on the forces that make a turbocharged motor more efficient than a Naturally Aspirated motor. I am just afraid that the same thing will happen, another year of the legend's relevence will be gone, Kyle's money will be dried up, and the whole concept of a turbo legend will be forever false.

 

[Dethred]

Imran, you little dolt. I'll break it down for you since I only read the first few sentences of each of your sub-50 IQ posts.

-a 15.5 AUTO legend beat the supposed "225whp" turbo legend.
*Tyler maybe spend 1000 on performance mods, ~1/5th of what Kyle did.
*The fact that this "225whp" car only made 200whp on the dyno is kinda amusing.
*If a 15.5 second car can beat a turbo'ed car, there are serious issues.
-The kit DOESN'T work. Stop saying it does because it is a waste at this point. Engine management is the only thing that will make the engine put out worthy power for the money, so please shut up about the car not needing engine management. :****:
-Max pressure at 4000+rpm at 7psi is horrible, and minutely changing the manifold design will not change it enough to make the kit driveable on an auto legend.
-Finally, end yourself, you have no idea what you're talking about. You claim engine management is not needed even though the kit isn't making enough HP to make it worth 4-5 grand. You also claim that the new manifolds will work when you have no clue, and you know somewhere in that mixed up mind of yours that it won't make a difference worth the work. You're an advocate of doing what all the boy racers want to do. "Hey lets throw a turbo on it so we can say we turbocharged the thing, it doesn't matter if we can't go above 10psi and the thing makes enough power to keep up with a N/A version of my car, it still sounds cool".

This looks like another half assed job to try and fix a full sized problem. Its the equivalent of doing a head gasket job without resurfacing the heads, its pointless to do all the work without doing it right the first time.