[mrkeith]

I will put down funds for proven, as it applies to a Legend, engine management.

k.

 

[legend4life]

I will put down funds for proven, as it applies to a Legend, engine management.

k.

You are one of the few sir. There certainly isn't a large Legend market for it though. It's too expensive for most cheap Legend owners.

But anyway you don't count, you are a baller lol.

 

[SURPMSC]

The SAFCII and other piggybacks are not ideal and crude methods that do work, but how many Legend owners are ready to drop an additional couple thousand for real engine management and then 5-600 for real tuning?

Just my opinion.

The SAFC II is sufficient on lower boost setups like you've said. But whats really important is all the other variables that come in play. Add in the timing, the ignition, the fuel, and you're good to go. With an EMS or haltech, he can adjust all of that instead of just solely relying on fuel duty.

The thing is, the engine can take 3x the amount of pressure cause by the turbo, its just leaning conditions raise it to that level.

 

[Dethred]

His manifold seriously aren't going to help a whole lot. The only distance between that setup and stock is the runner length, they still hit a wall. Fuel isn't a problem with all the AFC's out there, ignition timing is our problem, as it is computer controlled and our ECU's aren't very adaptable in that department. He still has a good 2 feet, yes TWO FEET from the manifold to the turbo, on an otherwise unmodded motor (maybe even THREE Feet from the opposite head from the turbo). Combine restrictive manifolds with that distance and you have horrible lag again. So basically there is no ignition control, lag, etc. If he makes over 280whp with that setup, adjusted for elevation, I will be impressed. The only problem with that, as DV8 said, is that you can get that much power with less than 1/4 of the money. Again I hope he proves us wrong, but it really looks as if he has changed practically nothing.

PS: An LS1 Camaro owner can buy a twin turbo kit for about 5k and make over 500 more wheel HP and torque than stock (albeit not for long). I know its a matter of mass production, but making the parts yourself should be even less. If a kit was produced for the legend that could make a decent 300-350fwhp for under 6 grand I would be very likely to consider going that route instead of buying an LS1 Tran Am next summer after graduation.

PPS: Hell, why not just make the piping, and handle the Engine management, and let the buyer choose the turbo and accessories on his own after the cost of the whole setup? You could make manifolds, piping, and Engine management for under 3k if you pinch pennies, the rest can be left to the buyer.

 

[legend4life]

His manifold seriously aren't going to help a whole lot. The only distance between that setup and stock is the runner length, they still hit a wall. Fuel isn't a problem with all the AFC's out there, ignition timing is our problem, as it is computer controlled and our ECU's aren't very adaptable in that department. He still has a good 2 feet, yes TWO FEET from the manifold to the turbo, on an otherwise unmodded motor (maybe even THREE Feet from the opposite head from the turbo). Combine restrictive manifolds with that distance and you have horrible lag again. So basically there is no ignition control, lag, etc. If he makes over 280whp with that setup, adjusted for elevation, I will be impressed. The only problem with that, as DV8 said, is that you can get that much power with less than 1/4 of the money. Again I hope he proves us wrong, but it really looks as if he has changed practically nothing.

PS: An LS1 Camaro owner can buy a twin turbo kit for about 5k and make over 500 more wheel HP and torque than stock (albeit not for long). I know its a matter of mass production, but making the parts yourself should be even less. If a kit was produced for the legend that could make a decent 300-350fwhp for under 6 grand I would be very likely to consider going that route instead of buying an LS1 Tran Am next summer after graduation.

PPS: Hell, why not just make the piping, and handle the Engine management, and let the buyer choose the turbo and accessories on his own after the cost of the whole setup? You could make manifolds, piping, and Engine management for under 3k if you pinch pennies, the rest can be left to the buyer.

You are just guessing/assuming it won't help alot, incorrectly, in my opinion. The manifold will be fine, maybe we will just have to wait and see then. But IMO there is nothing wrong with his new manifold setup. Many top of the line popular ram-horn or tubular style turbo manifolds have a similar distance from the heads to the turbo. There are no more restrictive manifolds in the setup. The piping is of adequate size and it replaces all stock manifolds. Lag is also caused by turbo sizing. You can choose a smaller turbo or a smaller turbine side and reduce lag if that is your desire. Again ignition control is not his problem, he is making a turbo kit, not engine management. If you want ignition control, then buy a standalone. There are many out there.

The power limitation of the setup will be the fuel system and tuning ability (fmu, stock injectors, safc), not the manifolds. A turbo kit is not meant to replace nitrous for bang for the buck. Nitrous always has been and always will be the best bang for the buck for making power. Nitrous is cheap and easy power. But you have to keep re-filling nitrous, before racing ensure bottle is always full and heated and at optimum pressure, etc. Turbo is always there and ready whenever. But it costs alot more. Obviously each has its pro's and con's. He is making a turbo kit for those that want it. I give him props.

Not calling you out, but I'd love to see a stock moyot ls1 making 800whp from just a 5k turbo kit. Never seen anything like that before. Also making the parts yourself costs more. It takes your own time, and who wants to spend all their time doing something with no gain to them? Time=money.

Engine management is not usually included in turbo kits. If it is that is much more of a huge expensive complete package upgrade, not just a turbo kit. Most people would rather choose their own engine management choises according to their own goals and budget. Not everyone wants a standalone. The turbo, manifolds, oil lines/related parts, and sometimes ic piping and intercooler are. Many times you can pick from various turbo choices.

 

[SURPMSC]

You are just guessing/assuming it won't help alot, incorrectly, in my opinion. The manifold will be fine, maybe we will just have to wait and see then. But IMO there is nothing wrong with his new manifold setup. Many top of the line popular ram-horn or tubular style turbo manifolds have a similar distance from the heads to the turbo. There are no more restrictive manifolds in the setup. The piping is of adequate size and it replaces all stock manifolds. Lag is also caused by turbo sizing. You can choose a smaller turbo or a smaller turbine side and reduce lag if that is your desire. Again ignition control is not his problem, he is making a turbo kit, not engine management. If you want ignition control, then buy a standalone. There are many out there.

The power limitation of the setup will be the fuel system and tuning ability (fmu, stock injectors, safc), not the manifolds. A turbo kit is not meant to replace nitrous for bang for the buck. Nitrous always has been and always will be the best bang for the buck for making power. Nitrous is cheap and easy power. But you have to keep re-filling nitrous, before racing ensure bottle is always full and heated and at optimum pressure, etc. Turbo is always there and ready whenever. But it costs alot more. Obviously each has its pro's and con's. He is making a turbo kit for those that want it. I give him props.

Real log manifolds are designed differently then his. If you picture detonations occuring out of the runners, they go every which way until it reaches the exhaust flange. This results in poor flow and even poorer turbine response.

These are how real log manifolds look like

See how the outer runners force other runners to end up at the flange? This results in better spool and response. The manifold designed by labrat looks more like an intake manifold design.

 

[Dethred]

-I have given him props.
-I didn't say the new manifolds wouldn't help, just that the effort being put into them is a waste, why not make the real deal?
-Sure turbine size is a major factor, but how many performance turbo cars have you seen with a yardstick between the combustion and the turbine?
-As I said, ignition timing is the only thing we lack, DV8 has plenty of fuel for his nitrous setup (with pump etc) but said he was detonating due to the inability to retard ignition timing.
-For the last time my point is that he's redoing the project with minimal changes expected a complete turn around. He made about 200whp adjusted for altitude with his last setup, extending the manifold piping out 3-4 inches (which is essentially the only change as far as we can tell) will not yeild him enough power to make this kit worthwhile for $1,500 much less 4-5 grand.

 

[Dethred]

Real log manifolds are designed differently then his. If you picture detonations occuring out of the runners, they go every which way until it reaches the exhaust flange. This results in poor flow and even poorer turbine response.

These are how real log manifolds look like

See how the outer runners force other runners to end up at the flange? This results in better spool and response. The manifold designed by labrat looks more like an intake manifold design.

You hit the nail on the head!

 

[legend4life]

Real log manifolds are designed differently then his. If you picture detonations occuring out of the runners, they go every which way until it reaches the exhaust flange. This results in poor flow and even poorer turbine response.

These are how real log manifolds look like

See how the outer runners force other runners to end up at the flange? This results in better spool and response. The manifold designed by labrat looks more like an intake manifold design.

A "real" log manifold is a cheap design manifold generally made becuase it costs less than a tubular style which is optimal for power. It is already understood his isn't a standard average log style. He has already stated it is a blow through style. The purpose of that is for connecting both banks of the engine (V6) to the turbo, it is called a cross-pipe. Obviously we can see the appearance of his manifold also appears to be that of a sheet metal style intake manifold. It may not be optimal, but it will work fine. If you can create a better design that will work and fit on the Legend please do.

Also "detonation" occurs within the combustion chamber, not the exhaust manifolds. Detonation is a bad thing, it is uncontrolled combustion and causes damage to the engine. It is also known as knock or ping, it is to be avoided under all circumstances. What goes through the exhaust manifold runners are pulses of exhaust energy, not "detonations".

 

[legend4life]

-I have given him props.
-I didn't say the new manifolds wouldn't help, just that the effort being put into them is a waste, why not make the real deal?
-Sure turbine size is a major factor, but how many performance turbo cars have you seen with a yardstick between the combustion and the turbine?
-As I said, ignition timing is the only thing we lack, DV8 has plenty of fuel for his nitrous setup (with pump etc) but said he was detonating due to the inability to retard ignition timing.
-For the last time my point is that he's redoing the project with minimal changes expected a complete turn around. He made about 200whp adjusted for altitude with his last setup, extending the manifold piping out 3-4 inches (which is essentially the only change as far as we can tell) will not yeild him enough power to make this kit worthwhile for $1,500 much less 4-5 grand.

What's the real deal to you? A good near equal length well flowing manifold design utilizing both banks of cylinders and placing the turbo close to the heads all while fitting perfectly in the Legend? It's not as easy to do as it is to say. There is no room. Try doing it.

FYI, again, there are many high power cars with a turbo several feet from the combustion chamber. It works fine and can make huge power. Yes closer is ideal, but there is no room in the Legend.

Again, he doesn't need to find the solution for retarding ignition timing. It's been found. A long time ago. Just like on every other car. It's called standalone. Anyone who wants it can buy it, wire it up, and get it tuned.

 

[Dethred]

Also "detonation" occurs within the combustion chamber, not the exhaust manifolds. Detonation is a bad thing, it is uncontrolled combustion and causes damage to the engine. It is also known as knock or ping, it is to be avoided under all circumstances. What goes through the exhaust manifold runners are pulses of exhaust energy, not "detonations".

You didn't read what I said. I was refering to detonation, pre-ignition, knock, etc. How on earth did you think I was refering to the exhaust manifolds when talking about engine knock??? Without a retarding of the ignition pulse the compressed air will ignite the fuel too early or late causing damage to the engine, sometimes catastrophic. There is a reason why people buy EMS units instead of SAFC's, because they can control ignition timing as well as fuel loads. There is also a reason why people don't make decent power without ignition timing, because they don't want to ruin their engines and the lower power per pressure unit will not be worth the risk.

A log style manifold with an outlet facing the front of the car will yeild a better result than what he has made. The distance between the combustion and the turbine is critical. I just read that he is going to run one of the pipes behind the block to join the other on its way to the turbo? That has to be at least 4 feet. Most stock turbocharged motors have have the turbine within about 6-12 inches from the point of combustion. Literally all he has done to the whole setup that made 200whp is extend the manifold piping out 2-3 inches, which will yeild hardly any HP.

Again, read this carefully:

Why take everything apart in order to make a halfassed attempt at changing the outcome? This is a far cry from real progress. I give him props but he needs to find out what will work best and get it done. If anything market it as a turbo kit for 3-4k with nothing but the manifolds, piping, and Engine management.

 

[SURPMSC]

A "real" log manifold is a cheap design manifold generally made becuase it costs less than a tubular style which is optimal for power. It is already understood his isn't a standard average log style. He has already stated it is a blow through style. The purpose of that is for connecting both banks of the engine (V6) to the turbo, it is called a cross-pipe. Obviously we can see the appearance of his manifold also appears to be that of a sheet metal style intake manifold. It may not be optimal, but it will work fine. If you can create a better design that will work and fit on the Legend please do.

Also "detonation" occurs within the combustion chamber, not the exhaust manifolds. Detonation is a bad thing, it is uncontrolled combustion and causes damage to the engine. It is also known as knock or ping, it is to be avoided under all circumstances. What goes through the exhaust manifold runners are pulses of exhaust energy, not "detonations".

I ment detonation as in explosions exciting from the block into the runners, I wasnt referring it in that context.

If I had the money and R&D time, I would create manifolds. Its not that complicating as long as you have the bends, a tig welder, and a test mule car.

These are real manifolds. Note the runners which are ALOT better in flow not to mention more torquey. These are for a V8 btw. The runners are ultra smooth and flow relaly well. These were made in someone's garage with minimal cost.

Now compare it to these.

 

[legend4life]

You didn't read what I said. I was refering to detonation, pre-ignition, knock, etc. How on earth did you think I was refering to the exhaust manifolds when talking about engine knock??? Without a retarding of the ignition pulse the compressed air will ignite the fuel too early or late causing damage to the engine, sometimes catastrophic. There is a reason why people buy EMS units instead of SAFC's, because they can control ignition timing as well as fuel loads. There is also a reason why people don't make decent power without ignition timing, because they don't want to ruin their engines and the lower power per pressure unit will not be worth the risk.

A log style manifold with an outlet facing the front of the car will yeild a better result than what he has made. The distance between the combustion and the turbine is critical. I just read that he is going to run one of the pipes behind the block to join the other on its way to the turbo? That has to be at least 4 feet. Most stock turbocharged motors have have the turbine within about 6-12 inches from the point of combustion. Literally all he has done to the whole setup that made 200whp is extend the manifold piping out 2-3 inches, which will yeild hardly any HP.

Again, read this carefully:

Why take everything apart in order to make a halfassed attempt at changing the outcome? This is a far cry from real progress. I give him props but he needs to find out what will work best and get it done. If anything market it as a turbo kit for 3-4k with nothing but the manifolds, piping, and Engine management.

I read what you said, you are confused on what I said. Go back and check again, I qouted and replied to IdrewFelix in that post, not you.

You are saying the same thing over and over and not realizing that you are incorrect. Ignition timing can be retarded with any real engine management system. They are already available. Kyle doesn't want to run one. If you do, then it is available for you to go and purchase. However, as everyone has stated many times now, cars can also be turbo'ed and run lower boost and power levels on stock ecu and cheap piggyback setups and run fine.

He has not just literally extended piping 4 inches. He was using stock manifolds before. He is now using complete built from scratch new larger manifolds now. That is the main difference. Before = no turbo manifolds, just a restrictive up-pipe setup from the tiny stock manifolds. Now = new complete built from scratch larger diameter non-restrictive turbo manifolds.
FYI the old setup made 225whp at 7.5psi. The large T4 turbo is not even in its efficiency range at 7.5psi. Again, the limitation of the setup is not the manifolds, it is the fuel setup and tuning. FYI even the old up-pipe stock manifold setup was easily capable of at least 300+ or more hp in terms of manifold flow. Other similar cars such as the FWD V6 Maxima's have made well over 400 hp on setups similar to his old one.

He IS finding out what will work best and getting it done. Again, engine management doesn't come with turbo kits. Not everyone wants it, and wants to give up the reliability, comforts, and ease of the stock ecu, or can afford it, or even needs it. If you want it, you can go out and buy it, it is already available.

 

[Dethred]

What's the real deal to you? A good near equal length well flowing manifold design utilizing both banks of cylinders and placing the turbo close to the heads all while fitting perfectly in the Legend? It's not as easy to do as it is to say. There is no room. Try doing it.

Critical thinking is the real deal with me. Gary Depreist did it, its a matter of moving the coolant resevoir, battery, fuse box, relay box, and stock airbox. Two small turbos (with a combined higher output than Kyles') can easily fit in those areas. He made the flanges, why not just modify the log manifolds to face forwards and do that. That would take roughly 4-5 feet off the total exhaust distance between each cylinder head and the turbine exhaust inlet.

FYI, again, there are many high power cars with a turbo several feet from the combustion chamber. It works fine and can make huge power. Yes closer is ideal, but there is no room in the Legend.

What high powered cars that haven't been modified from stock? Any of them only put out 200 in factory trim?

Again, he doesn't need to find the solution for retarding ignition timing. It's been found. A long time ago. Just like on every other car. It's called standalone. Anyone who wants it can buy it, wire it up, and get it tuned.

DUH, a-hole, offering a prewired EM unit is the aim. Jesus Christ just shut up about it, you think adding 2-3 inches onto the manifold piping will make enough difference to make this kit worth buying? Instead of being a patronizing why don't you tell me what you think this small modification to his previous low powered setup will yeild? If you say anything over 225hp at the wheels you need a perma-ban. I suggested including a proven, tested, and setup EM unit be included with decent manifolds with less than 3 feet between the exhaust outlet on the cylinder heads and the turbine inlet. That will be more consumer friendly than buying a kit (with an included turbo) that, at its very best, might get a good driver into a low 14 second 1/4 mile after 4 grand in investments. :vomit: I garauntee not one person will buy this kit for more than 3 grand if it doesn't make over 240-250whp adjusted for altitude. On the current track its bound to fail.

Do it once, do it right. How many turbo kits are on the market that look like that and may yeild a max gain of only 50-60whp and make the car about as fast as a BMW 330ci?

 

[Dethred]

I read what you said, you are confused on what I said. Go back and check again, I qouted and replied to IdrewFelix in that post, not you.

You are saying the same thing over and over and not realizing that you are incorrect. Ignition timing can be retarded with any real engine management system. They are already available. Kyle doesn't want to run one. If you do, then it is available for you to go and purchase. However, as everyone has stated many times now, cars can also be turbo'ed and run lower boost and power levels on stock ecu and cheap piggyback setups and run fine.

He has not just literally extended piping 4 inches. He was using stock manifolds before. He is now using complete built from scratch new larger manifolds now. That is the main difference. Before = no turbo manifolds, just a restrictive up-pipe setup from the tiny stock manifolds. Now = new complete built from scratch larger diameter non-restrictive turbo manifolds.
FYI the old setup made 225whp at 7.5psi. The large T4 turbo is not even in its efficiency range at 7.5psi. Again, the limitation of the setup is not the manifolds, it is the fuel setup and tuning. FYI even the old up-pipe stock manifold setup was easily capable of at least 300+ or more hp in terms of manifold flow. Other similar cars such as the FWD V6 Maxima's have made well over 400 hp on setups similar to his old one.

He IS finding out what will work best and getting it done. Again, engine management doesn't come with turbo kits. Not everyone wants it, and wants to give up the reliability, comforts, and ease of the stock ecu, or can afford it, or even needs it. If you want it, you can go out and buy it, it is already available.

A whole new design does not = better.

And he made 200whp after about 4-5 grand of work. When he got to an altitude where he could get higher density air the car shut off. Tyler's N/A sedan beat him in a drag race. Even if the setup were capable of 300whp its not usable in an automatic legend. Full boost (7.5 psi ) at ~4000+rpm? Not worth it. You do understand that he's had to of dumped at least 5-6 grand into the thing and is still slow? My point is 100% correct.

Engine management doesn't come with turbo kits because most kits that exist are for cars that have EMS piggyback systems within affordability. I wish DaveC would come on here, slap you, and teach you some common friggin' sense.

PS: Let me see some 400hp Maxima kits please.

 

[SURPMSC]

your anger and passion is really enjoyable to read dethred lmfao

 

[legend4life]

Critical thinking is the real deal with me. Gary Depreist did it, its a matter of moving the coolant resevoir, battery, fuse box, relay box, and stock airbox. Two small turbos (with a combined higher output than Kyles') can easily fit in those areas. He made the flanges, why not just modify the log manifolds to face forwards and do that. That would take roughly 4-5 feet off the total exhaust distance between each cylinder head and the turbine exhaust inlet.

What high powered cars that haven't been modified from stock? Any of them only put out 200 in factory trim?

DUH, a-hole, offering a prewired EM unit is the aim. Jesus Christ just shut up about it, you think adding 2-3 inches onto the manifold piping will make enough difference to make this kit worth buying? Instead of being a patronizing why don't you tell me what you think this small modification to his previous low powered setup will yeild? If you say anything over 225hp at the wheels you need a perma-ban. I suggested including a proven, tested, and setup EM unit be included with decent manifolds with less than 3 feet between the exhaust outlet on the cylinder heads and the turbine inlet. That will be more consumer friendly than buying a kit (with an included turbo) that, at its very best, might get a good driver into a low 14 second 1/4 mile after 4 grand in investments. :vomit: I garauntee not one person will buy this kit for more than 3 grand if it doesn't make over 240-250whp adjusted for altitude. On the current track its bound to fail.

Do it once, do it right. How many turbo kits are on the market that look like that and may yeild a max gain of only 50-60whp and make the car about as fast as a BMW 330ci?

You really have no idea of what you are talking about. He is making a single turbo kit that will work just fine, if you don't like it, then don't buy it. If you think you can do better, then quit bltching and design something better.

Modified from stock or not has nothing to do with the turbo being 3 feet away from the heads. Modified or stock, turbos and manifolds, work the same way. There are MANY cars with similar setups making big numbers. Do some research.

Who needs a pre-wired standalone engine management system? The majority of standalones on the market are NOT pre-wired. Those you have to wire them in on EVERY CAR. You want to convert a Legend from N/A to turbo'ed and MUST HAVE a standalone but are scared to do a bit of wiring?

Again, you don't seem to get it. He didn't add inches to his piping. He made new manifolds, while he was previously using the stock manifolds. How much do you want to bet me this setup is capable of more than 225whp?

Your suggestions are YOUR own opinion, but you don't understand not everyone will buy a standalone or needs the headache of it. You also don't understand the power potential of the turbo setup is limited by the fuel system and tuning, but that's not his problem, that's yours. You don't sound like you know much about turbo setups. Do you understand if on the old setup he turned up the boost to 12 psi he would have made more than 260whp? This would have been on the OLD setup. The new one may do better. The kit will sell fine if you stop flaming it for stupid reasons. If you can do better, then go out and do it and stop sitting there bltching uselessly about a good development for the Legend community.

 

[legend4life]

A whole new design does not = better.

And he made 200whp after about 4-5 grand of work. When he got to an altitude where he could get higher density air the car shut off. Tyler's N/A sedan beat him in a drag race. Even if the setup were capable of 300whp its not usable in an automatic legend. Full boost (7.5 psi ) at ~4000+rpm? Not worth it. You do understand that he's had to of dumped at least 5-6 grand into the thing and is still slow? My point is 100% correct.

Engine management doesn't come with turbo kits because most kits that exist are for cars that have EMS piggyback systems within affordability. I wish DaveC would come on here, slap you, and teach you some common friggin' sense.

PS: Let me see some 400hp Maxima kits please.

FYI as per what I last heard, Tyler's car NA only ran about a 15.5. That's what a stock Type I stick runs. It's nothing special. Kyle's car was faster if he wasn't having the map sensor problems from his ghetto Joule turbo setup.

He made 225whp, get your facts straight or don't post. The shop that did his first setup left him with a buggy setup with many problems. They ripped him off for alot of money and not a well done setup. He spent his money though and it was a first step for getting the first working turbo g2 legend on the forums.

His new setup has nothing to do with that. He is fixing all of the problems and making his own kit to sell. The cost out of his pocket and mediocre results of the previous kit serve as a learning experience, and the benefits are passed on to you, and he fronted the cash for that. The reason the car shut off in lower altidudes is becuase of the map sensor/check valves not being set up properly and the stock ecu not being able to handle higher boost. Do you understand if configured properly it can work fine? Go read up on turbo hondas running on the stock ecu.

Not usable in an automatic Legend? FYI Tyler's Legend is automatic. So was DV8's when he ran the fastest Legend 1/4 mile time ever. The fastest drag cars are auto's. Do you ever think before you post?

" @ Full boost of 7.5 psi @ 4000rpm" ? This was the ghetto Joule setup. FYI full boost at 4,000 rpm is not bad. Most turbo cars would be happy to have that. If you spool at like 2,000 rpm it is likely the power will die off uptop and the turbo will run out of steam.

"EMS piggyback" there is no such thing. You either have a piggyback on stock ecu, or an engine management system that replaces it. At least learn the basic terminology before you post. Turbo kits don't come with "EMS" systems becuase a turbo kit is just that. A turbo kit........a turbo, manifolds, and some piping. They can't include every upgrade YOU WANT for your car. NOT EVERYONE WANTS OR NEEDS A STANDALONE. Not everyone can afford it either. If turbo kits came with standalones and were several thousand dollars more, that many less people could afford them. They would sell that much less. Does a nitrous kit come with a bigger exhaust or engine management??

Whether you think so or not, the new design is better. Your point is incorrect and useless.

Please tell DaveC to come on here and slap me and teach me some common sense. You can listen to DaveC, he is the one who always put down the possiblity of a turbo Legend even happening becuase we don't have engine management. The rest of us who want to go fast can get turbo and be quick. It has already happened, and on stock ecu. Just like most turbo hondas are. If you want engine management, good for you, its the best option for optimal performance, and its available. But not everyone wants it, needs it, or can afford it. If you don't understand, making a kit is also about trying to re-coup the costs spent in R&D which he fronted out of pocket and come out with a profit. They need to SELL, and they will sell more the simpler and more affordable they are. The majority of the buyers will keep their motor stock and be fine with a decent gain and on stock ecu.

You are the only one making stupid ignorant statements here. Nothing I have said is inaccurate. I'm tired of correcting you and I'm outta here for now. Just keep your useless negativity to yourself along with your childish and immature name-calling, and wait until he posts his results and you will be proven wrong.

 

[william_s]

*clap* *clap *clap*..... hahaha that was great.... that's why i don't talk about i don't know! ahahha.... but yeah....

Kyle keep up the good work... i just think ppl don't understand that this is a proto type kit and that the "real" kit will not be like this.... that it will about be do up right after you get all the right parts done first...

i hope you can pull this off... i as well as a few other ppl are waiting and applauding you for your work.

I hope you get this up soon... for now... have a good one and good luck!!! :werd:

 

[sr79labrat]

Thanks for helping me explain this guys! I appreciate you getting my back. I do feel as if I am helping some people on this forum.
More updates to come!
Lata, KTW