[knucks3man]

This is ridiculous, how old are you guys?

Im with Legend4life, that Kyle is actually trying to do something instead of sitting around arguing on the internet talking about what they THINK they know.

Dethred has good points about the setup and the distance, and the twin type setup, but it is realistically alot harder to try that type of setup.

Im not getting into an argument with anyone, but just let Kyle make his kit. He will have dynos and we will all see. People who want it will buy it, if you dont like what you see stfu and keep your money in your pocket.



...

 

[Dethred]

Imran, you little dolt. I'll break it down for you since I only read the first few sentences of each of your sub-50 IQ posts.

-a 15.5 AUTO legend beat the supposed "225whp" turbo legend.
*Tyler maybe spend 1000 on performance mods, ~1/5th of what Kyle did.
*The fact that this "225whp" car only made 200whp on the dyno is kinda amusing.
*If a 15.5 second car can beat a turbo'ed car, there are serious issues.
-The kit DOESN'T work. Stop saying it does because it is a waste at this point. Engine management is the only thing that will make the engine put out worthy power for the money, so please shut up about the car not needing engine management. :****:
-Max pressure at 4000+rpm at 7psi is horrible, and minutely changing the manifold design will not change it enough to make the kit driveable on an auto legend.
-Finally, end yourself, you have no idea what you're talking about. You claim engine management is not needed even though the kit isn't making enough HP to make it worth 4-5 grand. You also claim that the new manifolds will work when you have no clue, and you know somewhere in that mixed up mind of yours that it won't make a difference worth the work. You're an advocate of doing what all the boy racers want to do. "Hey lets throw a turbo on it so we can say we turbocharged the thing, it doesn't matter if we can't go above 10psi and the thing makes enough power to keep up with a N/A version of my car, it still sounds cool".

This looks like another half assed job to try and fix a full sized problem. Its the equivalent of doing a head gasket job without resurfacing the heads, its pointless to do all the work without doing it right the first time.

 

[Dethred]

This is ridiculous, how old are you guys?

Im with Legend4life, that Kyle is actually trying to do something instead of sitting around arguing on the internet talking about what they THINK they know.

Dethred has good points about the setup and the distance, and the twin type setup, but it is realistically alot harder to try that type of setup.

Im not getting into an argument with anyone, but just let Kyle make his kit. He will have dynos and we will all see. People who want it will buy it, if you dont like what you see stfu and keep your money in your pocket.

...

Oh ok, I must be a kid because I am sick of people supporting halfassed work. I merely want to see someone with the balls to do this project do it right. Meanwhile we have idiots who just want a turbo kit for their car even if it will be slower than before. A single turbo setup is obtainable, but you can't route the piping behind the engine and have one head require 4-5 feet of piping to reach the turbine and 2 feet for the other head. Its a design born from ignorance on the forces that make a turbocharged motor more efficient than a Naturally Aspirated motor. I am just afraid that the same thing will happen, another year of the legend's relevence will be gone, Kyle's money will be dried up, and the whole concept of a turbo legend will be forever false.

 

[Dethred]

I have a better question for Kyle, himself. If you plan on having the right manifold connect to a pipe routed behind the engine, how do you plan on fitting the piping back there? You have the EGR, air suction pipe, heater hoses, vacuum lines, VIS lines, Transmission dipstick, firewall, etc to deal with. You have got to have the manifold empty towards the front or you're going to have more headaches than making sure the wiring harness doesn't fry.

 

[knucks3man]

Like I said, your idea of the setup is much better and I have even talked to Kyle about it.

But it is much harder. He is doing what he is doing, so just let him either succeed or fail.

We will all see, instead of bashing him.

 

[sr79labrat]

I have a better question for Kyle, himself. If you plan on having the right manifold connect to a pipe routed behind the engine, how do you plan on fitting the piping back there? You have the EGR, air suction pipe, heater hoses, vacuum lines, VIS lines, Transmission dipstick, firewall, etc to deal with. You have got to have the manifold empty towards the front or you're going to have more headaches than making sure the wiring harness doesn't fry.

Dethred- I do plan on routing the piping down and under the car inbetween a brace type structure and the tranny pan. the EGR supposedly is not necessary to run this setup-it will have a blocking plate, but appear to be fully functional. If the car dosnt run well or pass emissions I will hook it up to the set up. The tranny lines have been easily rerouted. There are less headaches going towards the back of the car-trust me. I will do my manifolds my way. My turbo kit-MY WAY.

Seriously, to all of you wanting to "do it right"- I challenge you to make a better kit than me(gains, feasibility to install, cost and efficiency ect.) and have it mass produced. If you do and I honestly agree it is better than I will pay you $250.00. If you can not do this then I dont want to hear your negative comments any more.

Thanks for all of the other positive feedback to those of you willing to give helpful advice.
Kyle

 

[legend4life]

Imran, you little dolt. I'll break it down for you since I only read the first few sentences of each of your sub-50 IQ posts.

-a 15.5 AUTO legend beat the supposed "225whp" turbo legend.
*Tyler maybe spend 1000 on performance mods, ~1/5th of what Kyle did.
*The fact that this "225whp" car only made 200whp on the dyno is kinda amusing.
*If a 15.5 second car can beat a turbo'ed car, there are serious issues.
-The kit DOESN'T work. Stop saying it does because it is a waste at this point. Engine management is the only thing that will make the engine put out worthy power for the money, so please shut up about the car not needing engine management. :****:
-Max pressure at 4000+rpm at 7psi is horrible, and minutely changing the manifold design will not change it enough to make the kit driveable on an auto legend.
-Finally, end yourself, you have no idea what you're talking about. You claim engine management is not needed even though the kit isn't making enough HP to make it worth 4-5 grand. You also claim that the new manifolds will work when you have no clue, and you know somewhere in that mixed up mind of yours that it won't make a difference worth the work. You're an advocate of doing what all the boy racers want to do. "Hey lets throw a turbo on it so we can say we turbocharged the thing, it doesn't matter if we can't go above 10psi and the thing makes enough power to keep up with a N/A version of my car, it still sounds cool".

This looks like another half assed job to try and fix a full sized problem. Its the equivalent of doing a head gasket job without resurfacing the heads, its pointless to do all the work without doing it right the first time.

Yeah seriously how old are you? It's not even worth anybodys time reading and responding to your useless posts. ALL of your points are WRONG, INACCURATE, OR USELESS. You don't know what you're talking about, and are too hard headed and and stubborn and lost in your ignorance to learn anything. Quit your useless flames,

What the hell do YOU know about standalone engine management? YOU are trying to tell ME the importance of it? Get a clue.......if you want engine management, then stop bltching and go GET IT. If you want to see in reality YOUR OPINION of a better turbo setup, then STFU and GO MAKE IT HAPPEN. What have YOU done or accomplished with the Legend? Besides sitting on the computer bench racing and flaming away like an internet wannabe turbo expert? And a failed head gasket job? Like Kyle challenged you, if you can do better, then STFU AND GO DO IT. PUT UP OR SHUT UP.

 

[SURPMSC]

Have any of you actually delt with turbocharged cars.. really..

 

[Dethred]

Yeah seriously how old are you? It's not even worth anybodys time reading and responding to your useless posts. ALL of your points are WRONG, INACCURATE, OR USELESS. You don't know what you're talking about, and are too hard headed and and stubborn and lost in your ignorance to learn anything. Quit your useless flames,

What the hell do YOU know about standalone engine management? YOU are trying to tell ME the importance of it? Get a clue.......if you want engine management, then stop bltching and go GET IT. If you want to see in reality YOUR OPINION of a better turbo setup, then STFU and GO MAKE IT HAPPEN. What have YOU done or accomplished with the Legend? Besides sitting on the computer bench racing and flaming away like an internet wannabe turbo expert? And a failed head gasket job? Like Kyle challenged you, if you can do better, then STFU AND GO DO IT. PUT UP OR SHUT UP.

Old enough to realize when someone like yourself is being a fool

Apparently the idea of constructive criticism is beyond some of you. You, Imran, for instance, failed to answer my question above. I am trying to constructively criticize a project that is on the wrong track. I personally would never spend 6-10k to turbocharge the car because it is not worth it. I would, however, spend 4-5k on a decent setup, not one that is changing little more than the length of the piping on the manifold by 2-3 inches.

No one has "Put up" yet so by your logic we should all shut up.

And IdrewFelix, I have limited knowledge of turbo setups but the few that have installed have been relative successes, except the one that used an FMU and AFC to boost a little D-series Honda. That engine made less power than the owner's previous nitrous kit he had installed.

The other one was a Turbo Probe that is still not fully together yet.

It doesn't take a genius to know that extending 6 pipes 3 inches won't make enough of a difference to justify the effort, especially when after those 6 pipes the total length of exhaust piping to the turbo is still 5-6 feet.

 

[swift]

k

**********

Okay guys lets calm down. I will be honest here.

I don't know much about turbos, only from what i read and hear.

I took off a turbo yesterday off a VW TDI. It had a log manifold design.

**Now answer me this.... what RACE car or built car is using log manifold designs?? All the pics i see of twin turboed, single, or whatever on car in magazines that are producing 500hp or whateve do not have what appears to be a basic log manifold. ??IF i am wrong please provide a pic...

ALSO, you know how comptech makes supercharges for the TL.....so how come they don't have standalones????? they are OB2 but then again we can convert back and forth.

Now some ideas. I believe he is building a basic kit which will let us pic any turbo(why not?) and if you don't like his setup and have SOME cash ...pay him afterwards to build the setup you want done etc and we will all decide the best setup.

I believe in constructive critisism, but PM him and i am sure he will have answers or maybe he might thank you for the good idea.

Keep this thread clean.

 

[SURPMSC]

**********

Okay guys lets calm down. I will be honest here.

I don't know much about turbos, only from what i read and hear.

I took off a turbo yesterday off a VW TDI. It had a log manifold design.

**Now answer me this.... what RACE car or built car is using log manifold designs?? All the pics i see of twin turboed, single, or whatever on car in magazines that are producing 500hp or whateve do not have what appears to be a basic log manifold. ??IF i am wrong please provide a pic...

ALSO, you know how comptech makes supercharges for the TL.....so how come they don't have standalones????? they are OB2 but then again we can convert back and forth.

Now some ideas. I believe he is building a basic kit which will let us pic any turbo(why not?) and if you don't like his setup and have SOME cash ...pay him afterwards to build the setup you want done etc and we will all decide the best setup.

I believe in constructive critisism, but PM him and i am sure he will have answers or maybe he might thank you for the good idea.

Keep this thread clean.

After 400 WHP range, log manifolds become obsolete and tubular/equilenght manifolds are required. Although I wouldnt be surprised if a high hp car did use log manifolds, as they still do flow nonetheless.

Although Superchargers and turbochargers are idential in what they do (forced induction), superchargers are more predictable then turbos because it is driving on belts instead of exhaust. Your RPMS will stay consistent with the supercharger period. And there are cars with superchargers with standalone ecus

The only thing needed to produce a turbo kit is basically a exhaust manifold design/downpipe, and intercooler piping. That is what sets turbo kits different from other cars; the other components (turbos/wastegates/bovs/intercoolers) are all interchangeable other turbo kits providing that they are practical and have the same flange style.

I just hope that the manifold he is currently making is a mock up of something better to come.

 

[swift]

k

I just hope that the manifold he is currently making is a mock up of something better to come. [/QUOTE]

It might be. I give him credit doing all his own welding, cutting, bending and such. It ain't easy. So who knows.

Ps-I was taking about whether the comptech supercharger system on the TL's require standalone...?

 

[SURPMSC]

Nope no setup requires a standalone. Most setups require fuel management though - which can be obtained by piggybacks - Super air flow converters, greddy emanage/ultimate, etc etc

 

[skate4ever999]

hey kyle keep up the good work! give me a call friday!

 

[B+O]

to efficiently run any system, be it Naturally aspirated or Artifically Aspirated by any means of power adding, you need complete control of all basic systems of an IC engine. That means Timing ignition and Fuel. if all you've got is something to keep fuel from falling off of the stock curve, you're not doing anything. If all you've got is something that can just throw the ignition curve off by altering fuel...you haven't done anything.

You need to control the systems completely and independently to run correctly. Stand Alone or piggy back it doesn't matter. but the only piggy-back systems worth anything are stand-alones that i'll refer to Stand-with Systems like a real stand alone ECU that runs the engine while the original ECU deals with other mundane functions like shifting an automatic trans or operating charcoal purge (Information posted by Buzzard-the turbo C guy- is interesting).

If you dont have control over these systems you're sh*t outta luck, point blank. Kyle';s got a turbosystem that's poorly designed we can all agree on that. everything that he's got is poorly designed. but it's a step in the right direction. even the all mighty Legend has to crawl before it can walk. so i guess this is the figuring out the coordination between eyes, legs, arms, feet, and hands.

He'll do what ever he needs to build it.

Now the thing about "altitude" that's not wholly correct. it may produce a slight bit less power at a MUCH higher altitude, but at 25 and 26psi of engine operating pressure it wouldn't loose much power. There's an inefficient operating system and component system at work and that's what needs to be taken care of.

that's it and that's all there is to it. forget all the b*tching back and forth about who is older than whom, and who's ePenis is larger. cause in all probability...mine is the biggest^_^. So everybody calm out and let this thread progress in a civil manner...

*pulls out ePenis and starts spinning it like Homie the Clown's Sock*

 

[SURPMSC]

*pulls out ePenis and starts spinning it like Homie the Clown's Sock*

Well said. I guess all we can do is just wait and see what the labrat has to come up with.

 

[Dv8]

I will do my manifolds my way. My turbo kit-MY WAY.

Seriously, to all of you wanting to "do it right"- I challenge you to make a better kit than me(gains, feasibility to install, cost and efficiency ect.) and have it mass produced. If you do and I honestly agree it is better than I will pay you $250.00. If you can not do this then I dont want to hear your negative comments any more.

We can do nothing and it would probably be better. I sent you my exhaust manifolds 1.4 years ago to have flanges made from them so that you could start to make headers. You never made flanges for the public nor did you make any headers. I thought that if you had a couple dozen flanges made at least people would of been able to buy them from you and attempt to build either a header or turbo manifold, but you dont think that way. You arent effecient, you are part of the corporate business world dabbiling in territory you arent familiar with.

~TRu Hybrid

 

[B+O]

I just read the previous page...LeGeDnD4LiFe...

He said turbo kits dont come with "engime management systems" That's totally false. Find one aftermarket system that comes from someone who sells it as "bolton" and find NO engine management. Whipple Superchargers has Engine Management included. Comptech Has engine Management included. GReddy/Trust has engine managment included, Edlebrock's Civic Turbo kit, and any shop that builds a custom "turbokit", including Forced Air Technologies, has engine management of some form or another included. even if they're a bunch of boxes T'd into the ECU.


i just didn't want anyone to be misguided in thinking if you buy a turbo-kit you'll be ass out if you dont get engine management.

 

[sr79labrat]

We can do nothing and it would probably be better. I sent you my exhaust manifolds 1.4 years ago to have flanges made from them so that you could start to make headers. You never made flanges for the public nor did you make any headers. I thought that if you had a couple dozen flanges made at least people would of been able to buy them from you and attempt to build either a header or turbo manifold, but you dont think that way. You arent effecient, you are part of the corporate business world dabbiling in territory you arent familiar with.

~TRu Hybrid

DV8- You should try that and you will be where you are now-nowhere important. I had made flanges and they are aval. to the public! I had them made about a year ago, and said that anyone who wanted some just needed to ask for me for them. I was planning on having Joule do headers and manifolds with them, but then we know what happened there. I had them made while my car was there at the shop so that we could have headers and turbo manifolds from what you had given me. Like we know- I wasnt going to go back and pay for a hack job. I am trying to get this together for everyone! DV8 - dont pretend that you know me. You are an average gear head just like I am. I have had over 5yrs of auto classes, and while they were not specialized in Acuras, and Turbo I know what I can and cant do. We should be helping each other, but while I am pretty new to this(turbo) material it only seems like you are bashing on me and my project. This is turning into the same thread it was-lets change that.

Kyle

 

[Dethred]

DV8- You should try that and you will be where you are now-nowhere important. I had made flanges and they are aval. to the public! I had them made about a year ago, and said that anyone who wanted some just needed to ask for me for them. I was planning on having Joule do headers and manifolds with them, but then we know what happened there. I had them made while my car was there at the shop so that we could have headers and turbo manifolds from what you had given me. Like we know- I wasnt going to go back and pay for a hack job. I am trying to get this together for everyone! DV8 - dont pretend that you know me. You are an average gear head just like I am. I have had over 5yrs of auto classes, and while they were not specialized in Acuras, and Turbo I know what I can and cant do. We should be helping each other, but while I am pretty new to this(turbo) material it only seems like you are bashing on me and my project. This is turning into the same thread it was-lets change that.

Kyle

I think the problem is that you're mistaking our criticism for "bashing". Trust me everyone wants you to succeed so the notion that we are against you on this is completely false, however when you're on the wrong track something has to be set straight. For instance you have to eliminate the biggest problems with the kit: Piping distance, and produce some sort of ignition timing, whether its paying for a chip to be programmed to handle the pressure, or a standalone for ~$1000. I mean no offense when I say that only a fool would spend $3k+ for what you're making and not wait for a true well thought out system... which will almost definitely never come.

You have the flanges made, so why not just use the stock manifolds, turn them the other direction and run the piping towards the front of the car right off the bat. Eliminating 2-3 feet of extra distance will solve more problems then your halfassed (no offense but that's exactly what it is) attempt at turbo manifolds. I have honestly never seen anyone make anything so flow-resistant in my life. Manifolds operate under sonic or flow tuning, even our stock manifolds don't have all three runners coming out into a flat wall of piping.

My recommendation would have been to completely scrap the whole design you had before and move on to something completely different. Your overall goal should at least be a quick spool and decent power. Most of our cars have automatics, and our power curves are fairly high. Making a setup that spools to max pressure at 4krpm is useless in our cars.

These cars aren't LS1 F-bodies that can spool a rear mounted turbo, they are little honda 3.2 liter low performance engines. The only realistic way of doing it is getting two small twins, putting one where the battery will be moved from, the other from the stock air box, and run your stock manifold to the front and have a maximum of 1.5 feet between the flange at the end of the manifold and the turbine exhaust inlet.

PS: If you use a stock manifold reversed on the stock flange it would be a heck of a lot cheaper, more efficient per dollar, and allow others to add a true equal-length manifold if they choose to with their own money.