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Track Racing Discuss your track racing stories, times, etc. here. NO STREET RACING DISCUSSION. WILL RESULT IN BAN!!! THANK YOU.

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Old 07-30-03, 01:18 AM   #16 (permalink)
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Wow, that was probably the most well put post about street racing I have ever read. I just wanted to say a few things that may or may not have to do with this. First, I used to argue that I had limits on the street. Like, not going on turns or intersections, or places where there are inlets, or wet roads or where visability wasn't good. I would only do brief drags from the speed we were already going, see who pulls, they win, end of story. It has only recently come to my attention that what people are actually doing out there is really stupid stuff, like weaving in 40mph traffic, going through water, places where by-standers could be, and going around turns. Anyways, I'm saying that what I thought were logical limits to me are not shared by majority of street racers out there, willing to race whatever the cost. I know, however that there are many people like me and have a billion limits and never even go past the posted speed. I understand what you guys are trying to keep off of this forum, but I have noticed that the majority of legend owners don't "street race", they do short
drags. You kept talking about knowing how to drive right like it mattered in what I "thought" was a street race. I guess I was ignorant, but that's ok. Like I said, I had no idea people were doing the sort of things they were doing. Also, you have to admit, this IS censorship, no problems with that, but talking about it could lead to talking someone out of it. Why ignore it if it's such a problem? Why not say instead that street racing kills people and stories are frowned upon. At least you will have a chance to change some minds.
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Old 07-30-03, 01:49 AM   #17 (permalink)
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Yes, granted that it may seem like censorship, but there are loads of other web venues that permit such discussion. So, such topics can be seen and discused by exactly the same people should they choose to. They just won't be able to do so at this particular venue.

Disallowing racist banter is also censorship, but it is a more widely accepted line drawn in the sand.

Street racing and racist rhetoric share one thing in common; neither serves any good purpose.

I agree that discussion is a great route to education. Problem is that street races are usually discussed after the fact. Condemning the act after the fact doesn't undo the risk that was taken, and the danger that was posed during the race.

Maybe we could create and sticky an explanation of why street racing is not permitted. The reasoning is pretty obvious, but some people need convincing. This way, there is a source of education without the temptation of having the opportunity to brag about one's stop light encounter.
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Old 07-30-03, 02:02 AM   #18 (permalink)
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Wow Legend GS!!! That is a great post!

I used to street race at any light, where I felt intimidated by the next car. I didn't stop racing because of a tragic accident, or someone I know getting hurt. I stopped racing when I heard how many people it was injuring, how many innocent lifes were damaged or even worse, lost. I would feel guilty racing now. After coming to these forums and seeing how much it is frowned upon.

Thanks for that post LegendGS, hopefully it will make at least a few street racers think twice about that next race.
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Old 07-30-03, 08:57 AM   #19 (permalink)
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Legend GS..... You have a way with words! I don't think anyone could have expained and broken that out any better. anyway, thanks!
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Old 07-30-03, 01:04 PM   #20 (permalink)
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It isn't that it SEEMS like censorship. It IS censorship. Yes, condemning a race after the fact doesn't undo the risk. But it does provide an opportunity to educate the person involved and try to explain why it was irresponsible. Just because you forbid the post doesn't eliminate that a race happened. The risk still occurred. I'd rather be able to discuss what happened than pretend it didn't. Take this post for example. Maybe someone won't streetrace just because of Graeme's post (I have to agree with everyone else...well done ).

The only reason I brought up clear corners and tint is because some were justifying the censorship based on streetracing being illegal. There are lots of illegal things discussed on here.

I just like the idea of being able to discuss something in a mature manner, agree or disagree, and then move on to the next subject. It is what makes our country great! I think people should be able to post something on here without fear of BIG BROTHER Matt or the other moderators censoring their post.

But I'll try to adhere to the "rules" and not post about any streetracing activities, but anyone wanna hear about the last time I robbed a bank?
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Old 07-30-03, 02:14 PM   #21 (permalink)
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street racing is gay, if you want real competition take it to the track,

who cares what civic or accord anyone burned on the street its never a fair battle when it comes to street racing, some might have more advantage then others because its not a controlled area. Most of the street racing stories you hear on forums are from faster cars sayin "how fast are those caravans? I found that i was able to handle them with no problem"

I met someone last year and her 7 year old son was killed by this idiot who was racing in a crx, he lost control and went up the sidewalk and hit the kid who was riding his bike. Its a##holes like those who get on forums and post street racing, they talk about it and brag about it and others wana try it. This isnt the place to talk about street racing, if anyone wants to talk about street racing they should organize their own meet and tell others how they gained 10 car distance on a Daewoo.

I dont meen to flame but this stuff kills way to many people for it to be discussed as if it was altezzas on a ricer forum....

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Old 07-30-03, 02:19 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Shad, I think that I can safely say that we can still educate without going into specifics of each race that occurs.

Ultimately, if the purpose of freely allowing street encounters to be discussed is to provide for an opportunity to condemn the act, we would simply have several repetitious posts. Any discussion outside of condemning it would be tantamount to encouraging it.

Even though I didn't make this rule, I can see why allowing repeated discussion of street racing encounters would not make much sense if all we'll be doing is repeating ourselves over and over again of how such activity is frowned upon.

I think that the discussion sparked in this thread is important. It brings to the forefront the reasoning behind why street racing and the discussion of such is frowned upon by this forum. It doesn't discuss any specific race, but the topic of racing itself; a healthy debate that addresses concerns on both sides of this issue.

Disallowing the posting of street racing encounters isn't meant to stick our collective proverbial heads in the proverbial sand. It is meant to send a message that we as a forum want nothing to do with such irresponsible and reckless behaviour. If someone insists on continuing to street race, I'm certain the he/she would be more than welcome to post at other forums that do allow it.

If that person doesn't care to brag at other forums, then maybe he/she'll be less inclined to participate in it.

Discussing street racing as a topic by itself and discussing street races have two different and likely opposite consequences.

Here we have a discussion on the topic of street racing which seems to be a constructive one. The discussion of street races, as I'm sure you'll agree, isn't likely to be construtive other than possibly educating the person of how stupid it is. I agree. We should strive to educate those who act irresponsibly in their cars, but as I mentioned before, it would simply be repetitous to reply over and over with condemnations of the act.

As you have noticed, this thread has not been deleted. This is because it is a viable discussion. I'm sure that such discussions will not be discouraged as they serve the purpose of education much better than any discussion of specific races ever could.

If nothing else, it might be a good idea to keep this thread on a sticky, and each time an illegal race is mentioned, the thread is replied with a link to this and then locked. This will avoid senseless and hollow discussions while allowing the person to understand why it is frowned upon.

In all of this, I do not recall anyone who mentioned a positive aspect of street racing, but moreso it has been an issue of censorship. This tells me that we are all in agreement that street racing is in fact frowned upon by everyone who has replied to this thread. I do hope, however, that I have also been able to bring to reason the design of such censorship. That the blantant discussion of street races serves no real purpose other than repetition.

Censorship is I'm sure a very debateable concern. However, this isn't a politcal forum but a car forum which, among other things, tries to enourage responsible driving. The discussion of street races will simply be monotonous repetition which for all practical purposes of this forum will be an unwelcome drain on resources.

Again, maybe we could take my earlier mentioned proposal into consideration for dealing with future posts of street racing encounters.

Oh... sorry, another long one.

Quote:
but anyone wanna hear about the last time I robbed a bank?
Sure! You did drive safely while getting away, right?

PS. Thanks, guys.
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Old 07-30-03, 02:21 PM   #23 (permalink)
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If you think it is unfair that your posts about street racing are "censored," then don't post about street racing here! No one is making you type "acura-legend.com" into your browser. Sure you might compare it to Hitler censoring things during the Holocaust but who cares? This is on a server owned by Matt and he gets to say what you can and can't post about. Peace
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Old 07-30-03, 03:58 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by johndftc
If you think it is unfair that your posts about street racing are "censored," then don't post about street racing here! No one is making you type "acura-legend.com" into your browser. Sure you might compare it to Hitler censoring things during the Holocaust but who cares?
Here we go. The old "if you don't like it, leave" argument. Yeah, that solves a lot. Obviously you didn't read my posts closely enough. I TOTALLY DISAGREE WITH STREETRACING! (The caps are on purpose here Matt - Sorry) I have NEVER posted specifically about a streetracing 'event' nor participated in ANY such event. I just think such a broad statement like "No streetracing posts" is going a bit too far.

Quote:
This is on a server owned by Matt and he gets to say what you can and can't post about.
Wait. Who owns this forum? Now I don't know the financial specifics, BUT the minute Matt started asking for donations, it became a 'public' forum. Therefore, we all own the forum and should have some say in what happens here.

I appreciate your post Graeme. You make some great points and it makes sense. Bottom line, I could care less if I NEVER read about streetracing ever again. That would be ideal! But my concern is how far the moderators will go. How much more will they censor? You know all those posts (pics) by Leon of the scantily clad women. I for one was offended by those as I'm sure a few others were as well. But some like to degrade women that way. Will Leon start to censor himself?

Quote:
Sure! You did drive safely while getting away, right?
Of course!
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Old 07-30-03, 04:06 PM   #25 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by Shad_93LSCoupe
Here we go. The old "if you don't like it, leave" argument. Yeah, that solves a lot. Obviously you didn't read my posts closely enough. I TOTALLY DISAGREE WITH STREETRACING! (The caps are on purpose here Matt - Sorry) I have NEVER posted specifically about a streetracing 'event' nor participated in ANY such event. I just think such a broad statement like "No streetracing posts" is going a bit too far.



Wait. Who owns this forum? Now I don't know the financial specifics, BUT the minute Matt started asking for donations, it became a 'public' forum. Therefore, we all own the forum and should have some say in what happens here.

I appreciate your post Graeme. You make some great points and it makes sense. Bottom line, I could care less if I NEVER read about streetracing ever again. That would be ideal! But my concern is how far the moderators will go. How much more will they censor? You know all those posts (pics) by Leon of the scantily clad women. I for one was offended by those as I'm sure a few others were as well. But some like to degrade women that way. Will Leon start to censor himself?



Of course!
Sorry about sounding a little fascist or whatever, i was in a bad mood at the time and probalby shouldn't have been posting on a public forum. Please forgive me if i offended you or misconstrued any of your posts, I have much respect for what you have said I agree with everything you said and hope this won't put me in the category of "stupid flaming newbies" or whatever. Anyway, i agree that this is a public forum and I don't really know why i said what i said

Peace
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Old 07-30-03, 04:54 PM   #26 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by Shad_93LSCoupe
But my concern is how far the moderators will go. How much more will they censor? You know all those posts (pics) by Leon of the scantily clad women. I for one was offended by those as I'm sure a few others were as well. But some like to degrade women that way. Will Leon start to censor himself?
Well, this is an issue that relates primarily to the adopted limits of censorship. As mentioned, a whole other discussion altogether.

As far as it relates to the objectification, and degredation of women, I also think that in itself is a debateable issue due to reasons I shan't discuss for fear of being the catalyst for a new debate and tarnishing the integrity of this thread.

I am personally neither offended, nor highly amused (I'll admit to being slightly amused ) by those images, and whatever position this forum chooses to hold on the issue would not make much of a difference to me. I am confident in my principles enough to make my own choices on how I allow these things to affect me.

However, the difference between the two issues is that while understandably offensive such images may be to some, it is an issue that treads in the waters of principles and morals; while street racing is an issue that challenges the mortality of the participant and non-participants alike. It's a dangerous game that deserves the blow of the censorship sword if but one blow was to be delivered.
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Old 08-02-03, 02:20 PM   #27 (permalink)
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Here's a good one!

If someone is stupid enough to race a certain way then let them. If they get injured or Die, let them. If they hurt someone else, then let them go to jail or die with the other person. Let the police take care of the problem, not censorship on a forum that many people donate to. Sure I sound insensative, but the more you try to tighten your grip on rebellion (street racing is a form of rebellion among youth), the quicker it sqeezes through your fingers and is uncontrollable.

I have always said this on here: Let there be street racing discussion but utilize your free speech to show how stupid it is. If the topic isn't discussed at all then do you think all those horror stories are going to effect us?

I race quite often and only in reasonable conditions, not talking about it on the forum has done NOTHING to discourage my behavior.

Sometimes you have to let the problem be located before you can stop it.
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Old 08-02-03, 03:20 PM   #28 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dethred
I race quite often and only in reasonable conditions, not talking about it on the forum has done NOTHING to discourage my behavior.
Apparently, talking about it in this thread hasn't discouraged it either.

No one is turning a blind eye to the problem by not allowing such discussion.

Not allowing such discussion is a stand that this forum has taken against such ignorant and immature behaviour.

We know it exists, we know that it's a problem, but we don't want to be a part of such blatant ignorance.

As mentioned earlier in the thread, it would be nothing but repetitious to have posts of street racing accounts only to reply over and over how idiotic it is.

I think that we have discussed this issue to some depth in this thread, and a reply to a street race discussion with a link here would suffice in educating the uneducated.

There are enough forums around the 'Net to serve examples of what happens when things go wrong, and there are enough forums around the 'Net that are more than willing to give that pat on the back that street racers seek. There really isn't a need for one more.

With reference to letting them die with the other person, it isn't the street racer that we're concerned about. It's the other person.
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Old 08-02-03, 04:30 PM   #29 (permalink)
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Well my friend, all I have to say is the track can be just as dangerous. Most people only race on the street when the conditions are comparable to a track or even safer. Just because its on the street doesnt mean there is more danger most of the time.

Auto-X? I have seen tons of videos or people getting whiped out on the sidelines watching.

Drag strip? I've seen more videos of people wrecking there than I have of street racers hitting stuff. I've had more friends wreck at the track than on the street.

1/4 Oval? Same thing.

My area has been blessed with few accidents in street racing. The people around here know when its relatively safe and when its not safe. Sure its dangerous, getting in your car to go to work is just as dangerous. I personally am more afraid of having a newby driver, an old grandma that cant see, a woman talking on her Cell phone and putting on make up trying to cut across 4 lanes of traffic, or other bad drivers taking me out.

If we write a post about cutting people off and weaving in and out of traffic, then sure, delete it. But if I am racing at 3am on a 4 lane one way street with no pedestrians, no other cars except 1 other car 2 lanes away revving his engine at the stop light, don't be a retard and delete my post or roll your eyes at me saying how dangerous it is to street race. (I am not saying you have offended me or anything, its just some people go overboard with the antagonism)
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Old 08-02-03, 05:16 PM   #30 (permalink)
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In my earlier reply, I mentioned that I understand that everyone here is an adult and should they choose to participate in a race, I'm sure that they are adult enough to know and accept the possiblity that they could very well die in the process.

In this case, I really don't care either way. Accidents, tragic or otherwise, on a drag strip or other properly designated and controlled area is IMO acceptable. For the most part, the only one hurt or killed is the driver. He/she has already accepted that fate simply by participating in the race.

If by-standers/non-participants are injured in a supposed "organized" event, the event was not properly controlled.

Again, it is not the driver that we are concerned about. If a driver is killed racing, he/she was killed by his/her own choices and actions. Not a problem with me. The problem arises when non-participants are hurt or killed.

As mentioned earlier, street races are by definition conducted in uncontrolled environements. True, there are ways to minimize risk by choosing time and place, but how do we tell the difference between one street race story that was conducted in a ghost town and one that was conducted in traffic?

Bottom line is that street racing is inherently dangerous to people including those who are non-participants. I don't care if a street racer runs into a wall. That was his/her choice. However, if there is even a 0.000001% chance that someone other than a participant could get hurt, it's a 0.000001% chance too many.

There are really only two reasons that street racers would stop such activity. One is the simple realization that it is in fact a dangerous game, and the other is having either him/herself or someone they care about die from either crossing the street in front of a couple of cars barrelling down the at them, or while being in such a car themselves.

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