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Second Generation Legend (1991-1995)

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Old 10-06-05, 01:21 PM   #1 (permalink)
 
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Brake Master Cylinder DIY?????

i've been trying to get a hold of MikeD on this one,
but i know he's a busy guy.

i have to change out the MC on my legend and i was wondering if someone
could point me in the direction of where i could find detailed instructions/ DIY?
i've done a search on this and other forums and haven't been able to find one.
i have a helms, but i'm still unclear on some details of doing the work. if it's just a matter of bleeding the brake fluid swapping out the MC and then replacing the brake fluid and how to go about doing that properly?

Last edited by drk9ght; 10-06-05 at 01:22 PM. Reason: spelling
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Old 10-06-05, 02:00 PM   #2 (permalink)
 
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there really are no details to it. just disconnect the brake lines, unbolt the MC, bolt on the new one, reconnect brake lines and bleed. very straight forward.
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Old 10-06-05, 02:12 PM   #3 (permalink)
 
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well i've never done this before and don't want to miss any steps that will
give me more headaches and cost me later.
i just want to know the right way of doing it, especially since my life could
be at stake if i happen to loose my brakes as a result of doing something wrong.
i know the job seems pretty easy.... i think i just need more detailed instruction on how to properly bleed and replace the brake fluid.
i know there is a certain way of doing it and if you don't do it right the brakes
won't work properly.
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Old 10-06-05, 02:18 PM   #4 (permalink)
 
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do you have the helms manual?
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Old 10-06-05, 02:25 PM   #5 (permalink)
 
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yes and i have used it extensively. but in my experience there have been things that the helms didn't account for and wasn't as easy as it seemed on paper. that's why i wanted to tap into anyones experience in this matter,
to save myself the trouble of finding out the hard way.
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Old 10-06-05, 02:43 PM   #6 (permalink)
 
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I hear yea...
I wish I could point you in the direction of greater comfort, but I've done it and it really is as simply as it seems. The thread "HOWTO:Bleed ABS brake system" was very helpful for me.

Oh yeah, I replaced my old bleeder valves (a couple had corroded so the hole was clogged) with speed bleeders, it was a one man job and very clean.
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Old 10-06-05, 03:49 PM   #7 (permalink)
 
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DIY master cyl

Just completed this on my 94 GS last night so I will try to cover it for you... sorry, no pics.

Unless the new unit has the reservoir included you must remove the old one and install the old reservoir on the new m/c. There really is no reason to pay for a new reservoir unless yours is leaking.

1. Remove the reservoir cap and disconnect the two fluid level sensor wires. Use either a kitchen dropper (turkey baster) that you never plan to use in the kitchen again to siphon out as much fluid as you can from the reservoir or a bunch of paper towels to absorb most of it out. The prior method is much more clean and less time consuming.

2. Unbolt the brake lines one at a time with a towel underneath the m/c to catch the little bit of fluid that will leak out when you disconnect the lines. (I highly recommend a 10mm line wrench for any and all brake lines). I had two zip lock bags handy to put over the open brake lines while changing out the m/c to keep fluid from dripping on anything important. Brake fluid will remove paint like nobodyís business!

3. Remove the two 12mm nuts and lock washers holding the m/c against the booster, pull the bracket out of the way and remove the m/c. This is a good spot to note that if the rear seal on the m/c was blown, fluid has probably leaked all over the power booster and I would pay close attention to the booster. If it looks like fluid has entered the booster, you might consider switching it out as well. Fluid will more than likely cause it to fail later down the road if not done so already.

4. Take the new master cyl out of the box, remove the reservoir from the old unit by the two Philips screws inside and mount it to the new unit. Make sure the o-ring around the base of the reservoir is clean before doing so.

5. The new unit will need to be bench bled before being bolted on the car or you are in for a headache once itís installed on the car. The unit should come with two fittings that screw into the holes where the brake lines go and come with plastic tubing to connect to these fittings and run up into the reservoir that you have now filled halfway between min and max to keep from spilling. Place the unit in a vise (I didnít have access to a vise at the time and was able to do mine by holding it and placing the plunger against a firm surface to push in to bleed) and bleed the unit until no air bubbles come out. Keep an eye on the fluid level and donít let it go below the level of the hoses and let air in or you will have to start over. Once you are finished, remove the plastic tubes and install the small caps over the fittings to keep too much air from entering and the fluid from running out while you bolt it up.

6. Mount the m/c using the two 12mm nuts and lock washers but donít tighten all the way yet, just enough so it stays in place. It will need to be loose enough to allow enough play for the two brake lines to be connected. You DO NOT want to risk cross-threading those fittings or you are screwed! If they donít go in easily by handÖ stop and find out why. Remove the plastic bleeder bolts one at a time and start the brake lines into the m/c.

7. Tighten the brake lines up and then tighten the 12mm bolts on the m/c to booster. Fill the reservoir all the way up and starting at the passenger side rear wheel, remove the wheel and with a helper, bleed each wheel until air is no longer exiting the system. Sitting in the car you want to go in this order. PR, DF, DR, PF.

8. Your helper will pump the brakes slowly three times and hold until you open and close the bleeder screw and not let off the pedal (it goes to the floor) until you have the bleeder closed. If your helper lets off the pedal while you have the bleeder open, air will be sucked back into the system and you get to start all over. Just make sure you watch the fluid level because if you run it low, you will have filled the system with air and have to start over by removing and bleeding the m/c like you did before it was installed on the car.

Hopefully I didnít miss anything and wasnít too long winded. :p
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Old 10-06-05, 04:07 PM   #8 (permalink)
 
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thanks bwilder10h!!
i probably won't be able to do the work until the following weekend since it's suppose to rain. i'll let you know how it goes.
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Old 10-06-05, 04:20 PM   #9 (permalink)
 
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Good luck, It's not a bad job at all... kinda sad what the dealer gets to replace these...
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Old 10-06-05, 08:37 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Also clean any brake fluid off with soap and water or take it to the car wash when you are done. As it will eat paint and such.
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Old 11-08-05, 04:57 PM   #11 (permalink)
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someone explain a little more on bench bleeding it, not exactly 100% sure what i need to do about that
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Old 11-08-05, 06:02 PM   #12 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JTJohnny102
someone explain a little more on bench bleeding it, not exactly 100% sure what i need to do about that
here is an article from misterfixit.com:

The basic idea is to create mini hydraulic system on your bench. You can use old brake line fittings if you have them but I didn't so I purchased a master cylinder bleed kit from my local auto parts store. A new MC may include the necessary parts already. The kit should consist of a number of plastic fittings which are designed to fit in the outlets (usually two, front and rear) of your MC. One end of the fittings will be threaded and the other will have a round smooth hose adapter. Thread the appropriate fittings into the outlets on your MC. The kit will also contain a length of plastic hose. My kit had black hose but I found some spare clear hose and used it instead - this will allow viewing of the air bubbles passing through the hose. My kit also had a plastic clip used to hold the two pieces of hose together and clamping to the edge of the fluid reservoir.

Clamp the cylinder firmly in a bench vise so that the cylinder area is level. If it is pointing upwards the air will remain in the cylinder. Slide the hoses onto the fittings. Cut the hoses just long enough to reach into the reservoirs and remain submerged - the shorter the length of hose the better. Place the other ends of the hoses into the fluid reservoirs (you'll probably have hold them in place somehow because once you start pumping they'll want to flail around in the air and spray brake fluid everywhere). If you can get a helper that is ideal.

Fill the reservoirs with new brake fluid, and pump the piston slowly and evenly, full strokes. I used a big Phillips screwdriver because its tip doesn't damage the piston and the handle gives you something to lean against. I would not worry about the fluid getting recirculated because it is brand new and you are creating a temporary hydraulic circuit with the hoses which will not become contaminated with dirt. The air which is still in the system at this point will be bled out. Pump the cylinder until the tubing contains no more air bubbles and no new ones emerge from the MC on the down stroke. On my MC this took about 15 strokes some may require more, some less. Keep going until the air stops as this will make the task of bleeding the brakes in the car much simpler. When all the air is out, mount the cylinder in the car. Here you have to be careful to prevent the fluid still in the hoses from spaying your car and any other painted objects nearby - brake fluid is a great paint remover! If you decide to remove the hoses before installing on the car, make sure to plug up the fittings - I just held the hoses up while transferring from bench to car. Once the MC is mounted in the car, remove the fittings and connect the brake lines. You'll lose a little fluid but the check valves in the cylinder should stop any major leakage. Now you are ready to bleed the brakes in your car and it should be a lot easier than if this step was avoided.
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Old 11-08-05, 06:45 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Post Bench Bleeding

Johnny,
Bench Bleeding means: To install a new MC (master cylinder), what require a bench bleed to ensure, that all the complete air is complete removed out of the unit. It's been a long time since I made this. I can't remember exactly how it worked but I can explain you the basics and what it means.

What It Is
Bench bleeding is found of the idea to create a kind of "Small Hydraulic System" on your bench. When we're talking about "Bench Bleed" it means always: "We Bench Bleed our MC to ensure, that the piston has purged all of the air in the bore". If you bleed the MC, you know that the brake pedal doesn't always move the piston the full length of the bore. It can leave some air behind. When we bench bleed a MC, we want to route the fluid back in the brake reservoir.

When Should I Do This?
It should be performed any time, a new MC is installed. This is a MUST. If the MC is not bled, it will take you at least twice as long to bleed the system, and then there's no guarantee that you'll have removed really all the air out of the system.

Here an interesting article I've found... Bench Bleed Procedure -Mike
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Old 11-08-05, 08:29 PM   #14 (permalink)
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does anyone know how much the dealer wants for this r/r? I might have an MC prob, and I cant change it myself(due to wheelchair situation).

$ info appreciated.
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Old 11-08-05, 08:45 PM   #15 (permalink)
 
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The dealer will want a small fortune ($3-400). I'd check with the local independant shops that are registered with the BBB and start calling.

If you were local, I'd offer to help out...
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