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Second Generation Legend (1991-1995)

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Old 01-20-07, 07:13 PM   #16 (permalink)
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That's great info Mike and something I'm certainly going to take to heart while I'm fixing my BHG on my '91 LS.

Jetdoc - are you going to use FelPro gaskets like you did in the other Legend or are you going to use OEM? Just curious.... oh yeah - thanks for all your contributions to the overheating thread... it's likely one of the best threads on the forum.

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Old 01-20-07, 07:20 PM   #17 (permalink)
 
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Quote:
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Yeah, those damn Legend designers. I can't believe my car still drives perfectly fine with 243,000 miles on it and others with over 300k. These cars suck

Every engine on the earth will blow head gaskets (except Mazda 13b's) after so many miles. I don't see why people think Acura gives a shit about how 15-20 year old Legend engines are doing. It's called design flaws, and every manufacturer on the earth has them. You don't see that same flaw with the RL engine do you? It's the same basic engine, and doesn't have the head gasket problems that the Legend does.


And, uh, no, not every single Legend has a blown head gasket. I had a 92 sedan with almost 200k and never had the head gaskets replaced.
so serious..wow. easy man easy now....
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Old 01-20-07, 08:36 PM   #18 (permalink)
 
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JetDoc: I wanna know more about this car to prevent a bhg for myself and others:

1) Were you using honda coolant? If not, do you know roughly how many miles or years it went with generic coolant? Mike Diaz would probably want to know the answer to this as well, to check his theory
2) Did the car ever have any cooling problems, or did you ever see it overheat?
3) How hard did you push the car? How often did you take the car to 4k, 5k or 6k rpms?
4) Knowing how hard replacing the head gasket was, are you going to do it again this time around? hehe
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Old 01-20-07, 08:45 PM   #19 (permalink)
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would it be a way of preventing a BHG if you pulled the valve cover off of a legend with the original head gaskets and torqued the heads to 62-63 ft. lbs?
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Old 01-20-07, 11:36 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Good question Ken I'd love to know the answer to that! I've never put anything besides honda coolant but what is the problem with the generic stuff? I had a scare one time and almost added some autozone stuff but I came across a honda dealership first!
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Old 01-21-07, 09:23 AM   #21 (permalink)
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Quote:
JetDoc: I wanna know more about this car to prevent a bhg for myself and others:

1) Were you using honda coolant? If not, do you know roughly how many miles or years it went with generic coolant? Mike Diaz would probably want to know the answer to this as well, to check his theory
2) Did the car ever have any cooling problems, or did you ever see it overheat?
3) How hard did you push the car? How often did you take the car to 4k, 5k or 6k rpms?
4) Knowing how hard replacing the head gasket was, are you going to do it again this time around? hehe
1)When I bought it, It appeared to have something other than Honda coolant in it. When I changed the coolant I put Prestone in it. I have driven it approx 40K with Prestone.

The Strange thing here is that My previous 92 Legend's HG leaked air into the cooling system, causing coolant to overflow, fluxing temps, ect.....
This one(94LS) is the opposite. It's leaking coolant ito the cylinder, (2)It's never overheated, never leaked. The signs that cant be denied are the rear passenger cylinder plug is being fouled by coolant when I start it up. The radiator has a dark brown/black sludge in it. I think the reason it hasn't overheated is that I keep on top of the coolant level. I know all the signs of low coolant, like no heat when stopped at the drive thru, ect... I think that once it overheats, I will start to see signs of air in the cooling system.
(3)I never really pushed this car, only a few times over 5K to pass or something. Never raced.
(4)I will do the repair myself. I can't afford to fork out $2200 for something I can do myself. I will use a few shortcuts this time and also get my 15 yr old son to help as he will likely be inheriting this car. It's also due the 180K service.
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Last edited by Jetdoc; 01-21-07 at 09:38 AM.
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Old 01-21-07, 09:31 AM   #22 (permalink)
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would it be a way of preventing a BHG if you pulled the valve cover off of a legend with the original head gaskets and torqued the heads to 62-63 ft. lbs?
I've always wondered if this would work. I think I remember Mike Diaz trying this with no luck. Maybe since I'm only loosing coolant it would be a good time to try it.
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Old 01-21-07, 10:32 AM   #23 (permalink)
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I tried pulling the valve covers and torquing the heads to 63 ft lbs, but my head gaskets had been bad for a while. I don't know if it would be a good preventative maintenance. I did, however, torque the RL heads to 63 ft lbs when I did my recent rebuild.

Jetdoc, it seems you may have one like I had last year. The head gasket split between the oil and coolant passages, allowing oil to enter the coolant. If you have that nasty brown sludge in your coolant, you should drain the oil and check to see how much coolant is in the crankcase. The car I did the head gasket job on came back with a rod smashed through the side of the block less than a year later. I'm guessing the breakdown of the oil on the crank bearings caused premature wear on either the crankshaft or the bearings themselves. I can't say for sure, but that's what I think. I'm going to tear this engine down at some point and find out for sure.

Definitely check (and probably replace) all your heater hoses and radiator hoses because the oil made them too soft, and he just blew a heater shortly after replacing the engine.
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Old 01-21-07, 10:41 AM   #24 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Diaz View Post
I tried pulling the valve covers and torquing the heads to 63 ft lbs, but my head gaskets had been bad for a while. I don't know if it would be a good preventative maintenance. I did, however, torque the RL heads to 63 ft lbs when I did my recent rebuild.

Jetdoc, it seems you may have one like I had last year. The head gasket split between the oil and coolant passages, allowing oil to enter the coolant. If you have that nasty brown sludge in your coolant, you should drain the oil and check to see how much coolant is in the crankcase. The car I did the head gasket job on came back with a rod smashed through the side of the block less than a year later. I'm guessing the breakdown of the oil on the crank bearings caused premature wear on either the crankshaft or the bearings themselves. I can't say for sure, but that's what I think. I'm going to tear this engine down at some point and find out for sure.

Definitely check (and probably replace) all your heater hoses and radiator hoses because the oil made them too soft, and he just blew a heater shortly after replacing the engine.
It seems, on most of the legend head gaskets I have done, that the gasket in the area on the passenger's side rear cylinder (#6?) is always disintegrated. I'm not sure if its from general corrosion and old age, or vibration as Mike says, but from what I've seen re-torquing the heads probably will not help.

On the other hand, you have to be careful overtorquing the head bolts on a new gasket installation. Recently, I had to do a headgasket job on a Toyota 22-RE motor. It was a come-back job that another mechanic in the shop had done - he overtorqued the heads to 75lbs (cant remember the stock # but it was about 15-20 over). The gasket ring around the cylinder was crushed and actually protruded into the combustion chamber. The gasket didn't last long ;-).

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Old 01-21-07, 11:59 AM   #25 (permalink)
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I think a good theory to go with Diaz's is that there are two types of failures but relatively in the same spot.

One blows outside so you can see coolant leaking and residue on outside of block and you get the air in the system and the other one is Jetdoc's experience where the oil and coolant mix and the coolant mixes and burns off but air does not get in system.
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Old 01-21-07, 12:14 PM   #26 (permalink)
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There's another one. Coolant being sucked into the cylinder, and the engine spits it out of the exhaust. My 3.2L engine was doing this, with no external leaks. No oil in the coolant or vice versa.
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Old 01-21-07, 06:44 PM   #27 (permalink)
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i was getting oil inside the coolant for the longest time after the HG job, but replacing the rad seemed to have solved that. never got air inside the system, same as jetdoc, but recently its been worse, losing heat after 30 mins of driving, needa constantly bleed it. Swapping into a JDM motor soon if swift doesnt come through wonder if i should have the head bolts torqued to 63 on the jdm motor.
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Old 01-21-07, 09:55 PM   #28 (permalink)
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I second Mike's suggestion to check the torque on the headbolts. Do the easiest thing first, unless you're stupid like me:

I had to have my left head rebuilt due to a burned exhaust valve. After putting it back together it leaked like a sieve after 30 seconds of perfect running. Thought I damaged the head gasket so I took it apart again and found no problem - the head gasket showed no damage whatsoever.

Put it back together again but this time I added about 10 pounds of torque per bolt to the spec (56 pounds was spec for me) taking it to somewhere between 65-70 pounds. It's run perfect ever since.

And this is a totally free fix. Be sure to use a bar type torque wrench as the repair manual recommends and NOT a click type torque wrench. And retorque the bolts in the proper order.
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Old 01-21-07, 09:58 PM   #29 (permalink)
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I'm With Mike D.

I second Mike's suggestion to check the torque on the headbolts. Do the easiest thing first, unless you're stupid like me:

I had to have my left head rebuilt due to a burned exhaust valve. After putting it back together it leaked like a sieve after 30 seconds of perfect running. Thought I damaged the head gasket so I took it apart again and found no problem - the head gasket showed no damage whatsoever.

Put it back together again but this time I added about 10 pounds of torque per bolt to the spec (56 pounds was spec for me) taking it to somewhere between 65-70 pounds. It's run perfect ever since.

And this is a totally free fix. Be sure to use a bar type torque wrench as the repair manual recommends and NOT a click type torque wrench. And retorque the bolts in the proper order.
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Old 01-22-07, 09:11 PM   #30 (permalink)
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Tonight I removed each head bolt one at a time and retorqued each one to 65 ft. lbs. I would have to say the torque was good. I may have made it worse but it's worth a try at this point. Still no sign of coolant in the oil, just coolant out the exaust.
I'll drive it to work tomorrow and see what happens.

One thing that I realized when doing this was that there are no head bolts in the center of the head. They are only around the edges. I wonder if this contributes to warpage and leaking?
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