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Second Generation Legend (1991-1995)

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Old 07-07-20, 07:47 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Transmission Filter/Strainer/Screens

Hello, it's me again.

I'd like to have some advice with transmission filter/strainer/screen replacements.

I am aware that it is not a normal maintanence item.

However, the car wasn't well looked after in the past, and I do have some shifting problems with the 4spd automatic (future posts incoming).

The car is around one full tank away from 277,000 kilometres (~172,119 miles).

With this in mind, I thought it'd be a good idea to replace it.


***


Firstly, I just want to confirm, that the transmission filter/strainer/screen is on top of the transmission fluid pan, is that correct? And to access it I just need to simply jack up the car, drain the transmission fluid, and unbolt the pan, correct?

Secondly, I've found a few possible replacements on ebay that I would like to turn your attention to.

As I understand I can't post links here yet, so photos will have to do. I am doing my own research on these brands as I type, but I thought I'd try to get some early second opinions while I'm here. So here are the options I've found.

1. The first photo: Should be a screenshot of a transmission filter by Wesfil (stocked by Sparezone) [AUD $19.95].

2. The second photo: Should be a screenshot of a transmission filter service kit by Trupro (stocked by Superspares) [AUD $40.87].

3. The third photo: Should be a screenshot of a transmission filter by Ryco (stocked by Superspares) [AUD $65.24].


***


I've gone to both Sparezone and Superspares for parts before, so I know they're trustworthy sources.

I've used Ryco before with my oil and fuel filters, so I know I can trust the brand. However, they're currently out of stock. There's no word on when they'll restock.

So how about Wesfil and Trupro? Do you know of these brands? Is there any difference between a transmission filter and a transmission filter service kit?

To me, a 'service kit' would also include a gasket, while a 'transmission filter' would just include a transmission filter.

But more important still, is that all three products use the word 'filter'. There are posts on the forum that says not to "get the [transmission] filter", and to get the "oem screen" instead. Seems to me that there's a difference between filter/strainer/screen. I couldn't find any posts explaining the differences, if any. Is this true? Are there differences between them? Does that word make a difference? Are these products worth considering?

Perhaps I'm reading too much into the wording...

Any opinions?

Good day, everyone.
Attached Thumbnails
Transmission Filter/Strainer/Screens-sharedscreenshot-2-.jpg   Transmission Filter/Strainer/Screens-sharedscreenshot2-2-.jpg   Transmission Filter/Strainer/Screens-sharedscreenshot3-2-.jpg  

Last edited by Underthebluesky; 07-09-20 at 02:39 AM.
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Old 07-14-20, 08:03 PM   #2 (permalink)
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On my 94 I had, I remember that what I was told, was you can't or you do not have to replace the screen, just us Honda transmission fluid, when you change it. good luck a transmission could get expensive.
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Old 07-15-20, 02:00 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 94Acleg View Post
On my 94 I had, I remember that what I was told, was you can't or you do not have to replace the screen, just us Honda transmission fluid, when you change it. good luck a transmission could get expensive.
Does that apply even when the transmission had a period of recieving no service? I imagine changing the fluid would rid it of some contaminants, but it wouldn't change existing damage, if any...right?

And indeed, I truly hope the transmission isn't on its way out...

Good day.
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Old 07-20-20, 01:34 PM   #4 (permalink)
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In fact, I change the filter with every oil Change. And there is shodder or dirt in the oil pan of the transmision. Take a look in it.
But your examples of the filters is different of them I know.

Greetings
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Old 07-21-20, 03:35 AM   #5 (permalink)
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In fact, I change the filter with every oil Change. And there is shodder or dirt in the oil pan of the transmision. Take a look in it.
But your examples of the filters is different of them I know.

Greetings
Ralph
Oh interesting; advice duly noted. Thank you!

Which transmission filters do you use?

Thank you and good day.
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Old 07-21-20, 06:57 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Since I could no longer buy the oil pan gasket, I order this one:
https://www.rockauto.com/de/catalog/...ic,filter,8600

It is a kit from ATP wich the gasket includes.
In Germany it is no longer available.

Greetings
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Old 07-22-20, 03:24 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Legend32 View Post
Since I could no longer buy the oil pan gasket, I order this one:
https://www.rockauto.com/de/catalog/...ic,filter,8600

It is a kit from ATP wich the gasket includes.
In Germany it is no longer available.

Greetings
Ralph
Oh! Thank you; I shall take a look at this later!

Good day
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Old 07-25-20, 10:48 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Update:

I've managed to find the transmission filter by Ryco in stock.

It's just arrived...and it doesn't come with an O-ring.

So that's something else to order.

If you are looking to use transmission filters from Ryco...

...Just keep that in mind.

Good day.
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Old 07-27-20, 12:06 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Hello again,

Curious to know; the dimensions for the transmission filter O-ring (19.8x1.9), is it a standard size?

Because, if so, I could simply go to my local parts store and get any odd O-ring with those dimensions, right?

Or is it a particularly specific part?

The part number is 91308-PA9-003.

Thank you, and good day.
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Old 07-29-20, 12:10 AM   #10 (permalink)
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I made a meassurement and find out, that dimension is 21 x 2 mm and so I bought such an O-Ring made of "Viton" or FPM/FKM. This fits well.

Greetings
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Old 07-29-20, 02:11 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Legend32 View Post
I made a meassurement and find out, that dimension is 21 mm x 2 mm and so I bought such an O-Ring made of "Viton" or FPM/FKM. This fits well.

Greetings
Ralph
Thanks for doing this! I saw a Viton O-ring today as well! They did not have a 19.8 x 1.9, unfortunately...

I'm not sure if they have a 21 mm x 2 mm, but I will have a look again later.

If 21 mm x 2 mm are the dimensions...

...Then what is the 19.8 x 1.9 about then? Perhaps that is the inner diameter? And 21 mm x 2 mm are the outer diameters?

Good day!

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Old 07-29-20, 03:28 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Update:

I just came back from checking; I can't find a Viton O-ring with dimensions 21 mm x 2 mm.

What I ended up doing is getting a regular O-ring set that has dimensions 20 mm (ID)* x 2 mm.

It's a little snug, but it fits well otherwise. 1 mm difference...would that cause problems?

Now that I have my O-ring...

...I shall be doing the filter change tomorrow.

Is there any advice on how to go about this aside from the instructions? I do know I'll need new transmission fluid and an 18 mm washer, which I have. I also know that there will be some fluid dropping out from the oil pan removal, and that the bolts for the oil pan are identical, but the bolts for the filter are all different...

But apart from that...is there anything else I need to know?

Thank you for all your replies thus far, and good day.


*ID = Inner Diameter.
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Old 07-30-20, 02:15 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Update:

A few hours of wrenching and much spilled old fluid later, I have finally swapped in the new transmission filter on.

Something that I did not know that one should definitely know when undergoing this job...is that there will be a bit of fluid dropping when you remove the filter. So do make sure you have your oil drain pan underneath.

Speaking of the filter, much like Legend32, I also found that it was quite clogged; present were small and large particles of...something. Flushing it with water, you can see tiny particles falling out. Although, everything else, like the oil pan, and the innards of the transmission...they were quite clean.


***

In taking out the oil pan, I did notice that the drain bolt magnet and the oil pan magnet...were covered with...gunk? Is that normal? I don't have photos of those, unfortunately. Also, included in the photos would be a close-up of the inside of the oil pan. Those scratches(?)...are those normal?

***

There were some slight fitment issues with the Ryco filter bolt holes; one of the bolt holes were welded to the filter body at a slightly different angle to the original.

But it's nothing a few slight adjustments couldn't solve.

The O-ring does it's job; I poured some spare unused fluid down the filler pipe, and I saw no fluid leaking out from where the O-ring sits.

The gasket, on the other hand...did not fit as well as I thought it would. Refer to the photos for details. The yellow gasket is the original one.

My transmission is an MPYA; which according to Ryco, is suitable with the filter kit. However, as you'll see from the photos...the accompanying gasket (darker in colour), while has a thicker material, does not fit completely. The one that came in the kit is actually different from the one listed on the Ryco website, which is the correct one...Interesting.

I will be bringing this up with Ryco, and hopefully they'll respond appropriately.

I did do some testing afterwards though, and there were no leaks at all, so I think I'll just leave it as is for now. I've retained the old gasket just in case. It is intact, but the material is a lot thinner.

Update: 3.08.2020, 12.21.

Ryco has reached out, and it seemed that the incorrect gasket was sent.

Since I couldn't afford to leave the car not running, so I installed the gasket. A few days on, and the still haven't been any signs of leaking. So I am going to leave it as is. In the meantime, I've asked Ryco if there's a way to obtain a new gasket, since I am likely to not be eligable for a refund/replacement at this point.

***

Speaking of testing, the amount of vibrations/shuddering has dropped dramatically. Changing gears from 1st to 2nd (automatically or manually), was a lot more smoother. Changing from 2nd to 3rd was silky smooth! I couldn't go quick enough to test 3rd to 4th; although that transition was always smooth anyway. If anything it'd be even more so now with the new filter in place.

Automatic downshifting when slowing down...I didn't notice anything different; there weren't much problems to begin with, aside from the 4th to 3rd downshifts; there was always a clunking when it downshifted as the car slowed down or when under braking. Again, I did not go quick enough to test this, so I shall update this space as soon as I do further testing.

Automatic downshifting from 3rd to 2nd while accelerating...as above, I didn't notice anything different. I couldn't go quick enough to test downshifting from 4th to 3rd when accelerating.

I only tested manual downshifting (with rev-matching) from 3rd to 2nd, and did it just once, so I can't really say for sure if there were any improvements. As above, I will update this space as soon as I do further testing.

***

And if you are going to test for leaks while the car is on jackstands (not that that is recommended), please put on your brakes before shifting between P, R & N. The grinding was horrendous. Lesson learned.

***

Though the vibrations/shuddering was greatly reduced, the vibrations/shuddering associated with the failing rear transmission mount, however, was not erradicated. That was to be expected.

Interestingly, the transmission slipping that was present before was now more pronounced; accelerating with some throttle and automatically/manually shifting at 2000 rpm...causes it to slip to 3000-3500 rpm. There was even one time during testing, where it slipped to 3000 rpm, held it for a second, then continued slipping to 3500 rpm, and then went into second gear. Throttle input did not change throughout this time. Very interesting behaviour indeed.

If I accelerated normally (conservatively), then it was fine.

In manual second gear; I used to be able to go wide open throttle most of the time when accelerating, but not this time now. It'll slip around 3000 rpm, which, from observation, is where the torque starts building up.

I suppose if I continued to drive conservatively then it'll be fine for the time being unti I get this fixed?

***

But why would this happen though, the more pronounced slipping? Perhaps it's because of the new filter, which now allows the fluid to flow more freely? Some insight into this would truly be appreciated.

***

Also, what would cause slipping? The two shift solenoids failing? Or could it be the torque converter? Or maybe something else?

For those wondering, I use the ATF Dex III Protector Series by Castrol. I read up that it is a good alternative, though it may cause harsh shifting.

Anyhow, thank you for your replies thus far, and good day.
Attached Thumbnails
Transmission Filter/Strainer/Screens-clogged-1.jpg   Transmission Filter/Strainer/Screens-clogged-2.2.jpg   Transmission Filter/Strainer/Screens-gasket-fitment.jpg   Transmission Filter/Strainer/Screens-oil-pan.jpg   Transmission Filter/Strainer/Screens-scratches.jpg  


Last edited by Underthebluesky; 08-02-20 at 10:24 PM.
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Old 07-30-20, 11:35 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Underthebluesky View Post

Automatic downshifting when slowing down...I didn't notice anything different; there weren't much problems to begin with, aside from the 4th to 3rd downshifts; there was always a clunking when it downshifted as the car slowed down or when under braking. Again, I did not go quick enough to test this, so I shall update this space as soon as I do further testing.

Automatic downshifting from 3rd to 2nd while accelerating...as above, I didn't notice anything different. I couldn't go quick enough to test downshifting from 4th to 3rd when accelerating.

I only tested manual downshifting (with rev-matching) from 3rd to 2nd, and did it just once, so I can't really say for sure if there were any improvements. As above, I will update this space as soon as I do further testing.

Hello again.

As promised, I have new information to share, having just come back from testing.


***


Shifting between P, R, N & D4/D3/1 is normal. Not much changes there. Rear transmission mount makes itself noticed, as usual.


***


Changing from manual 1st to manual 2nd causes slipping. Sometimes flaring, I feel like. Anywhere between 500-1000 rpms worth of slipping/flaring. The more throttle you put in the more it slips.

Putting in less throttle will make it not slip as much, but too little throttle will cause it to shudder a bit when changing gears. Not as much as before filter change, but it is still noticable. Though when changing gears manually at neighbourhood speeds, where throttle input is miniscule...it does so normally. Perhaps with a slight slip/flare. Mostly fine.

Coming out of a round-about, I tried almost wide open throttle when changing from manual 1st to manual 2nd, changing around 5000 rpm. It slipped to 550~, held it for a moment, then changed gear. Throttle input did not change during this time. The failing rear transmission mount makes itself noticed then. That's to be expected. However, there is no longer any shuddering or abnormal vibrations/sounds aside from the rear transmission mount.


***


Setting off with little throttle and automatically changing from 1st to 2nd causes the transmission to shudder while this action takes place. Put in a bit of throttle and it'll do fine. Too much, and it'll slip a bit, though without shuddering.

Setting off automatically at neighbourhood speeds, where throttle input is miniscule, it shifts from 1st to 2nd well.

The automatic downshift to 1st just before you stop is now more smoother; it used to shudder a bit when doing this action. Now, under light braking, it just changes to 1st. Nothing harsh.

There's just a slight clunk changing down to first automatically when undergoing hard/firm braking to a stop. I'm assuming this is the failing rear transmission mount.


***


Shifting from 2nd to 3rd manually with a somewhat heavy throttle does cause some slipping. The slipping is a tad violent. Needless to say, I've not tried wide open throttle.

It is otherwise silky smooth, be it with moderate throttle or little throttle. Sometimes manually shifting from 2nd to 3rd with little throttle is somewhat noticable due to the failing rear transmission mount. But otherwise manual changes from 2nd to 3rd are fine. Manually shifting from 2nd to 3rd with constant throttle input is also much smoother. It used to not be so.

Automatic upshifts from 2nd to 3rd are completely fine. No problems there.


***


I sometimes do find that I have to apply just a tad more throttle when manually downshifting from 3rd to 2nd (with rev-matching). I don't think this is something to worry about. I never was perfect with rev-matching.

Automatic downshifts from 3rd to 2nd when slowing down are completely fine. No problems there. I don't even notice it.

While accelerating, 3rd to 2nd automatic downshifts are ok only when you don't apply too much throttle. With a firm/somewhat heavy throttle, the transmission will start slipping once it gets to 2nd. And from there it's just a messy mixture of slipping and trying to get back into gear & changing to 3rd gear once the car gets up to speed. It's even messier when automatically changing to 2nd from 4th gear while accelerating.

3rd to 2nd automatic downshifts while accelerating are fine at neighbourhood speeds though.


***


Automatic upshift from 3rd to 4th is smooth. No problems there. Manual upshifting from 3rd to 4th causes a little bit of flaring sometimes. At times not even noticable. Mostly it is completely fine. Silky smooth. Manual upshifting fom 3rd to 4th with constant throttle input is also now much smoother. It used to be not so.

I feel like 4th gear pulls a lot better. I can accelerate a bit more than before. I used to find myself changing to 3rd when driving to/at an incline.

4th to 3rd automatic downshifts when slowing down are now much smoother. No shuddering detected. Although, the clunking associated with the rear transmission mount failing has not been eradicated. That's to be expected.

4th to 3rd automatic downshifts while accelerating are now better on the streets. No flaring/slipping detected. It is very smooth. I've not tested this on the highway, however. I will update this space when I do further testing.

Update: 2.08.2020, 5.31 pm: There is still flaring when automatically downshiftingudner accelerations at highway speeds and high load (up-hill climbs).

4th to 3rd manual downshifts (with rev-matching) are completely fine. No problems there.


***

I find that when the transmission slips/flares, maintaining a constant throttle input is best. To just let the slipping finish and to let the gear engage, before increasing throttle again.

Increase the throttle while slipping and it'll continue slipping. Decrease throttle input and the gear change will be a little rough. Decreasing throttle input does not end the slipping/flaring.


***


The Haynes manual has arrived today. I will have a look and see if I can find the reasons for the slipping/flaring/shuddering. I checked the fluids around 5-10 minutes after engine shut-off. The fluid is fine. Its level is right.


***


I hope this isn't too confusing to read...

...and that it helps anyone going through automatic transmission troubles.

Good day.

Last edited by Underthebluesky; 08-02-20 at 03:33 AM.
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Old 08-02-20, 12:43 AM   #15 (permalink)
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Update:

Hello again.

I checked the resistance in the transmission sub-harness connector, as well as the shift control solenoid valve connector.

Transmission sub-harness resistance for the A & B solenoid are both at 14~ ohms.

Transmission sub-harness resistance for the positive and negative terminals of the linear solenoid is at 5.6 ohms.

The resistance for the A solenoid terminal at the shift control solenoid valve connector is around 13-14 ohms.

The resistance for the B solenoid terminal at the shift control solenoid valve connector is also around 13-14 ohms.

There is a click when I connect each solenoid terminal to the positive terminal of a battery.

There is also a click when I connect the battery to the positive and negative terminals for the linear solenoid. The linear solenoid resistance at the shift control solenoid valve connector +/- terminals read 5.6 ohms.

So the transmission sub-harness and the solenoids are good.

What else could be a culprit for the transmission slipping/flaring/shuddering?

Good day.
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