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Second Generation Legend (1991-1995)

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Old 06-19-06, 10:35 AM   #1 (permalink)
 
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Red face AC cooling intermittently

On most occassions, AC does not work, just blowing hot air, once in a while, on a lucky day, AC will work...does this sound just like a recharge? I have a 91 Legend LS with 164K on it, mostly stock except for 17" Enkei rims...if I understand correctly, this model comes std. with R12 configuration, would I be able to safely convert (charge) to R134A?
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Old 06-19-06, 10:39 AM   #2 (permalink)
 
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Yes you can safely convert to r134 but the r12 blows alot colder but it's also harder to get then the 134.I seem like it's real low so i'd charge it.
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Old 06-19-06, 11:54 AM   #3 (permalink)
 
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Parts stores have R134A conversion kits available, pag? or ester oil , gaskets and o-rings...I also read that the filter/drier might need to be replaced because the R12 dessicant is not compatible with R134a which the pellets can turn mushy and thereby plug the filter. Seems like quite a bit of work... Or....can I just get away with just an R134A charging kit?
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Old 06-19-06, 12:00 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Sounds like it's the Radiator Fan Control Unit. It's a small black box located under passenger side dash panel (underneath the ECU). There is an Acura Issues Technical Service Bulletin posted on www.acuraworld.com under the TSB page.

Part should be less than 100 dollars from the stealership. Good luck.

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Old 06-19-06, 12:51 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frantinez63
Sounds like it's the Radiator Fan Control Unit. It's a small black box located under passenger side dash panel (underneath the ECU). There is an Acura Issues Technical Service Bulletin posted on www.acuraworld.com under the TSB page.

Part should be less than 100 dollars from the stealership. Good luck.

-Eric
If it were this he would be saying that it starts to blow AC when he drives but then while he's stopped it doesn't. He was saying he only gets AC every once in a while.
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Old 06-19-06, 01:15 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Here's the TSB frantinez63 mentioned.
Intermittent A/C
http://www.acuraworld.com/tsb/1995/B95-020.pdf

There's also a brief TSB that outlines the changes you would need to make to convert your car to R134a. It's fairly straight forward
http://www.acuraworld.com/tsb/1995/b95-008.pdf

It's a common enough problem to have been mentioned on this board a few times. I have this same issue so I purchased a used one on eBay for $25 shipped. We'll see how that goes.

Some people have been able to recondition the part by reflowing all of the solder joints. One guy went so far to as to replace a DIODE or an OPAMP IC that failed the "sniff test" (the chip smelled burnt) but I can't find his post right now.

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Old 06-19-06, 01:19 PM   #7 (permalink)
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mines did that and a long time ago they said my AC condeser line was clogged. didn't pay attenetion to it when I took it a long time ago to get checked. They actaully noted it on the paper like years before. but last year it started doing it kind of bad. It cost around $700 to get it replaced kind of a time consuming job.

I'll stiil get cold air sometimes but let me sit at a light and then it will start to go warm. I haven't fixed it yet. took like 6 years for it to get worse.
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Old 06-19-06, 01:55 PM   #8 (permalink)
 
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okay boys,.. orig. thread....

"On most occassions, AC does not work, just blowing hot air, once in a while, on a lucky day, AC will work...does this sound just like a recharge? I have a 91 Legend LS with 164K on it, mostly stock except for 17" Enkei rims...if I understand correctly, this model comes std. with R12 configuration, would I be able to safely convert (charge) to R134A?"....

The fan is working fine, just cold air is missing (most of the time)..I guess for now my question is "can I safely charge R134 (being that this is orig. R12) without changing seals, filter/dryer?" Has anybody done this with a 91 Legend LS?
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Old 06-19-06, 02:13 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Noikz29,
The other posters are merely checking to see if you are asking the right question to solve your intermittent A/C problem. Going back to your original question, it sounds more like the Fan Control Unit than the recharge to me.

More experienced peope:
Please correct me if I'm wrong but if the vehicle blows cold air at any point in time, that means there's enough coolant in the system to perform the heat exchange, right? If NoikZ29 still has enough R12 in his system to blow cold (when it actually engages), there is no added value in the conversion, right?

---
In my car, I have noticed that I get cold A/C when my A/C fan is running and the low side pipe (the one that runs near your tower brace) is cold but not cold A/C when my A/C fan is not running and the low side pipe remains warm. To the engineer in me, this sounds more like an electrical control system issue vs. a heat exhange issue.

Q: Please correct me if I'm wrong the A/C fan must always be ON when the A/C is set to max cool and the A/C compressor is engaged, right?

-g
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Old 06-19-06, 03:18 PM   #10 (permalink)
 
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S4gunn and everybody,

U see I just joined this forum, really appreciate all your input, looks like I might be in this club for a while...anyways, I might have jumped the gun prematurely.... I have not even opened the hood enough to really see and observe what is going on...does low side pipe even get cold? ? or maybe it could be electrical, maybe the ac clutch is not engaging? defective relay? I have had this car for 3 years now and the AC has always been this way... I rarely use the car being that it drinks more gas than the other the one, 91 special at that...u all know! so I never did put too much attention. I have couple issues with the car when I bought it and plan on driving it more this time...
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Old 06-19-06, 05:03 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Well. If you decide to go the 134a route you would have to completely empty out your original system. That has to be done by a professional with a vacuum gauge set.

Now some things I have noticed after my conversion. The AC is not always that cold in 90+ degree weather especially if you are just sitting at idle. I am sure I should replace my AC condensor or atleast clean the crud on the front of it though.

Try working with what you have first before you replace it. You could replace with something less reliable than what you already have.
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Old 06-19-06, 11:57 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pito11213
Well. If you decide to go the 134a route you would have to completely empty out your original system. That has to be done by a professional with a vacuum gauge set.

Now some things I have noticed after my conversion. The AC is not always that cold in 90+ degree weather especially if you are just sitting at idle. I am sure I should replace my AC condensor or atleast clean the crud on the front of it though.

Try working with what you have first before you replace it. You could replace with something less reliable than what you already have.
See this is what I was saying; and maybe it's just because I didn't understand the threadstarter's question: He said he only gets cold air every once in a while; that's why I was saying even if his fan control unit is bad he would still get cold air once he starts cruising down the highway.

If you're not getting cold air even while you're cruising down the highway then you have something wrong besides the fans. You could still have a problem with the fans, but you should at least get cold air when you get airflow from going 50mph plus.
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Old 06-20-06, 08:22 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Before I replaced my fan control unit, the ac will kick in for 10 seconds, and then turn off for 20 seconds, then kick in for 10 seconds..... and on... and on.
Because the ac is on for only 10 seconds, it blow a bit of cool air then warm again. After the FCU was replaced, this problem went away completely.

I can't believe Acura have these solder joint problem several places.... Fan control unit, Main relay.... I thought Japanese are better than European in these kind of quality control area. This is only the quality of solder they used!
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Old 06-20-06, 11:45 AM   #14 (permalink)
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You need to better diagnose the problem. Do you have a Helms service manual? There's a whole procedure in there which I followed before figuring out the problem. There are relays to check under the hood as well as the fan control unit under the passenger side floor. My particular problem was that it was low on refrigerant and the compressor would start for only 1/2 second before cycling off. I had to have the hood open and my head outside of the car and reach in to press the AC button in order to hear this happen (or you could have someone else push the button while you're listening to the compressor). It was leaking from the receiver/dryer which should be changed every time your cooling system is open to the outside elements. Replacing that and recharging the refrigerant I was good to go.
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Old 06-20-06, 12:23 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikey851
If you're not getting cold air even while you're cruising down the highway then you have something wrong besides the fans. You could still have a problem with the fans, but you should at least get cold air when you get airflow from going 50mph plus.
Your theory would be correct IF the Fan Control Unit (FCU) controlled ONLY the fans. Now, unless I'm reading this wrong, the electrical diagram on 22-13 and the control system explanation on 22-10 of the Helms manual clearly show the FCU has control of both the fans AND the compressor (via the compressor clutch relay).

If the jacked up FCU engaged the A/C but not the condensor fan, you would get somewhat cold air at speed and not cold air when stopped as you postulate. Note: I would assume though that the cold air at speed WOULDN'T be as cold as when the condensor fan is running AND the car is moving at speed (say when you have it on max Cool).

In reality (at least on my car), I've found that the FCU is engaging the A/C compressor only HALF of the time. When the car is blowing NOT blowing cold air but the A/C button is pushed in and the car is set to MAX COOL, I've opened the hood and looked underneath. The low-side coolant pipe is warm (hot even) and the condensor fan is OFF. No fan + no heat exchange => no cold air. On the highway, I don't get any cold air under these conditions as well.

While this probably isn't the best solution (I can't wait for my damn replacement part to come in the mail), I've set the knob to max cool and then, while idling, have pushed the A/C button and looked for a "blip" in the throttle - a clear indication that the compressor has engaged. If, after 10 seconds, I don't notice a blip or slightly cooler air, I push the disengage the A/C button and try again. This can't be good for the electrical system (nothing is ever happy with starting up and then shutting off in a short amount of time) but it is a decent stopgap technique I've found UNTIL the stupid part arrives.

-g
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