[kyoso23]

Hey y'all. I'm new to this forum, but am very interested in doing hybrid work to the legends. I had a '92 ls for a couple years and wanted to use an NSX motor and then I thouhgt maybe the heads would work, then I got rid of the car out of neccessity. I have recently purchased a mint '94 GS and now want to pick up where I left off. This talk about the RL block intrigues me, but I can say from experience, the longer stroke reving past it's intended design (even when built) causes oil problems because the piston will "rock" and start to oval the cylinder. I built several ls/VTEC combos for my integra and have not been able to solve this very problem without destroking some (decreasing the cc's). Who'd want to do that? I suppose the crank could be used from an RL and slap a rod/piston combo to it w/some sleeves in the 3.2 block. It seems for the money, the way to go would be to build the type II engine top to bottom and raise the compression and cam/fuel the hell out of it. If there is some good info on this typeII/RL hybrid out there, quit holding out and let's figure this out

 

[Dv8]

Hey y'all. I'm new to this forum, but am very interested in doing hybrid work to the legends. I had a '92 ls for a couple years and wanted to use an NSX motor and then I thouhgt maybe the heads would work, then I got rid of the car out of neccessity. I have recently purchased a mint '94 GS and now want to pick up where I left off. This talk about the RL block intrigues me, but I can say from experience, the longer stroke reving past it's intended design (even when built) causes oil problems because the piston will "rock" and start to oval the cylinder. I built several ls/VTEC combos for my integra and have not been able to solve this very problem without destroking some (decreasing the cc's). Who'd want to do that? I suppose the crank could be used from an RL and slap a rod/piston combo to it w/some sleeves in the 3.2 block. It seems for the money, the way to go would be to build the type II engine top to bottom and raise the compression and cam/fuel the hell out of it. If there is some good info on this typeII/RL hybrid out there, quit holding out and let's figure this out

ill find out for sure if this swap is a go tomorrow when the RL head gaskets come in.

~Hybrid

 

[Dv8]

CA32A1 Head Gaskets- CA35A1 perfect match

Well i think ive done enough homework to figure that on paper the 3.5 will work with the TYPE II or I topend. i will order my 3.5 RL Engine on monday and see were this whole new Hybrid projet takes me. The HGs match up, the legends are a bit thinner. the legends motor mounts fit the rl block since they have the same bolt pattern etc.

If anyone can come up with anything else please let me know.

~Hybrid

 

[Kasteman]

Good deal, nice to have these kinds of projects rolling. You think this hybrid will replicate the Legend's top end?
I'm in the process of obtaining the ECU hex files from the Legend. If you could come up with the RL's sometime, engine management issues would be within reason. Are you going to run a Type I or II ECU?

 

[Dv8]

Good deal, nice to have these kinds of projects rolling. You think this hybrid will replicate the Legend's top end?
I'm in the process of obtaining the ECU hex files from the Legend. If you could come up with the RL's sometime, engine management issues would be within reason. Are you going to run a Type I or II ECU?

everybody is crying fuel management and i could care less, i have a strong feeling there is not going to be any fuel problems as the injector flow rates the same, and even if its not, i have a APEXI SAFC to take care of the problem.

The only thing im using from the RL is the Engine block everything else is going to be TYPE II Legend, i dont see why the topend power witht he 3.5 block would be any different, however i do expect a bit less in exchange for some low end being its higher displacement.

The RL was built to be a low end luxury cruiser. they took the Legend and stroked it with detuned Legend heads(probably to offset what it cost to stroke the bottom end) So i have no problem reving the 3.5 to 6700RPM(stock TYPE II) were i rev my 3.2 to 7300, and the Chipped TYPE II ECU will allow me to do just that.

~Hybrid

 

[sandthepilot]

Can you swap a RL engine into the Legend?

Do you think people can swap RL engines into the Legend?

 

[SNEEK-E HONDA KA7]

yes

 

[SpeedDemon]

I'm glad to see that you are taking on this project. It should be a lot of fun watching you do it. I have complete faith in you if you decide to definitely tackle this project. Prove 'em wrong Christian

 

[B+O]

there's a discussion about this already. im moving ithis to the same area. mmkay

 

[B+O]

Youare the absolute sultan Christian :bowdown::bowdown: more power to you and i REALLY hope you get this to work because this will beable to smash just about everything on the road, i have no doubt mid 12s easy for some reason. ANywasy you are and will always be the King of Chances. im glad you are on my team (Legend team):bowdown:.

one question though, i noticed you call the C-series by CA. all literature i have found and the block its self (mine atleast) says C32A. i dont get why you call it the CA32A...please inform me

 

[Dv8]

Youare the absolute sultan Christian :bowdown::bowdown: more power to you and i REALLY hope you get this to work because this will beable to smash just about everything on the road, i have no doubt mid 12s easy for some reason. ANywasy you are and will always be the King of Chances. im glad you are on my team (Legend team):bowdown:.

one question though, i noticed you call the C-series by CA. all literature i have found and the block its self (mine atleast) says C32A. i dont get why you call it the CA32A...please inform me

Thanks, ill be looking forward to creating a real true Hybrid swap. The fun part about all this is i have to change out the block out of nessesity, so why not slap a 3.5 in there if i can.
All my friends are sayin mid 12's too but i cant see the engine handling that kind of power. we'll see what condition the block is in when i pull her out.

CA32A1...it's C32A1....i dont know what your talking about........

~Hybrid

 

[502 MotorSports]

excellent Christian!

I really look forward to seeing this finished product.
I do know that the 3.5RL (newer) has a lot of oooomph. In a lighter chassis with mods it should run even nicer.

 

[Cap]

Re: CA32A1 Head Gaskets- CA35A1 perfect match

If anyone can come up with anything else please let me know.

~Hybrid

Shouldn't the longer stroke on the 3.5 require different cam timing? I gather that you plan to use the stock 3.2 heads and cams? Are you concerned about the clearance between pistons and valves?

Cap

 

[SNEEK-E HONDA KA7]

Re: Re: CA32A1 Head Gaskets- CA35A1 perfect match

Shouldn't the longer stroke on the 3.5 require different cam timing? I gather that you plan to use the stock 3.2 heads and cams? Are you concerned about the clearance between pistons and valves?

Cap

I think it will be OK, it is not that close of a call between TDC and valve timing that the 3.5 bottom end topped with 3.2 heads will interfere. Your timing would still need to be way off. I think for the initial development of a hybrid 3.5/Type II combo he should be fine running stock valve train and stock injectors. If he is running lean, he can always get slightly larger injectors while leaving the stock ECU alone. I think DV8 already has a bored T/B and P/P heads, so feeding the bigger cylinders should be no prob for this setup.

way to go man, let's put more REAL projects into the Legend community. It makes me so happy to see the progress being made with hybrids and swaps, hopefully the rest of you guys stop whining about gutter guard and 20" wheels and start helping out on the real modification aspects of the Legend!!!

DV8, maybe I will buy a 3.5 motor also, would you be willing to share technical info? I think it would be better if more than one person was attempting this, and you know I ain't afraid of tearing into my car.

 

[theGodfather]

DV8... all the power to you man!

Are the exhaust ports the same on the RL block as they are on the Type II? I hope this won't change your "header" project efforts to be focused on developing them for the RL block instead of the Legend... but if they're the same.. then cool! :2cool:

G

 

[Cap]

Re: Re: Re: CA32A1 Head Gaskets- CA35A1 perfect match

I think it will be OK, it is not that close of a call between TDC and valve timing that the 3.5 bottom end topped with 3.2 heads will interfere....

Hey, don't get me wrong. I'm not trying to rain on DV8's parade. Rather, I think its a cool idea, and I'm tyring to help.

The Legend has a 84mm stroke. The RL has a 91mm stroke. So, if the two engines used the same pistons and con rods, then at TDC the RL pistons would be about 2.5mm higher than the Legend. That wouldn't work -- so Honda must have changed the piston and con rod geometry in the RL. And my point is this: if the pistons are different, then the shape of their dome might be enough different to interfere with the Legend heads. The fact that the head gaskets match is not sufficient evidence to deduce that the Legend heads will work without interference. Suggestion: put a wad of clay on a piston, bolt up the Legend heads, and then rotate the engine through 2 crank revolutions by hand. Unbolt the heads, and look for impressions in the clay. That will tell you about clearances. Try same trick on the 3.2 block and compare results.

OK, next point: cam timing. A longer stroke leads to higher piston velocity at given RPM. That higher velocity affects gas flow rates in and out of the combustion chamber. So, the timing of the exhaust and intake valves should be somewhat different to achieve the optimum result. Suggestion: perhaps one of those adjustable cam sprockets is available for the Legend, or maybe something for the NSX can be adapted. Assuming the hybrid engine runs, then some careful experimentation with cam timing my result in significant changes in performance. But, be careful about piston/valve clearances!

Good luck,

Cap

 

[SNEEK-E HONDA KA7]

DV8... all the power to you man!

Are the exhaust ports the same on the RL block as they are on the Type II? I hope this won't change your "header" project efforts to be focused on developing them for the RL block instead of the Legend... but if they're the same.. then cool! :2cool:

G

EXH ports are in the heads.

 

[CBRKid20]

to an amateur like myself, a lot of this is over my head. Nonetheless, this is a very exciting movement in the Legend community. I can't wait to see how everything works out. Good luck Dv8!!

 

[SNEEK-E HONDA KA7]

Re: Re: Re: Re: CA32A1 Head Gaskets- CA35A1 perfect match

Hey, don't get me wrong. I'm not trying to rain on DV8's parade. Rather, I think its a cool idea, and I'm tyring to help.

The Legend has a 84mm stroke. The RL has a 91mm stroke. So, if the two engines used the same pistons and con rods, then at TDC the RL pistons would be about 2.5mm higher than the Legend. That wouldn't work -- so Honda must have changed the piston and con rod geometry in the RL. And my point is this: if the pistons are different, then the shape of their dome might be enough different to interfere with the Legend heads. The fact that the head gaskets match is not sufficient evidence to deduce that the Legend heads will work without interference. Suggestion: put a wad of clay on a piston, bolt up the Legend heads, and then rotate the engine through 2 crank revolutions by hand. Unbolt the heads, and look for impressions in the clay. That will tell you about clearances. Try same trick on the 3.2 block and compare results.

OK, next point: cam timing. A longer stroke leads to higher piston velocity at given RPM. That higher velocity affects gas flow rates in and out of the combustion chamber. So, the timing of the exhaust and intake valves should be somewhat different to achieve the optimum result. Suggestion: perhaps one of those adjustable cam sprockets is available for the Legend, or maybe something for the NSX can be adapted. Assuming the hybrid engine runs, then some careful experimentation with cam timing my result in significant changes in performance. But, be careful about piston/valve clearances!

Good luck,

Cap

Now that is using your head! Prob with adj cam sprockets is that we are SOHC, cam sprockets are basically "bling" on a SOHC. Well, this project needs to be jumped into by somebody. You are bringing up very educated points, but I think it is best we just wait and see what happens. I had to ignore alot of educated "your gonna have problems" or "it is not gonna work because....." when I did my trans swap. You just need to get in there and do it! If there is problems, then ya make it work. If he has problem with cam timing (which is a valid point) he could always research the Honda swapping communities and find excellent info on basically the same issues from the 4 banger guys. No worries........

 

[theGodfather]

EXH ports are in the heads.

Where was my mind!?! LOL. That's right! My careless mistake! DUH! <smackin myself over my head on this one>

Thanks SNEEK-E

G