[Telion]

You better agree with it, or I'll beat you about the head with even more logic and facts.

lol give me a sec

 

[Telion]

Ok for the time being I will retract mey statement but I know that it has to do with back pressure (more accurately defined as correct air velocity), heat, and lag. But I cannot find the information that led me to not completely agreeing with the last statement. so for now I will let it go. Mainly because I think our cars (being FWD) can benefit from a little lag, and I can't find the detailed information that explained the why in teh comparison of how spent exhaust is also energy that really is not wasted energy unless under perfect conditions. Hell even that didn't make sense but we will get back to that. I think the Legend forum is on the dawn of boost so it could stand a little SC vs Turbo debate like that within every other forum but it would need its own thread Superchargers vs Turbos

 

[GrumpySteelMan]

No matter how you slice it my friend, the parasitic drag on the crankshaft is always there, boost or not. This means that for each unit of fuel making crankshaft horsepower the brake horsepower (bhp) will always be higher on the turbocharged car.

 

[Telion]

alright I will agree, lol that didn't take much. lol I am going to get some sleep now and if you could run through my previous posts to ensure that I am not off base in regard to the current build, or if there is anything I have overlooked lol.

I will say this though for our cars an SC setup would be easier to kit.

 

[Dv8]

Can anyone in here tell me what a turbo is...?

~Dv8

Who's buried in Grant's Tomb..?

~Dv8

 

[GrumpySteelMan]

Being that the current turbos have a preset wastegate I will say 7psi. Later (hopefulley not sooner than later) I may either weld the wastegates and try to get another lb. or 2 but they would not be good for much more than that so the goal at that time would be to bu one more that is the same size as the larger turbo that I have and run a pair of those, but that would be very far into the future. For now I just wanna get it done and see what she throws down.

You won't need to weld the wastegates, if you did that they'd make tons and tons of unmanageable amounts of boost and come apart or blow something up. You'll be able to use a boost controller to increase the boost, or even a cheap ball valve...if anything you'll need to port the turbine housings and wastegate outlets because they might be rather restrictive on the top end...but will probably be ok. If you pay two-way shipping, I'll gladly port those housings for you.

Other than that, you're looking pretty solid.

I am also going to read up on 3 bar map sensors and some new thing that is said to be able to replace and be better than "The Missing Link map re-sender unit." <don't know much about this yet. And if all else fails I guess I too will drop a G (but I don't think I will need to at 7psi)

Do you have some links for me? I've had some old school experience with turbo hondas, but that was when we were using check valves, etc. to fool the ECU and keep from blowing the sensors up.

Who's buried in Grant's Tomb..?

~Dv8

Ted.

 

[GrumpySteelMan]

Any thoughts about a cam for your turbo car?

A good turbo cam usually has 4-6 degrees less intake duration than exhaust, dual pattern, with a lobe separation of 112-114.

You should be wary that the pressure in the exhaust is not higher than the intake with any significant overlap, or you'll run very inefficiently.

At any rate, a 'performance' NA cam will usually make less power than a 'factory' cam with a turbo. Let me tell you why.

Performance cams run more overlap and duration, so they make less low end power, and more top end, as you know. The overlap is used to help motivate the spent gases with the incoming intake charge...the overlap is also responsible for a 'lumpy' idle, since there isn't adequate airflow through the engine to clear the cylinders completely.

If your engine is otherwise optimal, the boosted air can literally blow the fresh charge straight out of the cylinder into the exhaust. If not, the exhaust backpressure will be higher than the intake pressure and you'll get reversion.

So I would suggest either staying with the factory cams or going with something better for turbo.

 

[reboticon]

:lol: you should let him get what he has working before you start telling him to swap cams. Those dollars gotta be adding up at this point.

Question- what does it take to make the legend run properly with a lopey cam and map sensor? Is it a matter of chipping it or require stand alone?

 

[GrumpySteelMan]

There's no reason for a big cam, really. I'd probably want to be at the point where I needed an EMS before I'd think about putting that nasty of a cam in.

 

[Telion]

Any thoughts about a cam for your turbo car?

I will probably be going with a set of TI cams since they are less agressive than the
TII's and I sold my RL (and my TII cams) So the webcams will probably go on teh shelf after all is said and done.

:lol: you should let him get what he has working before you start telling him to swap cams. Those dollars gotta be adding up at this point.

Question- what does it take to make the legend run properly with a lopey cam and map sensor? Is it a matter of chipping it or require stand alone?

I will answer this by simply saying whatever it takes for a proper tuning. And it is actually good that he brings this up it is something that I was aware of but many people may not be, but I won't be going as far as having a set of cams made specific to this budget project I will just go with a set of TI cams. Plus they are readily available.

You won't need to weld the wastegates, if you did that they'd make tons and tons of unmanageable amounts of boost and come apart or blow something up. You'll be able to use a boost controller to increase the boost, or even a cheap ball valve...

Do you have some links for me? I've had some old school experience with turbo hondas, but that was when we were using check valves, etc. to fool the ECU and keep from blowing the sensors up.

Other than that, you're looking pretty solid.
Ted.

if anything you'll need to port the turbine housings and wastegate outlets because they might be rather restrictive on the top end...but will probably be ok. If you pay two-way shipping, I'll gladly port those housings for you.

Thank you for the kind offer and I will ship them as soon as I no longer need them in the design phase. To that note though, I thought about this and also wondered if they would become less efficient by doing this I am sure that you aren't going to bore near the turbines nearest point to the blades but is there a true benefit to porting out all the other areas? It makes sense to but I never hear or read about people doing it and wonder why? I wonder because I know you can port an M90 (or any supercharger) incorrectly to a point of inefficiency and produce a effect hmmm.

Oh with the waste-gate welding if I did I was thinking of going with an adjustable external waste gate I may not have been clear in that post and apologize to those who thought the same as grumps. Ad as I read up about the gm 3 bar sensor I will save the sites and weed through the garbage then send you the useful ones as I go.

 

[Telion]

I noticed that no one said anything about the size differences in the headers, so I figured I better ask if the pics made sense?

 

[Telion]

Who's buried in Grant's Tomb..?

~Dv8

Hiram was, but I am curious do you ask because you think the thread veered off course? or is there an analogy to turbos, and/or this thread and Grant's life? or is it that things are not always as they seem?

 

[reboticon]

^ I got the impression he was just making his presence in this thread known by asking rhetorical questions?

You can probably find a set of type 1 cams locally for next to nothing but if you need them i have a pair of type 1s for $50 shipped.

 

[Telion]

Very deep Reboticon I get it now. His presence is welcomed and honored, I know he is there behind the scenes, but I enjoy seeing his presence, even as you stated ^

 

[GrumpySteelMan]

I'll port the wastegate outlets 1-2mm depending on available material, smooth the outet, and shape/smooth the neckdown on the inlet, and gasket match it.

(turbine housings are sand cast, so the internal surfaces are extremely rough)

What looks better to you?

 

[Telion]

not bad, I might give it a shot then when I become tired of it I can send them off for round two.

 

[Telion]

Wow, as I look back what began as a turbo build on a budget has become a full blown project (beyond the budget). Now that I have come this far I am going to press forward as though this is the the final stage of the performance part of Killana's build. Then at a later time I will swap out the turbos for some that are a little more serious.

-Legend specific mild steel flanges

-2.5" Turbo Intercooler piping

-02-06 Nissan 350Z VQ35DE V6 Ceramic Racing Headers

-Aluminum Intercooler Piping

-Exhaust Intake piping kit tubing mandrel bend 2 1/2"

-T304 STAINLESS STEEL UNIVERSAL X PIPE 2.5"

-VISTEON / C&R RACING RADIATOR W/ FAN 02-05 CIVIC Si EP3

-Twin Turbo FMIC Intercooler 2-in-1-out

-Top fuel Zero1000 Blowoff valve

-Top fuel Zero1000 Catch can

-Type RS / S BOV Blow Off Turbo Intercooler pipe 3"

-(2)T3 T3/T4 Turbo Inlet FLANGE Mild Steel + Gasket

-(2) 2.5" Exhaust Collector MILD Steel Flange

-(2) 3" Exhaust Collector MILD Steel Flange

-3" Catalytic Converter High Flow Stainless Steel

-3" x 6" Exhaust Flex Pipe Tube 100% Stainless Steel

-TOP SPEED PRO-1 GT-Spec 3" Exhaust Muffler

-Magnaflow two 2.5" in 1 3" out Y-Pipe

*not really build specific but I am also replacing the Clutch reservoir and the
Power steering reservoir with aluminum ones.
(and that is just the items I didn't already have)

 

[91TYPII]

Holy turbo thread T! Everything seems like its coming along nicely. Nice work man i'm jealous i really want to turbo my car but my funds are short. I need to get another car so i can just park my legend and work on it. We should get together sometime man i need to pick at your brain about this project oke:

 

[Telion]

Ok I got a little bit more work done on teh plumbing of the turbos and now have them clocked.

Here is a pic of the passenger side turbo

Here is a pic of the space that has been cleared back out with the droverside turbo in the background

This is a closeup of the driver side plumbing

This is a shot of the pipe that will cross from the driverside exhaust to the turbo on the passenger side

Another shot of the passenger side turbo

This is an engine bay shot with both turbos plumbed

 

[reboticon]

Its looking really clean. Very impressive. Where are you gonna put the p/s res?

Is the hood going to rub the blue coupler at the back or is there just barely enough room?