[Vic Cardenas]

:grumble: Uh-oh.

 

[BLKnBLU]

Well about an hour ago while making the final preparations to fire it for the first time I encountered a defining moment one that will certainly prolong the time before my car will be done for who knows how long now.

I always hand turn the crank before firing it up after a in depth build in case there is or was something I had missed and while doing so it locked. I never pulled the timing belt off this time so it is very possible that whatever happened to the tranny was a result of something that happened first to the engine. I am not sure if I am going to tear it down and rebuild as is or go ahead and hold out till I can get the heads and TII manifold redone. I do know though that she will be down for quite some time. I will finish the build though so there is less work to do once I put it back together and here I thought tonight was going to be the night that I would get to fire it up for the first time in 6 months. Well I am going to bed.

Did you make sure the trannys output shaft is connected to the diff carrier all the way?

 

[Telion]

I had thought that I had but you did give me an idea I am going to disengage it and see if I can free turn the crank as part of the trouble shooting before tearing it down. Keep the ideas coming so far I am going to

remove the intake manifold and plugs to see if there is anything dropped into one of the piston chambers,

check to see if something is locking up my alternator

disengage the tranny from the diff

then attempt to verify timing is still on (doing that last because there is no reason for it not to be.

Anything else reasonable that people come up with I am going to take a couple days off this weekend incase a teardown and rebuild is in order.

 

[Guest]

I must have missed it?whats wrong/not doing? Just not firing?

 

[Telion]

Crank locks as if timing is off and a piston is hitting a valve.

Ok I pulled everything off the face side of the engine and I can only get 2/3's rotation so I can't get enough of a turn to line up the timing marks but they were on before and I was so pleased with it so I don't want to remove the belt and before I remember something similar happening and it was not timing does anyone remember?

I did take the valve covers off to switch and paint them so though the likelihood is rare it is possible that something is preventing the cam from rotating I will check that before timing.

 

[Telion]

Ok I verified the timing by marking it off removing it lining it back up and putting the belt back on and it was spot on. In this process I also hand turned the passenger side cam gear and it is locking up at a certain point so the problem is definitely on the passenger side head. But just in case I also disengaged the drive shaft on the tranny to be sure and all yielded the same result, which is everything locking at exactly a half rotation of the cam gear (noticed this off my taped on markings going from TDC to locking at BDC)

Looks like the heads will be coming off sooner than I thought.

Anybody know a good Cosmetic head gasket thickness to decrease compression while I am at it?

I removed the the valve cover

 

[l4zy415]

Gawd damn monkey nuts!!! Can't believe it locked up!!! I hope nothing broke when trying to start it (knock on wood).

 

[Vic Cardenas]

^He didn't try and start it. He was just hand turning the crank to make sure the timing was good.

Do you think that maybe when your tranny locked up that the cam sprocket jumped some teeth and you bent valves?

 

[sr5guy]

If you're turning the cam and its locking up its because one of the pistons is at tdc and the valve is hitting it - you have to turn the crank to about a 1/4 way counterclockwise from the TDC mark on the crankcase then you can move the cams. With the timing belt disconnected and both cams in their "nuetral" position (all valves closed) does the crank spin alright?

-Matt

 

[reboticon]

two things:

1. had similar experience (non legend) turned out to be bad tranny. Not sure by posts if you've tried with tranny disconnected yet?

2, Go get some Marvel Mystery Oil and pour an ounce or two in each cylinder through the sparkplug holes. If its a stuck ring it will loosen up. Ive personally seen it desieze a motor that had been locked 10 years. Of course it ran like crap but it did unlock it.

 

[Dethred]

Are your spark plugs out? I remember I had a bitch of a time lining up the timing marks on my motor when the plugs were still in. I actually had to use a breaker bar just to get past the TDC part of the compression stroke. I finally wised up and removed the plugs and it was much easier. Probably not the issue, but I thought I'd throw it out there.

BTW its "Cometic" gaskets.

 

[Telion]

If you're turning the cam and its locking up its because one of the pistons is at tdc and the valve is hitting it - you have to turn the crank to about a 1/4 way counterclockwise from the TDC mark on the crankcase then you can move the cams. With the timing belt disconnected and both cams in their "nuetral" position (all valves closed) does the crank spin alright?

-Matt

With the timing belt disconnected and both cams in their "nuetral" position (all valves closed) does the crank spin alright?

Tried that and the crank still does not spin leading me to believe there could be a nut sitting on one of the pistons and locking as it trys to reach its highest point before going back down.

two things:

1. had similar experience (non legend) turned out to be bad tranny. Not sure by posts if you've tried with tranny disconnected yet?

2, Go get some Marvel Mystery Oil and pour an ounce or two in each cylinder through the sparkplug holes. If its a stuck ring it will loosen up. Ive personally seen it desieze a motor that had been locked 10 years. Of course it ran like crap but it did unlock it.

1. Disengaging drive shaft from the tranny was one of the earlier tests since it was an easier one.

2. Good thought but the pistons aren't siezed because they do move they just cannot complete a full rotation.

Are your spark plugs out? I remember I had a bitch of a time lining up the timing marks on my motor when the plugs were still in. I actually had to use a breaker bar just to get past the TDC part of the compression stroke. I finally wised up and removed the plugs and it was much easier. Probably not the issue, but I thought I'd throw it out there.

BTW its "Cometic" gaskets.

I was still able to crank it (to the trouble point with the plugs in. I did however pull the plugs to check for damage to see if something hit them in the rotation, plugs are fine. Thanks for throwing out there sometimes it is the small things that get you. In this case I am just not sure which one it is yet.

I really think something fell in one of the holes because there was a long period of time where the plugs and the intake manifold was off. I will pull the heads this weekend and see if that is the case. Keep the ideas coming, were just running out of parts to remove lol. I pulled the intake manifold today and didn't see anything blocking the intake valves (from the topside anyway).

 

[dblanehopr]

With the timing belt disconnected and both cams in their "nuetral" position (all valves closed) does the crank spin alright?

Tried that and the crank still does not spin leading me to believe there could be a nut sitting on one of the pistons and locking as it trys to reach its highest point before going back down.

ooh, that sucks; i almost dropped a bolt into one of the sparkplug ports right after i'd set a HG.. would had to cuss tha hell outta the car if i had. have you tried usin that thin telescoping magnet?

 

[hybirdgsrlegend]

I would deffinetly try to put a magnet In the spark plug hole see if you pick any thing up?it's cheaper and takes less time then pulling the heads off?

 

[DANK$OLDIER]

If you cant reach it with a magnet run a piece of vacuum line off a blow gun down into the cylinder followed by a magnet and see if you can blow it around to get it. Good luck man, that sucks!

 

[reboticon]

If you cant reach it with a magnet run a piece of vacuum line off a blow gun down into the cylinder followed by a magnet and see if you can blow it around to get it. Good luck man, that sucks!

Id try this. Reason being you should be able to hear a nut or a bolt rattling around in the chamber if there is something in there.

 

[Telion]

Ok I could not find my telescopic magnet didn't really fit in the hole anyway so I broke out the Kirby to no avail so I said F it I gotta replace the gaskets with MLS gaskets anyway and so I popped the head off and I am not sure what was in there but she spins free now Woopeee . so I will order some gaskets and through them on O-ringing the heads may have to wait I gotta get this thing out of my garage. and I can do that when I am ready to swap in the TII heads because I wanna get or do a decent P&P on them.

 

[dblanehopr]

that's strange.. a valve wouldn't really get in the way if they're in neutral position.. you sure the cam didn't pop over like they like to? *shrugs* dunno.. just suggestin ideas

 

[dasficktauf]

the gremlin must have jumped out when you weren't lookin telion

 

[Telion]

It's simple if a screw drops in to the piston, the piston can't reach it's maximum height before transitioning back down the chamber preventing it from full rotation.