That's what I'm talking about!!!:thumbsup: I had to force myself to not hit the caps lock!

PS: you just have to worry about melting the belts and lower radiator hose.

 

Lol thank you I will try to put a setup illustration together tomorrow unless someone accurately beats me to it

 

I may have missed somthing here, but wouldn't combining the turbos into a Y instad of an x have been more efficent? on inlet into the intercooler and then straight into the intake? and less pipe.

 

Well I suppose it could be easier but then each turbo would be joined and in this styple of setup would really defeat the purpose of running twins because they would be no different than one large single turbo. So my intent was to keep them seperated till they exited the intercooler. But I don't think it would be more efficient unless I used a larger size pipe at the y-point that would compensate. Actually without doing so and with the same size piping it would be more restrictive. Especially if I decide to increase the size of the turbos. Grumps had explained the importance of the x-pipe just a couple posts back and Hotlava had experienced it's importance first hand. so I will buy that. The least piping (so far) would be one happy medium sized turbo; but that's not the goal here :2cool:.

 

Does anyone have a set of OBX headers that are not yet installed

 

yes, what do you need. you've got pm.

 

now I have got more than that, good timing

 

Considering the amount of (or lack of) space in the engine bay, putting in an X-pipe won't be making things better on that front. With the way he was mounting the turbos in his latest update, the manifold piping length can't be much different than a few inches between the two. As far as 3 cylinders powering one turbo, how do Porsche's, Supras, etc work? Granted they're higher end motors designed for charged air, but I am pretty sure those tiny turbos won't lag a whole lot more than a giant single turbo.

 

At what point will the theoretical benefit of the X-pipe be out-weighed by the used space, extra piping length between combustion and turbo, and price of the piping (etc).


The idea of twins where they are currently mounted is ergonomics, closer-to-equal manifold length. The whole benefit of having twins in such a location is similar exhaust dynamics on each cylinder bank. Having two turbos on one side of the engine bay, or a single turbo on one side was presenting up to and over a foot of difference between the exhaust manifolds. If the exhaust manfolds can be routed between the valve covers and wheel well, then you can probably get the exhaust length to within few centimeters of each other. I would think that space would be better suited for a Y-junction from the turbos' exhaust to be sent out one 3" pipe over the driver's side axle as previously discussed.

 

At what point will the theoretical benefit of the X-pipe be out-weighed by the used space, extra piping length between combustion and turbo, and price of the piping (etc).

The idea of twins where they are currently mounted is ergonomics, closer-to-equal manifold length Agreed. The whole benefit of having twins in such a location is similar exhaust dynamics on each cylinder bank also agreed with the X-pipe to aid in this. Having two turbos on one side of the engine bay, or a single turbo on one side was presenting up to and over a foot of difference between the exhaust manifolds. precisely>If the exhaust manifolds can be routed between the valve covers and wheel well, then you can probably get the exhaust length to within few centimeters of each other. ( I would think that space would be better suited for a Y-junction from the turbos' exhaust to be sent out one 3" pipe over the driver's side axle as previously discussed)agreed this part of my idea has not changed.

the benefit would be less bends and balance pressure as the exhaust enters the turbos. I didn't dicuss heat or scavenging because this is where I find the benefit of the X-pipe as minimal where as part of the exhaust side on an NA setup it would have a greater purpose.
what has a greater affect a 6" pipe with a 180 degree bend or a 12" pipe with a couple of 45 degree bends?

All in all in order to maximize the build with all of ^ in mind I think I need to pull the engine and see if I can tuck everything to fit it so that I do decrease the amount of piping and bends for maximum gain and decreased lag. but dont forget that I will still try to pull off the forward mount setup prior to going with what I am going to call the standard crossover setup.

 

Tel. i really hope you didnt buy 350z headers. when i suggested it i was talking about aftermarket turbo manifolds for the 350z, not actual 350z headers. cuz the last pictures you put up were of headers....

 

In fact I did but not because of your comment there were many other reasons that have led me to pursue buying these as I have thought through this build the two greatest being that I

A. am not cutting up my OBX's and
B. had to satisfy my curiosity as to teh fit.
C. Is somewhat latent but equal length headers can't be all that bad right?

The goal is to create a whole new exhaust system specific for this build. I knew what you were referring to and that it would not work do to space limitations where the tranny is, they would sit too low. Thank you for the concern though. I had actually been doing a little looking into these headers since I first got teh tt bug which was well before my first post about it

 

Just a few more pics to help viualize. Dethred I apologixe I typed up a couple more paragraphd and my laptop got hot and shut down so I will re-type it tomorrow

Oviously the mounting location is a little off but you get the idea

^ why I am thinking of a standard mount and wraping back around to the X-pipe

More of the plumbing also came in today

 

^ why I am thinking of a standard mount and wraping back around to the X-pipe

More of the plumbing also came in today

Labrat has a semi-functioning single turbo design with huge length discrepancies between the manifolds and the turbo. From what I've read, his lag isn't terrible, so I think you'd have barely any with two small twins, even less piping, and the increased exhaust velocity from having each turbo so close to the corresponding cylinder head. Look at some other twin turbo setups and find one that needs an X-pipe.

PS: Visualize the 350Z header in that picture rotated 90* clockwise, with the pipes extended to meet the cylinder head; it would probably just fit in there. Check these out too: 90-96 300ZX Headers - The Z Store, your Datsun & Nissan Z & ZX source!

 

When it comes to just moving air, a 12" pipe with 2 45 degree bends will flow more than a 6" with a 180. As to whether or not the heat loss from the extra 6" of pipe negates the extra volume of air...

If you can't make it all fit, Im more than happy to lend you my Sawzall + Sledge "installation kit"

 

If you can't make it all fit, Im more than happy to lend you my Sawzall + Sledge "installation kit"

lol

 

ok crazy question but I have spent a few hours in indecision, blue couplers or black? they run 10.00 to 15 ea so though it seems like a small decision it is a costly one. keep in mind the yellow is staying gone the purlpe is coming back and tehre will be some charcoal grey. And how come know one uses crinkle paint?

 

Personally I'm a fan of black, since I like a factory look.

 

Blue if they have a shiny finish and the yellow is gone, black if its a dull finish. Whats crinkle paint?

 

Thats the ticket!!

 

telion,
your knuckles have to be bloody all the time!!
I know when i do anything to my legend my hands are cut up, and you are trying to fit more stuff under the hood...wow...great work....

Quick question about the exhasut being routed towards the radiator...have you considered the amount of heat your radiator will absorb from the exhasut...I dont want you to end up with a turbo legend that you can only run 15 minutes at a time...lol...
I know you can put shields in there but then shields limit the airflow...
just something to keep in mind...

 

My knuckles don't get bloody but I do manage to get a small cut about every other time I work on it for some reason (seems that way anyway). yeah I had been thinking about the heat factor alot lately especially where all the piping is in the spot behind the readiator. Actually last night I started playing around with rotating the x-pipe 90 degrees and sliding it between the front suspension frame support and the radiator. or directly under the crank pulle in the same fashion. Both seem to be good options and possible and it removes a lot of the engine bay piping clutter.

PS 2nd pic is prety cool too, and pretty close to accurate, nice.

 

Since I am back in a waiting stage for header flanges and a little more intercooler piping (why the hell are they priced so you have to buy a kit or blow the same price on 6 pieces). But anyway I had a moment (few hours) of free time so I was playing around again with the whole idea of eliminating some of the cutter between the engine and the radiator and re-ran the piping yet again still teh same concept but the X-pipe is getting relocated under the tranny (hopefully this will be sixes) I did free up some room and possibly made things a little easier on myself. I also finished up the intercooler piping going into the engine bay. Here's a few pics. Yep pretty much the same, the planning, purchase, and preperation stages take time.

Here is a shot of the passenger side, and as you can see the turbos will need to be clocked and the pipe near the passenger cam cover will need to come foward about a couple inches.

Hear is an updated shot of the drivers side, there's still some re-wiring work to be done over there but the intake pipe is in and I will put the washer fluid close to where it was bot with some subtle changes and possibly a smaller or different shaped container so the overflow will also fit.

Here you can get an excellent shot of how much room has been free'd up
both from stock and from the previous setup

here is a closer shot you can't really tell but the exhaust still comes into a Y (not putchased yet) that will join the two 2.5" pipes to a 3" outlet

Acloser shot of the driverside

Another shot of the bay from the drivers side. (getting redundant yet)
A side note I have been thinkink about piecing together a silicone and 38mm aluminum piping replacement for the radiator hoses.

Here is a shot of the re-worked drivers side intercooler piping figured going with an aluminum 45 degree elbow vs silicone.

And here is the passenger side on the passenger side for the same reason it just seems right lol

Another thing which I will duplicate in another thread for better exposure but does anyone know the I.D. and length of the hose between the power steering rack? and which vehicles come stock with an aluminum power steering reservoir? (Supra?)

 

Make sure you clock those turbos so that the oil drain is as close to vertical as possible.

 

Indeed while I have you where should I put the gravity feed catch can?

 

I'd go where ever you have enough space to accomodate the can without cluttering up your open space with the feed line to the can. Mount it slightly lower than the outlet since it's gravity fed, no brainer.

 

+1 he got it right.

 

Scored the Y-pipe Magnaflow 2.5 dual inlet and 3" outlet

 

So how much power was that car making before all of this? What is your estimate on total output once you get it all tuned properly?

 

what psi are you tuning for? and what fuel system? im intrigued lol

 

you know I wish I knew what it was before hand and I still may get the chance to do a dyno of it in int's current pre-turbo state, but I never really got a chance to this year because every dyno shop out her had been booked for the last 6 months because of the GT Live event, which was AWESOME! but now that that is over hopefully I can find a shop that can do a little dyno tuning with it as it is so I have a good before and after comparison. As for any speculation about what I think it will do when it is done, I have no idea and can't speculate due to my lack of knowlege of turbos and the effect they have on our engines. Being that the current turbos have a preset wastegate I will say 7psi. Later (hopefulley not sooner than later) I may either weld the wastegates and try to get another lb. or 2 but they would not be good for much more than that so the goal at that time would be to bu one more that is the same size as the larger turbo that I have and run a pair of those, but that would be very far into the future. For now I just wanna get it done and see what she throws down.

As far as fuel system I am not sure what you are referring to but I will guess
ready to go in place are

an adjustable fuel pressure regulator
450cc DSM injectors
255lph Walbro fuel pump
RL fuel rails
AFC Neo
and a goal to be able to create a dyno based chip that will do most of the work for the NEO
(trying not to need an FMU)
I am also going to read up on 3 bar map sensors and some new thing that is said to be able to replace and be better than "The Missing Link map re-sender unit." <don't know much about this yet. And if all else fails I guess I too will drop a G (but I don't think I will need to at 7psi)

 

Being that the current turbos have a preset wastegate I will say 7psi. Later (hopefulley not sooner than later) I may either weld the wastegates and try to get another lb. or 2 but they would not be good for much more than that so the goal at that time would be to bu one more that is the same size as the larger turbo that I have and run a pair of those, but that would be very far into the future. For now I just wanna get it done and see what she throws down.

You won't need to weld the wastegates, if you did that they'd make tons and tons of unmanageable amounts of boost and come apart or blow something up. You'll be able to use a boost controller to increase the boost, or even a cheap ball valve...if anything you'll need to port the turbine housings and wastegate outlets because they might be rather restrictive on the top end...but will probably be ok. If you pay two-way shipping, I'll gladly port those housings for you.

Other than that, you're looking pretty solid.

I am also going to read up on 3 bar map sensors and some new thing that is said to be able to replace and be better than "The Missing Link map re-sender unit." <don't know much about this yet. And if all else fails I guess I too will drop a G (but I don't think I will need to at 7psi)

Do you have some links for me? I've had some old school experience with turbo hondas, but that was when we were using check valves, etc. to fool the ECU and keep from blowing the sensors up.

Who's buried in Grant's Tomb..?

~Dv8

Ted.

 

Ok here are pics of the exhaust header flanges that will be mated to the 350z headers

 

Ok when I said that I had just about everything that I would need because of the current SC project, boy was I wrong! Just throwing the exhaust system into the mix threw me off cost wise, wow! and that is with the good deals and combined shipping. so what did I forget.

The flanges from the Y to the exhaust (I hate that my current exhaust is one piece).

The flanges that mount the turbos to the piping
The flexpipe for the exhaust system
The highflow cat

And things I didn't forget about but spent more than I anticipated on were.

The 350Z headers
The flanges for it

so long story short, this whole doing it on a budget has shot the budget. and there will be no body work done this year from the looks of it I guess there is a cost with doing it right, and I don't even have the thermotec wrap or ss lines for the power steering yet oh shizz. Not to mention the radiator hoses.

And now it is time for the flaming, but in my opinion for this type of build I could not commit to going with a dual tip exhaust or splitting it for the purpose of looks vs. functionality

TOP SPEED AUTO ACCESSORIES, INC. < as always, in no way am I affiliated with this seller.

 

And now it is time for the flaming, but in my opinion for this type of build I could not commit to going with a dual tip exhaust or splitting it for the purpose of looks vs. functionality

Two Words for ya. Side Pipes. (yes i am a *******)

 

Is it possible to get the spark/fuel values from a tune using the AEM EMS and make a chip for it, and then sell the EMS? If so, that might save money. Heck, if you can make a chip based on a proper tune for those that might, in the future, go F.I., it could save people lots of money and make some for you.:dunno:

 

I have a similar idea not using the EMS, but each setup (unless and really if it) was a kit deal would require an individualized tune, but I could possibly get close enough where an AFC could dial it in. but in this arena I still think an individual tune would be best.