[Telion]

Ok Vic came over for a bit and we went through various setups with the 450 injectors with the stock injectors, even verified the functionality of the main relay on my wife's car and it still will not start it did give one put of a putter but that was it. Is it possible for it to start with the timing off and then not start anymore? I am pretty sure it is on but I am running out of potential issues.

 

[Telion]

hmm that would explain your problems, though I have not ever heard of it before. Thats where it would be on a 4cylinder, connected to the return line at the end of the rail. I would throw on the stock regulator since that should be pretty easy (but a little messy) and try to rule it out that way.

After looking at the stock (Type I and Type II) setup it is the same fuel in> fuel filter> into the rail on the passenger side> exits on the drivers side> to the regulator> into the return line.

 

[Telion]

Ok I can get it to fire up for a few seconds if use starter fluid so it could also be contaminated fuel. But it still baffles me that it would start fine before any ideas on this. Also I am suspect that there is a need to hold the key in the start position for it to stay on, could that be the ignition switch or an ignition relay? I am looking for answers so please chime in.

 

[sap]

Ok I can get it to fire up for a few seconds if use starter fluid so it could also be contaminated fuel. But it still baffles me that it would start fine before any ideas on this. Also I am suspect that there is a need to hold the key in the start position for it to stay on, could that be the ignition switch or an ignition relay? I am looking for answers so please chime in.

The procedure to check the ignition switch is in the online service manual. Do you get dash lights when you turn to the IG2 position, if you don't it sounds like an ignition switch issue?
Acura Legend Online Service Manual (Page: 1019)

Holding the key to the start position to keep it running could be a main relay problem too, since the power to the fuel pump is supplied differently in the two key positions. If I understand correctly you've already swapped the main relay with a working one though ...

 

[Artillery129]

My bet is on IGINITION and also aren't you grozoping the pressure plate by leaving it in the starting position, aren't you getting that grinding? , think about this, the more fuel you use, (assuming it gums up with a thicker viscosity) the more pressure you lose, therefore less flow and more compensation from fuel pump, but I could just be crazy.., why don't you just put NEW gas in the car, your going to have to do it anyway for proper tuning

 

[Telion]

Yes new gas is part of the plan and I turn the ke back from the start position at the point that I here the grind. Whats grozoping the pressure plate?

 

[Telion]

The procedure to check the ignition switch is in the online service manual. Do you get dash lights when you turn to the IG2 position, if you don't it sounds like an ignition switch issue?
Acura Legend Online Service Manual (Page: 1019)

Holding the key to the start position to keep it running could be a main relay problem too, since the power to the fuel pump is supplied differently in the two key positions. If I understand correctly you've already swapped the main relay with a working one though ...

Ah thank you, a response that demonstrates that you read what has been done so far. Not to knock anyone but it seems like most responses are re-iterations of what I have said. I am wondering if there is a relay that tells the ECU to keep the fuel pump running or the engine going when the car leaves the start position?

 

[Vic Cardenas]

Cam/crank sensor? I think that's about the only thing left, right?

 

[Vic Cardenas]

Maybe switch out the EACV on your wife's car?

 

[Telion]

Well I have been wondering about the alternator because if it were the crank angle sensor it would not have started the first time and it had not been touched. something had to have happened since I fired it up the one time.

 

[Vic Cardenas]

Alternator? You're battery's still charged and your car's cranking.

 

[sap]

Ah thank you, a response that demonstrates that you read what has been done so far. Not to knock anyone but it seems like most responses are re-iterations of what I have said. I am wondering if there is a relay that tells the ECU to keep the fuel pump running or the engine going when the car leaves the start position?

It looks like battery voltage on A7 (FLR1) would stop the fuel pump when the ignition is setting IG1 (not IG2 as I'd said earlier :hide. That's the only control I see the ECU having on the fuel pump other than when giving the starting signal, but the ECU is black magic I have no idea how to deal with :dunno:.

Acura Legend Online Service Manual (Page: 0173)

 

[reboticon]

Yes the car will start and then maybe not start later if the timing is off. I had this experience the first time I did the t-belt and I was 1 tooth off on the passenger head. I verified timing was off by doing a compression test and finding strange readings on the whole passenger bank. In this situation the car would start again with starter fluid into the intake.

It is sometimes hard to tell what you have/haven't tried when dealing with these problems. Is your adaptor harness still in the equation or have you temporarily removed it? I can't remember if its Ford or Honda but one uses a backup reference voltage to the fuel pump as well. Ill look into it.

If you can hear the pump priming in run, I would be less likely to suspect it. What makes you think that its the pump shutting off in start, instead of the injector pulse?

edit: was ford that uses back up fuel pump signal in conjunction with inertia switch. Not honda. my bad. B9 should be starter signal?

 

[Telion]

I know it's not the pump, because it primes, so it's not suspect. The adapter harness is not suspect because I tested it in the wifes car as I did with the main relay. Main suspects are fuel (because starter fluid works) and anything that would cause the car to only stay on while the key is in the start position. I think there has to be a relay somewhere that I popped.

 

[Telion]

I am checking out the new chat room right now and discussing issues real time (excellent addition )

 

[BLKnBLU]

Isn't this the same issue Dv8 has with his EMS?

Check his EMS thread.


The Legend has one main relay that controls fuel and ignition while AEM has a different setup.

 

[Telion]

Maybe switch out the EACV on your wife's car?

I actually switched it just before you came over. does anyone know if you are suppose to get power to the EACV in the on (pre-start position)

 

[Telion]

Isn't this the same issue Dv8 has with his EMS?

Check his EMS thread.

The Legend has one main relay that controls fuel and ignition while AEM has a different setup.

True but the FIC right now is not hooked up

 

[sap]

I am checking out the new chat room right now and discussing issues real time (excellent addition )

Joined in.

When I was looking at the diagram before I missed needing battery voltage on D1 to run the fuel pump, but it doesn't really matter since that would prevent priming too.

Edit: Heh, tonight I was apparently missing that battery voltage is actually shown supplied to D1 on that same diagram, which is exactly why I didn't assign any importance to D1 yesterday :snipe:

 

[1_Hot_Legend_LS]

Joined in.

When I was looking at the diagram before I missed needing battery voltage on D1 to run the fuel pump, but it doesn't really matter since that would prevent priming too.

It sounds like the ignition switch to me...

Unplug the switch from the fuse box, turn the key to on position and check for continuity between:

White --->Yellow

And then

White ---> Black/Yellow stripe

There should be continuity both ways. Now there is a White/Red stripe wire, don't confuse it with the solid white wire.

Here is the breakdown of what color does what:

Solid White: +12v

White/Red Stripe: Accessories

Yellow: Ignition 2

Black/Yellow Stripe: Ignition 1

Black/White Stripe: Starter