[Telion]

Ok I should have the heads back tomorrow, the gaskets and cams by Wednesday or Thursday and the car running again by the weekend. In the meantime I am contemplating doing some more work on getting the water injection done.

 

[BLKnBLU]

It wasn't meant to be a really fast build till I got the turbos rebuilt but since then it has been I want low 11's.

Whoa, this caught my eyes. Very simply it's not that it cant be done and I want you to prove me wrong, but low 11's is extremely farfetched. I don't know you as one who has a lot of drag race experience.
You need a lot of ponies or a lot of traction and weightlessness to achieve 11's in a Legend. Twin turbos especially those small ones aren't going to cut it. Big twins or a big single is the way to go if you want to drag. I would make your goal closer to mid to high 12's than anything else.

Many don't realize how much power, weight and traction plays in running a 1/4 mile. In a Legend it's all working against you. FWD traction, heavy car, not enough whp. The phantom grips good but not strong enough for what its going to take to run 11's. You can strip the car but that only helps a few /10ths. Also I don't see enough usable power in your power band based on this thread for anything faster than a mid 12.

The fastest guy here has run a 12.9 officially with nitrous. A couple others have claimed mid 12's with no proof... there's a reason; its way expensive and talk is cheap..

FYI 11.49 and below requires a cage.

I mean no disrespect, just calling it as I know it. I hope you get her back up and running soon and enjoy it.

 

[3.2legend]

Yea telion i agree with blknblu. low 11's are wayyy out of your league with your setup! Mid 13's maybe if your tuned very wel and can drive even better. Your are going to want to go single turbo or big twins as blknblu put it, and possibly fully build motor and obviously awesome engine management to dip into low 11's. Good luck

 

[DandDEE]

Mid 13's are possible NA with our cars 12s are the hard ones to break... But we will have to see atleast lets give him the benefit of the doubt he pulled this off lets just wait for the numbers and then measure from there...

 

[3.2legend]

Mid 13's are possible NA with our cars 12s are the hard ones to break... But we will have to see atleast lets give him the benefit of the doubt he pulled this off lets just wait for the numbers and then measure from there...

im not knockin telion in any way, because he has done what i havent on the legend, and i respect that very much. but i am being realistic on the number he wants to acheive, that is all. Unlike him, i am used to drag racing, and i know how hard it is to do low 11's and what kind of setup it takes, just as blknblu obviously knows.

 

[DandDEE]

Just lets wait n see maybe if he don't have a good launch we can have Dv8 take a run down the track reaction time is key also all im saying is lets just wait and see..

 

[Telion]

hmm interesting, I too respect the idea that you doubt the possibilities of 11's in a legend. low 11's is a very long term goal. High 11's somewhat medium to long term. But after having driven it I have no doubt that she will surprise the expectations of many once she hits the track. But the bottom line is the proof is in the pudding and I don't even have a spoon yet. Also remember after deciding to go all in I began to build the turbo setup (less the engine, diff and axles) to support well over 14psi. It's only been just under a year give me some time.

PS link in my sig is fixed (for the most part)

 

[Telion]

Whoa, this caught my eyes. Very simply it's not that it cant be done and I want you to prove me wrong, but low 11's is extremely farfetched... Twin turbos especially those small ones aren't going to cut it. Big twins or a big single is the way to go if you want to drag. I would make your goal closer to mid to high 12's than anything else.

... Also I don't see enough usable power in your power band based on this thread for anything faster than a mid 12.

The fastest guy here has run a 12.9 officially with nitrous. A couple others have claimed mid 12's with no proof... there's a reason; its way expensive and talk is cheap..

FYI 11.49 and below requires a cage.

I mean no disrespect, just calling it as I know it. I hope you get her back up and running soon and enjoy it.

Given that 11.49 requires a cage, I will reset my goal to 11's period. Not sure what made me say low11's because my goal is to get in to the 11's.

Having said that I am curious about a few things, and maybe you can assist me in hitting my goal through your answer.

What calculations did you run to not see enough usable power in my powerband based on a twin turbo setup? I have had difficulty finding anything that calculates the power band for twins, and have little understanding of this.

Second, if 12.9 can be had with nitrous at 320whp, what prevents me from breaking into 11's at a lower elevation @ 400 whp.

Third, is there something within this setup that will prevent me from hitting 400whp?

 

[Vic Cardenas]

I agree that 400 BHP can be had with his setup, just not 400whp using those turbos.
C32/C35 seem to range in the 9 to mid 9 compression which is good for around 10psi IMO.
8psi? Wow that's low I was calculating between 10-12psi on pump gas. We'll wait and see, there's plenty of builds in the process around here, I hope at least one of them finishes in this crap economy.

I'm a fan of your build up thus far, but even 400 whp seems a little hard to achieve on pump for such small turbos. Maybe 400whp on race gas, but im still thinking no. I don't see you pushing more than 7psi per side right? Not saying you wont make what you hope for, because we really wont know until you do it, but just seems unlikely with your current setup.
500whp, your going to need completely different turbos (bigger), not to mention the possibility of a built engine. Either way you'll probably make more TQ than hp. 530 bhp is where Chris is right now and hes made a lot of necessary mods to get there, especially to the top-end. dropping that into a legend some how would probably yield around 450whp. See what i'm saying?

I'm sure it will be fun either way

 

[Telion]

^ not sure what you (he) means by that, I am hitting 8 psi right now. It is almost like when they said I couldn't run my car past 7k . what about .6.5k at 8psi? I can tell you that I know what it feels like, and that 2nd gear is really short in that circumstance.

 

[Vic Cardenas]

That's just what he said earlier in this thread.

 

[3.2legend]

hmm interesting, I too respect the idea that you doubt the possibilities of 11's in a legend. low 11's is a very long term goal. High 11's somewhat medium to long term. But after having driven it I have no doubt that she will surprise the expectations of many once she hits the track. But the bottom line is the proof is in the pudding and I don't even have a spoon yet. Also remember after deciding to go all in I began to build the turbo setup (less the engine, diff and axles) to support well over 14psi. It's only been just under a year give me some time.

PS link in my sig is fixed (for the most part)

Bro i hope you prove me wrong more than anything. I would love to see a legend hit consistent low to mid 11's. I love our cars, even though my majority of experience is with Honda's lighter weight products. I love my Legend and very much respect and appreciate what your doing for our cars. most people dont even know our cars exist. But you start getting a few turbocharged legends running around that pull on porsches and such, and people will start to take notice, lol. Good luck man and keep pushing the envelope, hope everything goes well and i hope you can reach 11's with your setup :thumbsup:

 

[Telion]

Thanks I appreciate it. And I admit my knowledge is limited and I have never been behind the wheel of a car of an 11 second magnitude but to me that is no reason not to set a really high goal for myself, after it is why my car has what's in it now in the first place. I remember looking back at the times I would pop my hood and question myself as to how I could fit two turbos under it let alone one.
----------------------------------------------
Car weight:3400
Wheel horsepower:400
1/4 Mile elapsed time = 11.887820

Car weight:3400
Wheel horsepower:320
1/4 Mile elapsed time = 12.805766

A 17% driveline loss is assumed for flywheel HP.
1/4 Mile ET Calculator
----------------------------------------------
Now I know these are not accurate but they seem reasonable so I would not say this is too far fetched.

 

[93LegendSedan]

Wow I've been out of the loop in here for way too long.

I missed so much.

I hate to be that guy, but at the sake of me not having to do tons of reading/searching, can someone give me some cliffs of how and what happened?

I think last time I was reading in here nothing had happened. Now I see twin turbos are in!! First off, awesome job Telion. Secondly, if a quick rundown of how it all worked out and where it's out now, I would love a summary to get me caught up. I hope you don't mind.

Again, awesome job and I commend you for all your effort and time you put into this.

 

[Telion]

Ok Turbos are in, ran ok (ok being boosted 8 psi and pulled quite nice) without tuning but still not great, threw CEL, and would pin AFR at 9.6 at point of CEL, pulled heads found out I forgot to hook up the left knock sensor, sold reground cams broke off a few bolts in the heads, took heads to get bolts removed heads getting picked up tomorrow, stock RLL heads going back in. Some doubt setup will break into 11's. I am optimistic. Hope to have it back together by the weekend. forgot to mention that I did blow off and run over the lower intake pipe, replacement parts and better couplers on their way.

Oh yeah thank you :angel:

 

[l4zy415]

:rofl: The lower intake pipe fell off? Damn dude, gotta tighten your things lol.

 

[Telion]

lol, it was tight just not tight enough. it's actually a common thing if they are not T-bolted, so I prefer to say it was blown off lol, it was pretty funny though I could not stop laughing because I knew it was tightened down and it reinforced my feelings of the turbos working well .

 

[BLKnBLU]

1/4 mile & horsepower calculators aside, when you get to the track and make you're first pass youll understand what needs to be done.
I dont want to continue typing in any negative fashion because I respect how far youve come.

 

[reboticon]

The reason 11s would be difficult is FWD launches. If you get your 60 foot low enough, you WILL be able to break into 11s. Its gonna be all about initial traction and launch RPM, i believe that is what they are trying to say. Thats the reason it will be tough anyway. I , for one, think 11s is extremely possible, though low 11s may be pushing it. Even with compression in the 9s you could go higher than 10psi with race gas, so long as you get it o-ringed. I think you could run 12 or even 14psi safely with a proper tune. Ive seen a D series civic with over 9:1 compression manage 20psi for a couple dozen runs. Then it blew a hole in a cylinder.

 

[Telion]

I appreciate and certainly respect both of your comments, thank you. I hope that launch control helps with the traction issue, I will try to work through the best place to set it before I get to the track. Also after having driven the car I know there should be enough lag time to assist with this which is different than I even thought. But I am yet to launch it so I guess there is still a bit of an unknown there. Merely being able to run as well as it did at 8 psi I too feel comfortable that she will be fine at 10-14 but as stated I got to work to that, and work it out on a dyno.