[GrumpySteelMan]

Grumps your train of thought (in a much more scientific manner than mine) is the same as mine. I think a small set of twins will be just fine for now, and I will upgrade upon continued success, this is a learning process for me.

This is the only reason I'm so excited to help you out. You know what you are/aren't doing and you've got a reason for it. Jesus Christ man, are you a genius or something?!?!

A couple things anyone know a great place online for 0 gauge wire? how many feet I will need to get the battery to teh trunk for + & - terminals?

Welding supply stores tend to have heavy gauge wire for cheaper than anyone else. I'd ask for 1/0 gauge (pronounced one-aught). You should only run the + wire to the front, I'd run heavy grounds to the chassis, front and back, a long ground run will be counterproductive. I mean chassis, as in the hydroformed frame rails, not the sheetmetal in the trunk.

 

[Telion]

This is a perfect illustration for my question, because I think I over thought ot forgot something regarding the X-pipe. Why would I put the X-pipe be between where the exhaust enters the turbos vs. between where the exhaust exits the turbos and makes its path toward the muffler(s). The reason I ask is because I would think that the pressure is equalized in the intercooler before it enters the intake manifold (which is essentially a y-pipe)?
Also putting up additional pics of the piping (other than the intake) is going to be futile until I know whether or not the 350 headers will work.

 

[Telion]

This is the only reason I'm so excited to help you out. You know what you are/aren't doing and you've got a reason for it. Jesus Christ man, are you a genius or something?!?!

lol, not at all just a great deal of reading, listening and understanding that there are things I do not yet understand which leads to seeking answers to the questions I have.

Welding supply stores tend to have heavy gauge wire for cheaper than anyone else. I'd ask for 1/0 gauge (pronounced one-aught). You should only run the + wire to the front, I'd run heavy grounds to the chassis, front and back, a long ground run will be counterproductive. I mean chassis, as in the hydroformed frame rails, not the sheetmetal in the trunk.

Lol, case and point to my previous reply, I had not thought of that and that I should increase my grounding points during this process, thank you! and agreed sheet metal grounding sucks. A local car audio company wants 7.00 per foot for 1/0 gauge. I think Ebay will have to save the day again.

 

[GrumpySteelMan]

Why would I put the X-pipe be between where the exhaust enters the turbos vs. between where the exhaust exits the turbos and makes its path toward the muffler(s). The reason I ask is because I would think that the pressure is equalized in the intercooler before it enters the intake manifold (which is essentially a y-pipe)?

Sure the intake side can't help but be equalized. My suggestion was the x-pipe before the turbos to balance bank to bank. I posted about it already, but this is to keep all the cylinders filling equally, by encouraging them to empty equally. Also from a thermodynamic standpoint feeding two turbos with six cylinders shared is better than one turbo being fed by three each, but I can't recall why at the moment...I'm pretty buzzed right now.

You REALLY REALLY don't need an x-pipe at all though, especially not after the turbos. Any gains to the x-pipe will be gleaned pre-turbo. Trying to balance the flow post-turbo (post restriction) won't make you any power.

So if you're taking my advice to the max you'd run left and right manifold to the X-pipe and then the turbos immediately off the x-pipe minimizing pipe length and distance from the head.

If you had a little self-preservation and liked to keep your sanity intact, then I would run each turbo individually off one manifold each and simply y-pipe their exhaust outlets together to a single 3" exhaust pipe.

Ideally I would go whichever route kept your pipes the shortest. I would also wrap those pipes and/or have them coated, and add heat shields, since they'll probably get over 1000 degrees on a daily basis, and the more heat kept in the pipes and away from the passenger cabin and all your plastic and rubber parts, the happier you'll be and the more efficient your turbo system will turn out.

 

[GrumpySteelMan]

lol, not at all just a great deal of reading, listening and understanding that there are things I do not yet understand which leads to seeking answers to the questions I have.

Well you're:

1. Running twins because you have them, and you want to
2. Open to people who've done crazier shit giving you advice
3. You aren't a cock when people disagree with you

That's pretty smart, shit I don't think I'm that smart.

Lol, case and point to my previous reply, I had not thought of that and that I should increase my grounding points during this process, thank you! and agreed sheet metal grounding sucks. A local car audio company wants 7.00 per foot for 1/0 gauge. I think Ebay will have to save the day again.

$3.50/ft is fair, if not cheap for 1/0.

 

[GrumpySteelMan]

Why the 350Z headers anyway? I mean for giggles, why not, but unless the pipe routing is going to be better for you I don't know why you aren't sticking with the stock units...equal length headers aren't anywhere near as important on turbo cars.

 

[Telion]

Thanks Grumps, and gotcha. PS thtowing the X-pipe in the mix was just what I needed and it helps ed in a couple of areas actually. Now brace yourselves as I am either going to pul this off or have sever heat soak in the engine bay. I too now am a bit buzzed but I work and play pool well this way lol. Ok I am going to need to ceramic coat, heat wrap and vent my hood lol, then throw in some purple ice by royal purple. But here we are picture hot lavas setup shifted forward toward the bumper the up between the radiator and the engine. Also bare in mind that I had to lean stuff up against things and that the final build will not be this way. I thought ok what I need to do is beable to create a common element that will work whether or not the custom headers are a success and include the X-pipe and wahlah we have this. ok what you cannot see is that the two exhaust routes will go to a Y pipe that will go up and over the drivers side axle and out the back, and that the X-pipe as before will cross over ie the passenger side (custom header or not) will x-over to the turbo on the opposite side. If you get this and are a photoshop genius please attempt to illustrate. I also removed soon to re-locate the windshield washer resevoir. possibly for a water injection system (more on that later one step at a time) yes I know need internal piping heat temps high. Ok here are the pics, think everything possible to keep outside heat pipe down and that there will be better spacing between items that will burn and that I am going to switch my upper and lower radiator hose out for something more resistant and slightly relocated to avoid heat. Lastly would it be a good idea to isolate the radiator? and yes I will be using turbo hotside blankets.

Also as stated previously I need more elbows and will need to do custom flanges to mount to the turbos too.

 

[Jimbob22]

Holy fecal matter it just might work.

 

[Dethred]

That's what I'm talking about!!!:thumbsup: I had to force myself to not hit the caps lock!

PS: you just have to worry about melting the belts and lower radiator hose.

 

[Telion]

Lol thank you I will try to put a setup illustration together tomorrow unless someone accurately beats me to it

 

[Jimbob22]

I may have missed somthing here, but wouldn't combining the turbos into a Y instad of an x have been more efficent? on inlet into the intercooler and then straight into the intake? and less pipe.

 

[Telion]

I may have missed somthing here, but wouldn't combining the turbos into a Y instad of an x have been more efficent? on inlet into the intercooler and then straight into the intake? and less pipe.

Well I suppose it could be easier but then each turbo would be joined and in this styple of setup would really defeat the purpose of running twins because they would be no different than one large single turbo. So my intent was to keep them seperated till they exited the intercooler. But I don't think it would be more efficient unless I used a larger size pipe at the y-point that would compensate. Actually without doing so and with the same size piping it would be more restrictive. Especially if I decide to increase the size of the turbos. Grumps had explained the importance of the x-pipe just a couple posts back and Hotlava had experienced it's importance first hand. so I will buy that. The least piping (so far) would be one happy medium sized turbo; but that's not the goal here :2cool:.

 

[Telion]

Does anyone have a set of OBX headers that are not yet installed

 

[jkurl]

Does anyone have a set of OBX headers that are not yet installed

yes, what do you need. you've got pm.

 

[reboticon]

You're still confused...unless the mimicry is that the turbo system would suck ass until both turbos spooled.

I Loled at that.

Yeah actually I understood that it would be woefully inefficient, and suck ass. I was curious as to what exactly would happen. I gotta be able to completely visualize all variables and there effects on each other to gain real conceptual knowledge. So i ask a lot of questions, hope i don't annoy:bowdown: Im a bit of a knowledge addict but we can smell our own and this thread is full of em.

Anyway, the rest of your post cleared it up for me, thanks.

 

[reboticon]

So if you're taking my advice to the max you'd run left and right manifold to the X-pipe and then the turbos immediately off the x-pipe minimizing pipe length and distance from the head.

In this scenario, which of the two pipe lengths is most important. The pipe from the manifold to the X, or the pipe from the X to the turbo?

I would think it would be best if the pipe from the manifold to the X was the shorter of the two, to aid cylinder evacution?

@Telion

SummitRacing has a battery relocation kit with cables and shield for cheap.

 

[Dethred]

Considering the amount of (or lack of) space in the engine bay, putting in an X-pipe won't be making things better on that front. With the way he was mounting the turbos in his latest update, the manifold piping length can't be much different than a few inches between the two. As far as 3 cylinders powering one turbo, how do Porsche's, Supras, etc work? Granted they're higher end motors designed for charged air, but I am pretty sure those tiny turbos won't lag a whole lot more than a giant single turbo.

 

[Telion]

In this scenario, which of the two pipe lengths is most important. The pipe from the manifold to the X, or the pipe from the X to the turbo?

I would think it would be best if the pipe from the manifold to the X was the shorter of the two, to aid cylinder evacution?

Considering the amount of (or lack of) space in the engine bay, putting in an X-pipe won't be making things better on that front. With the way he was mounting the turbos in his latest update, the manifold piping length can't be much different than a few inches between the two.

Given the lack of space there are really only two applicable locations, under the tranny, or behind the radiator, as in the pic. Personally (like a person who chooses who wins a game based on the team who has the coolest color uniform lol) I chose to go behind the radiator. My (ir)rational is that it will give each individual turbo a chance to spool uninterupted of the other before hitting the collector then as it hits the collector everything can even out before hitting the turbos without a chance to (now I am shooting out my "A") increase variation in pressure due to inequal post collector length. Even though it is closer to the turbos it is what takes place at the point of the collector of the x-pipe (not after) that matters most provided the distance and variation in distance from the collector is minimal. Which leads me to the one thing I do like about this particular X-pipe. It has a wider body in the collector area allowing for the equalization to take place appose to one that has a collection area that has much less volume where the airflow paths cross. I have a surreal vision of two streams of water that join in a small pool then continue on through two more streams of water that exit the pool (ahh) vs. two streams of water crossing paths. Granted this is a science and I am shooting ducks in the dark while learning as I go.

@Telion

SummitRacing has a battery relocation kit with cables and shield for cheap.

Thanks, I will check it out.

 

[Dethred]

At what point will the theoretical benefit of the X-pipe be out-weighed by the used space, extra piping length between combustion and turbo, and price of the piping (etc).


The idea of twins where they are currently mounted is ergonomics, closer-to-equal manifold length. The whole benefit of having twins in such a location is similar exhaust dynamics on each cylinder bank. Having two turbos on one side of the engine bay, or a single turbo on one side was presenting up to and over a foot of difference between the exhaust manifolds. If the exhaust manfolds can be routed between the valve covers and wheel well, then you can probably get the exhaust length to within few centimeters of each other. I would think that space would be better suited for a Y-junction from the turbos' exhaust to be sent out one 3" pipe over the driver's side axle as previously discussed.

 

[legendfire]

Tel. i really hope you didnt buy 350z headers. when i suggested it i was talking about aftermarket turbo manifolds for the 350z, not actual 350z headers. cuz the last pictures you put up were of headers....