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well... are you going to get a HID retrofit kit or no?
if you get a retrofit kit then you still need a harness upgrade... some will argue no but its just to be on the safe side. HID ballasts use 35w average but when it starts up it uses alot more...

to answer your question on HIR bulbs...
HIR bulbs uses 55w.... and no they dont cost $100 or anywhere near that.

http://hirheadlights.com/
sell them for $30 and theres a seller on ebay selling it for $30 also

you wont need to upgrade your harness if you use HIR bulbs.

but since they are brighter than stock it might still give you glare.

but if you put aftermarket 80w or 100w bulbs in then you will need to upgrade the harness.

no one on this board to my knowledge has HIR bulbs cause everyone either goes with HID or projector retrofits

and that email daniel stern sent you... its all bs

i'll be damned if i had to pay $100 for a harness kit that i can make myself or buy for $36 dollars.

theres absolutely nothing complicated about our lighting system... theres 4 bulbs. and a switch

it seems as though you dont believe me but i have a harness kit with relays and 6 plug-ins. and the whole nine yards....

daniel stern is just going to probably send you the same harness that i sent you a link of from www.eautoworks.com

if you feel like it... burn your money on his harness and take a picture of it for me.

daniel stern is just making something simple more complicated than it seems... and its working because you're believeing him.
 
Discussion starter · #23 ·
Well, I will be the first Legend with HIR bulbs, and will have them in about 6 weeks.

Its not that I didn't believe you, I do. Its just that this guy is local and its one stop shopping which is convenient. I may have paid a bit more, but convenience has its price.

Thanks for all your assistance. I appreciate the time taken to help me out.
 
Discussion starter · #25 ·
I considered a retrofit too until I read this. I dont think this is BS

An HID kit consists of HID ballasts and bulbs for "retrofitting" into a halogen headlamp. Often, these products are advertised using the name of a reputable lighting company ("Real Philips kit! Real Osram kit! Real Hella kit!") to try to give the potential buyer the illusion of legitimacy. Fact: While some of the components in these kits are sometimes manufactured by the companies mentioned, the components aren't being put to their designed or intended use. Reputable companies like Philips, Osram, Hella, etc. NEVER endorse this kind of "retrofit" usage of their products.

Halogen headlamps and HID headlamps require very different optics to produce a safe and effective—not to mention legal—beam pattern. How come? Because of the very different characteristics of the two kinds of light source.

A halogen bulb has a cylindrical light source: the glowing filament. The space immediately surrounding the cylinder of light is completely dark, and so the sharpest contrast between bright and dark is along the edges of the cylinder of light. The ends of the filament cylinder fade from bright to dark. An HID bulb, on the other hand, has a crescent-shaped light source -- the arc. It's crescent-shaped because as it passes through the space between the two electrodes, its heat causes it to try to rise. The space immediately surrounding the crescent of light glows in layers...the closer to the crescent of light, the brighter the glow. The ends of the arc crescent are the brightest points, and immediately beyond these points is completely dark, so the sharpest contrast between bright and dark is at the ends of the crescent of light.

When designing the optics (lens and/or reflector) for a lamp, the characteristics of the light source are *the* driving factor around which everything else must be engineered. If you go and change the light source, you've done the equivalent of putting on somebody else's eyeglasses: You can probably make them fit on your face OK, but you won't see properly.

Now, what about those "retrofit" jobs in which the beam cutoff still appears sharp? Don't be fooled; it's an error to judge a beam pattern solely by its cutoff. In many lamps, especially the projector types, the cutoff will remain the same regardless of what light source is behind it. Halogen bulb, HID capsule, cigarette lighter, firefly, hold it up to the sun—whatever. That's because of the way a projector lamp works. The cutoff is simply the projected image of a piece of metal running side-to-side behind the lens. Where the optics come in is in distributing the light under the cutoff. And, as with all other automotive lamps (and, in fact, all optical instruments), the optics are calculated based not just on where the light source is within the lamp (focal length) but also the specific photometric characteristics of the light source...which parts of it are brighter, which parts of it are darker, where the boundaries of the light source are, whether the boundaries are sharp or fuzzy, the shape of the light source, and so forth.

As if the optical mismatch weren't reason enough to drop the idea of "retrofitting" an HID bulb where a halogen one belongs—and it is reason enough!—there are even more reasons why not to do it. Here are some of them:

The only available arc capsules have a longitudinal arc (arc path runs front to back) on the axis of the bulb, but many popular halogen headlamp bulbs, such as 9004, 9007, H3 and H12, use a filament that is transverse (side-to-side) and/or offset (not on the axis of the bulb) central axis of the headlamp reflector). In this case, it is impossible even to roughly approximate the position and orientation of the filament with a "retrofit" HID capsule. Just because your headlamp might use an axial-filament bulb, though, doesn't mean you've jumped the hurdles—the laws of optical physics don't bend even for the cleverest marketing department, nor for the catchiest HID "retrofit" kit box.

The latest gimmick is HID arc capsules set in an electromagnetic base so that they shift up and down or back and forth. These are being marketed as "dual beam" kits that claim to address the loss of high beam with fixed-base "retrofits" in place of dual-filament halogen bulbs. (A cheaper variant of this is one that uses a fixed HID bulb with a halogen bulb strapped or glued to the side of it...yikes!) What you wind up with is two poorly-formed beams, at best. The reason the original equipment market has not adopted the movable-capsule designs they've been playing with since the mid 1990s is because it is impossible to control the arc position accurately so it winds up in the same position each and every time.

In the original-equipment field, there are single-capsule dual-beam systems appearing ("BiXenon", etc.), but these all rely on a movable optical shield, or movable reflector—the arc capsule stays in one place. The Original Equipment engineers have a great deal of money and resources at their disposal, and if a movable capsule were a practical way to do the job, they'd do it. The "retrofit" kits certainly don't address this problem anywhere near satisfaction. And even if they did, remember: Whether a fixed or moving-capsule "retrofit" is contemplated, solving the arc-position problem and calling it good is like going to a hospital with two broken ribs, a sprained ankle and a crushed toe and having the nurse say "Well, you're free to go home now, we've put your ankle in a sling!" Focal length (arc/filament positioning) is only just ONE issue out of several.

The most dangerous part of the attempt to "retrofit" Xenon headlamps is that sometimes you get a deceptive and illusory "improvement" in the performance of the headlamp. The performance of the headlamp is perceived to be "better" because of the much higher level of foreground lighting (on the road immediately in front of the car). However, the beam patterns produced by this kind of "conversion" virtually always give less distance light, and often an alarming lack of light where there's meant to be a relative maximum in light intensity. The result is the illusion that you can see better than you actually can, and that's not safe.

It's tricky to judge headlamp beam performance without a lot of knowledge, a lot of training and a lot of special equipment, because subjective perceptions are very misleading. Having a lot of strong light in the foreground, that is on the road close to the car and out to the sides, is very comforting and reliably produces a strong impression of "good headlights". The problem is that not only is foreground lighting of decidedly secondary importance when travelling much above 30 mph, but having a very strong pool of light close to the car causes your pupils to close down, worsening your distance vision...all the while giving you this false sense of security. This is to say nothing of the massive amounts of glare to other road users and backdazzle to you, the driver, that results from these "retrofits".

HID headlamps also require careful weatherproofing and electrical shielding because of the high voltages involved. These unsafe "retrofits" make it physically possible to insert an HID bulb where a halogen bulb belongs, but this practice is illegal and dangerous, regardless of claims by these marketers that their systems are "beam pattern corrected" or the fraudulent use of established brand names to try to trick you into thinking the product is legitimate. In order to work correctly and safely, HID headlamps must be designed from the start as HID headlamps.

What about the law, what does it have to say on the matter? In virtually every first-world country, HID "retrofits" into halogen headlamps are illegal. They're illegal clear across Europe and in all of the many countries that use European ECE headlight regulations. They're illegal in the US and Canada. Some people dismiss this because North American regulations, in particular, are written in such a manner as to reject a great many genuinely good headlamps. Nevertheless, on the particular count of HID "retrofits" into halogen headlamps, the world's regulators and engineers agree: DON'T!

The only safe and legitimate HID retrofit is one that replaces the entire headlamp—that is lens, reflector, bulb...the WHOLE shemozzle—with optics designed for HID usage. In the aftermarket, it is possible to get clever with the growing number of available products, such as Hella's modular projectors available in HID or halogen, and fabricate your own brackets and bezels, or to modify an original-equipment halogen headlamp housing to contain optical "guts" designed for HID usage. But just putting an HID bulb where a halogen one belongs is bad news all around.
 
bl420.. thanks for providing a link to a product that WILL work at a low cost.

Stu funny that you spent $98 for a part that costs $36, even though it was spelled out to you 25? times?

I am to understand you paid $98 for the harness? But you did not get the 80 watt bulbs, so the harness is unnecessary, you got something akin to Silverstars -- hyped 55w bulbs promising yet again to be wonderful.

Oh well..

He is right that HIDs are illegal in stock halogen. I have been posting that in nearly every thread on that topic since I've been here. I can't stand when people disregard other people on the road to light the road in front of them. The only real way to go is a projector retrofit and removing the lenses.
 
Discussion starter · #27 ·
anarch, HIR bulbs are something relatively new and slightly different from 9005/9006 halogens.

As you know, there are many different solutions to getting more light on the road. Some are expensive, some are illegal, some take a lot of time and patience and some are completely ineffective and some actually REDUCE visability and blind other drivers

Yes, I do believe Daniel Stern and expect I will be end up with a lighting solution that will satisfy me completely. I am not sure what qualifications you have in this area, but I / we are all here to learn and have fun so I thank you for your input too.
 
I bought the HIR2/9012 (9006 equalivent) bulbs for my '06 Civic yesterday from Bill Fox at hirheadlights.com for $64.95 shipped. That's cheaper than 1 9006 PIAA Super Plasma and these are supposedly genuine Toshiba bulbs which are the same as OEM in Vipers and new Maximas. All the research I've found is very positive & has them rated at 3600K. Not quite OEM HID Kelvin but pretty close and a hell of a lot cheaper.

A pretty informative article from the BMWCCA webpage can be found here. If these work as hoped, I'll probably go back and get the HIR1/9011 high beams to match.

PS: I have a heavy-duty 9006 harness on the HIDs in my Legend and I paid $75 for it from autolamps.com. Maybe I overpaid for it but I know their sh!t works and compared to replacing a $800 stock headlamp harness, $75 is cheap insurance. Can't put a price on peace of mind.
 
Discussion starter · #29 ·
stevieray, I too decided on just trying the low beams, but decided to also replace the wiring too cause its old and I figured maybe its part of my problem. All my bulbs are leass than a year old and my lenses/reflectors are perfect, yet when I turn on my high beams, its really not that much brighter down the road !

Without a doubt my Legend is the best car I have ever owned, but it sure has the worst headlamps. Hope we both get good results from the HIR2/9012
 
bl420 said:
Image


jk... would like to see pics though. its going to be a while before i finish my projector retrofits soo... im thinking of buying HIR bulbs in the meantime.
Same here. I'd love to see some pics. This would be something I would try before spending the money on HIDs.
 
Stu, sorry if I came across as an a*sshole, that is because 1) I am and 2) I am skeptical of anything but HID projector retrofits. With 55w/60w bulbs its still just a bulb in the stock housing in the stock lense behind the stock glass. It ain't gonna make 10% of the difference a real projector makes, no matter what you do. You can polish a turd, but it's still a turd.
 
Discussion starter · #34 ·
arnach said:
Stu, sorry if I came across as an a*sshole, that is because 1) I am and 2) I am skeptical of anything but HID projector retrofits.
Its ok, you came across as a skeptic, and I admit I am having some second thoughts if this is going to be worth the trouble and even a noticable worthwhile thing, but I am trying anyway.

stevieray, you be the judge and let everyone know .... I am keeping my fingers crossed.
 
I will. I thought about HIDs for the Civic but the cutoff is so good with the halogens I thought, "Why fix it if it ain't broke?" Plus, I agree with Arnach on the HID/projector issue and I've got other mods that I want to do other than HIDs.
 
Verdict is in...

Installed the HIR 9012 low beam bulbs yesterday and while it's not the jump from stock to HID, it's certainly better than ANY halogen bulb out there. Definitely better than stock and a helluva lot cheaper than PIAA's. The guy that sells them (Bill Fox), really knows his stuff. The bulbs can be found at www.finemotoring.com. You have to trim the top tab to make them fit in a 9006 mounting but for the '06 Civic, I had to shave the barrel (the part right underneath the glass but above the O-ring) because the hole in a Civic housing has a ridge in it and the barrel on a 9012 HIR is oh-so-slightly bigger than a 9006. They would probably fit in a G2 just fine.

My advice would be to try them out. I may end up trying the 9011 HIR (high beams) and modifying them to fit in the lows by shaving the tab on the inside of the plug, just like a 9005 to 9006 conversion. Looks like that if you trim the top tab (he marks them for cutting for you) and take the O-ring off of the old bulbs and slide them down to the base of the barrel up against the flange, they fit beautifully in a 9006 mounting. IMO, at $29.95/ea., it's hard to go wrong.
 
Discussion starter · #38 ·
i decided to change my order and forget the harness and relay and just order the high and low beam HIR bulbs ..... think this will work ok once I trim the HIR bulbs to fit ?
 
I am also considering 100/80W bulbs with the harness or HIR bulbs... anyone have pics?... and HIR bulbs are $30 for one, or for a pair... cuz if its for one.. $120 for high and low is quite expensive
 
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